Jake Riesen

Lets here team name and how many advanced.

Lets here team name and how many you had advance.

On a serious note though you have done a lot for the sport and even though I rarly agree with you I do admire your commitment. Also I do not want to start an arguement over something trivial.

Yeah I gave myself a little pat on the back no more so then you trying to claim Carroll wrestlers did not get better in their wrestling room they got better in Garret RTC's, but I don't want to ruffle any more feathers especially before sectionals. We all deserve pats on the back every once in a while I just do mine with more class.

Sure I have ruffled a few feathers, but I also have helped start some really positive things on the site. I wouldn't say I single handidly kept the state tournament going for next year, but I did help out quite a bit with the organization. I also started over 100 team petition to keep the tournament. Putting pressure on the coaches association has also helped develope more interest in the association and the number of coaches going to participate is rising. By the time the spring clinic comes arround I am pretty sure mainy more coaches will be getting involved. Sorry if you take Terry Tipton Telling The Truth as being aggressive but I hope you can see through that and see that I do care about the sport.

I have never said there isn't a wrestling culture down there, but to try and argue that a school of 250 kids can produce 9 straight non classed state titles without hand picking their wrestlers is where I draw the line. If we want to look at a similiar area we can go to Adams county. Adams county has Belmont, Adam Central, and South Adams. All of these schools have been doing the right things for years and are either starting to reep the benifits or have been reeping the benifits for some time now. I would say that Adam Central and South Adams have arguably one of their best teams in recent memory and Belmont is a touch down in Belmont standards. Even when Belmont is not at their best they still are able to beat the smaller elete schools. It will be this way 99% of the time. If two schools are doing the right things then it comes down to who has more talent to choose from. At schools of close to equal size this should and will flucuate year to year. When you see a team like Matre Dei win 9 straight championships in an all division tourney you know they are hand picking wrestlers. That doesn't mean they are recruiting, but it does show that they are picking from those who want to attend their school. So yeah I think it is ok to say they have 5 A talent. Maybe they only have 250 boys, but they get the choice from the best in the area. I really don't care what you do, but to act like you are better because you outwork everyone is a myth. That is not saying you don't work hard or don't deserve your state titles, but it does say everything is not equal in the Indiana small or medium sized schools in football, basketball, wrestling, baseball or any other sport catholic schools dominate in. Thats also not taking anything away from the individual atheletes or their choice to go to these schools. I don't blame anyone for attending these institutions, but don't expect the average man not to call you out, Terry Tipton

Crossfaceking- Your idea that Matre Dei doesn't have an advantage and trying to say they just out work everyone is the foolish statement. It is also a slap in the face to all the good small school programs to say that. We can agree to disagree, but being able to hand pick your talent from a well populated area seems to be a distinct advantage. You are able to receive 5a talent with a 2a name. So no I am not a complete fool I am just not someone who buys into Matre Dei just outworks everyone. They probably work as hard as anyone, but they get to hand pick their wresters.

Trajan Pride I respect you for at least being honest that catholic schools have a distinct advantage. So if you have this advantage why do they not want to move up. Don't they see that it is unfair for a school of 250 to be able to hand pick who they allow in thier school to wrestle?

Sounds like you have had 2 of Reitz best wrestlers. Not saying you recruited them they probably came to you, but its still a distinct advantage other small schools do not have. You don't see Adam Central and South Adams getting a ton of Belmont wrestlers coming in and wanting to enroll. If you do it is more then likely a move in to the district.

I think it is never going to be a non issue. That being said I think it is less of an issue in the bigger divisions. Smaller schools typically do not get a huge surge in recruiting. So when you have catholic schools are under the label of a small school and have the ability to hand pick talent it is a lot different then when a bigger catholic school is able to hand pick atheletes. Thats the same reason catholic schools are typically more dominate in the lower divisions in football. Sure they win a lot in the bigger divisions, but it is a lot closer because hand picking to compete against big schools is a lot different hen hand picking against smaller schools. the wrestling dude, My past two or three post have been about hand picking talent. In my opinion that is still a distinct advantage that smaller schools do not have so I will stick by my statistics. IF all things are the same as far as enrollment levels Matre Dei would not be near as dominate. If they had a regular district then they would not have near the success. Yes they would be good because they do the right things, but no they would not have won 9 championships in a row with 250 boys. They probably wouldn't have one any.

Yeah that is a distinct possibility, but it would be a rarity for that to happen. Adam Central and South Adamshave some really nice squads right now, but they are not near the top of the 2a heap. Not saying that will never be the case, but going at Matre Dei would still be their best bet most years. So I will lay off the recruiting thing, but can we all be straight up and tell it like it is for a second. Matre Dei does have a distinct advantage over the other smaller schools. I would even go furthur and say they have a distinct advantage over most of the 2 A schools. They haven't won a title in a few years so I am completly fine with whatever class they go. Year in and year out they have talent above all of the 1a squads though. It will be interesting to see what they do, I am guessing 1A because of their past, but who know I could be wrong.

Teams are allowed to bump up on their own in other sports just not many do. Not many other sports have small teams as dominate as Matre Dei. I am against a forced bump up, but it would be nice to see a team of their caliber step up. If they don't it will still be a great tourney and I am totally behind it. For the most part I like the way things have progressed with the coaches association, and I think this will be bigger and better then the current format. So all and all I have nothing to complain about.

I have never said anything bad about there program, but there are a lot of teams doing things right. If you took Matre Dei out of the mix and moved there coaching staff else where they still would have an awsome team. It just would not dominate like they do now. They wouldn't win 9 straight in any division. They would have a few though because they do things right. They have a great youth program and quality coaches and parents, but to say they don't have an advantage is undermining great smaller school teams who also do things right. So sorry if I offended anyone, but calling people names and acting like your better then everyone is going to get people angry.

We probably had an anomoly a few years back when one 1 a team had 3 high state placers and a losing team record. Indian Creek I believe. Is there anyway that you could do a simple check of the teams that are near the top and make sure they have a nice winning percentage within thier division from the previous year.

I am sorry had to grab something to eat, but I can tell you one thing if you took all of Matre Dei's coaches and equipment and staff and moved them to anywhere else in the state they would not be near as dominate. South Adams and Adam Central are the top of the 1 a chart and I can bet you there practices are not much different then anything Matre Dei is doing yet they can not compete with Matre Dei why is that? Maybe because Matre Dei fields an allstar team of local talent every year. Maybe you do not recruit in the sense of going up and telling parents they should get their kids enrolled, but it is obvious that Matre Dei hand picks their talent, and since they pick wrestlers from all over the area isn't that an unfair advantage? If you say you don't do that then I am going back to my statistical arguement, because wrestling is not a sport where teams reinvent the wheel.

I have never once said they don't have a tremendous program, but I will stand by my statements it is statistically impossible to have the talent they have with 200-250 kids to pick from without those kids either being recruited or hand selected. So what class are they going?

Me to but I will play along with it. So to Matre Dei fans: If I can agree with you that there is no recruiting going on can you agree with me that statistics do not lie and it is statistically impossible to do what you are doing with 200-250 kids with a completly level playing field? If so why haven't you declared a moveup to face better competition? My ultimate arguement is to make this the best tournament possible. I think Matre Dei and all there success no matter how they got there is an exception and we as a wrestling community just want to know what class you are going. 1a 2a or 3a.

Like I said 30% of your wrestlers are not recruited that still leaves 70%. Statistics do not lie. So if your going to come on hear and try and say that every year Matre Dei happens to have several quality 103's 112's and 119's every year I am not going to listen the statistics don't lie.

Ha probalby taking the forfeits for all the times you cheated them in the past. Enough of that though, I am a baby because you cheat to win and i call you on it? You have nothing to say when the facts are against you. I wouldn't normally care, but someone called me an idiot so I feel I have every right to back myself up. So untill you can tell me how you defy all statistical probability then I am just going to take it that Matre Dei admittedly recruits for wrestling and football purposes. I really don't care that you recruit a lot of teams do it I just wish the school would fess up to it and be men everyonce in a while. And that ladies and gentlemen is how you beat several loud mouth cheaters at a debate. You simple bring up the truth and they can do nothing.

Yeah 90% is a touch of an over statement. I would say 30% tops. That means the other 70% are either bused in or stolen from other programs like Reitz or Memorial. Again I have no reason to argue with you. The numbers do not lie. There is no mathmatical way that a school of 200 to 250 boys can produce that type of talent on a year in and year out bases. To say otherwise is to spit in the face of mathmaticians everywhere and you don't want to do that protractors can be sharp.

Thanks for clearing my statistics up it proves my point more. Don't get me wrong there are some family names in the bunch, but lets get real for a second. It is statistically impossible for a team of that size with an equal playing field to win 9 straight titles. Not improbable impossible. The math doesn't back up your claims. Even if you had the best coaches, the greatest parents, the best equipment, and every other advantage I can think about it is statistically impossible to do what they have done without recruiting. I am sorry, but to fill 14 weight classes and have years when you have 12 go to state from a school of that size is rediculous to think people aren't going to call you out. Ps. Boiler its a JV dual meet no one else in the state takes forfeits. Which bring me to my next point it is also statistically improbable to have several kids under 119(old wieght) pounds in a school of 250 boys. To do it damn near every year is a crock.

It is like almost like seeing Milan win 5 straight state titles in none classed basketball. One was enough to make a movie about. Maybe you can make a documentory on how you are finding all these wrestlers within a school population of arround 200 or 250 boys. Gene Hackman can play Mike Goeble I know I would pay big bucks to see that happen.

I am sorry to the Matre Dei fans, but small schools do not have the volume of students to produce the talent that Matre Dei has. I can see every couple of years having a state caliber team, but when you win 5 straight titles against schools 10 times your size its a joke to say you don't recruit. Look at the feasablity of that happening and you will see that you are more likely to win powerball several times then have a school with 200 boys win a state title 5 consecutive years. So go blow your we don't have any advantage bs in a different direction.

I must admit I don't mind stirring the pot from time to time, but the Jv thing has some serious validity. Have you ever been to a junior varsity dual meet where a team takes forfeits? Matre Dei did during their national record. I guess I see that as a very low class move and still to this day have less respect for the program for it. Don't get me wrong I like the Jv getting some attention, but to do this in that way is cheap as far as I am concerned. Thats just my opinion though and I am entitled to it.

I didn't want to say it but Matre Dei is an exception to the rule. I mean if South Adams or Adams Central could stand a chance recruiting as well as Matre Dei I may say you have a valid arguement, but when you bus wrestlers and football players in from all over then you should think about moving up for better compitition. Even football is putting into place a rule where you move up if you are as dominate as they have been. I guess wrestling will have to add a general rule as well.