hammer

Awesome story!  I look forward to seeing him compete at IN Tech.

It would be really hard to send your kid away time flies to fast having them in the house. If he is a stud he would get the same opportunities here in indy. How many parents would be able to send there kids half way across the country to live just to be a better wrestler supposidly?

You can't compare the level of competition that he would receive at an Indy school to what he receives at a top school in the nation, especially one without travel restrictions.

So what you are saying is ..... its like ...Classed?

I think he's saying that it's a good tournament, but not what it was before it had direct competition from 2 other tournaments.  Still, winning it is still a huge accomplishment.  For that matter, placing at it is a very good accomplishment.  Good luck to the IN wrestlers who are competing!

I blame the Rankings guy for global warming and Area 51.  I think he is a member of the Illuminati

As I recall, Al Gore invented global warming.

I would agree.  They are a great match when both are healthy and in top form, but when Howe is injured, and not in top conditioning, he wouldn't be a match for Borroughs.

Hammer,

I totally agree that Reece was top 5 at 189.  I am just saying that giving up the weight at the bigger weight classes doesn't restrict a 189 pounder from winning at 215.  The champ and runner-up at 215 would have had their hands full at 189.

I think we agree on that.  In the same token, shouldn't a 95 still be able to compete at 106/107?

I will repost and clarify my ealier post.  Trey Reese and Logan Cooper, state champ and runner-up at 215, weigh 189 pounds.  I have heard from others that Trey can't handle Stevenson in the room.  Trey dominated 215 and weighs 25 pounds less than some.  I would venture to say that the two mentioned wrestlers placed higher than they would have at 189. 

 

Did you just try to bring "NOT" back from 1991?

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that Reece can't handle Stevenson in the room, considering that they are the same size, Stevenson is the one who wrestles their natural weight class.  That doesn't mean that Reece wouldn't be a top 5 guy at 189.

My point is why add more weight classes up top when 189 pounders do quite well at 215(probably do better than they would have at 189).   Your argument isn't a very good one.

I am not sure why you have such issue with my argument.  We need to get away from pushing weight cutting in our sport.  It hurts wrestling as much as anything does.  You will find a lot of the best athlete's in most schools being kids who would fit in from 185 to 215.  Those are, typically, easy weight classes to fill, but would be just as easy, in a lot of cases, if you added a third weight class in there. 

I think having 182, 195, and 220 is crazy.  Take a look at our 215 champ and runner-up.  Reese weighs 190 and Cooper weighs 189.  Many would say they are 182 pounders.  Being undersized at the higher weights didn't hurt them at all. 

I don't think that's a good example, especially in Reece's case.  His team had a kid at 189 that I don't think he could beat out.  If anything, the fact that one school has 2 of the top 5 kids in the state in the same upper weight class is as good of an argument for having more weight classes for the bigger guys.   

I would like to see him pick Penn State.  He'd have great practice partners there, regardless of what weight he's at.  Wisconsin and Minnesota would also be good choices in the Big Ten. 

The initial injury occurred at the New Palestine tournament in January 2010 during a match.  He tried to come back for sectionals and tore it up worse.  He missed the first three football games this season, then injured it again lifting at the end of the season.  He was only supposed to be doing light reps to build strength back into his shoulder but one of the coaches ridiculed him and pushed him to lift heavy with subsequent re-injury.

 

He's in physical therapy again now and is very limited in what he can do without losing sensation in his arm.  It's very frustrating.

That coach sounds like an idiot.  It's a shame to ruin a kid's athletic career through stupidity. 

Only one of the three Indian Creek guys?

I am surprised of this as well, especially considering the one who is attending is the one who won't be wrestling on the next level.

Jake your idea sounds good, but I don't see the IHSAA going for a class in wrestling if they don't have 1 for track, swimming, or cross country which are all similar to the way wrestling is classified.  I don't know about your area, but up here they did an article in the paper about the basketball sectionals and the attendance of the class system.  Some of the smaller classes had a hand full of people attend, 1 example had 23 people in the stands total.  I would like to attend a meeting where the coaches could discuss, not just be told this is what we are going with and coaches not having an open mind, about the possibilities of a change to team and individual state this summer.

I don't believe that you can factor swimming into the equation, as I am pretty sure that there are nowhere near as many schools with swimming programs as wrestling programs.  Track would probably be the best comparison. 

Ok, before I start, YES, I know Coach Peck personally. I do take the comments made in his direction as offensive, but only because of my interpretation. Yes NC wins alot of matches, and yes alot of NC kids have enormous records....... their state titles, or lack of, has nothing to do with peck "inflating" the schedule. Peck and the AD build their schedule in order to develop kids skills on the mat, and in order to get the most out of each kid and improve his potential. Records be damned, NC kids know how to compete.

 

Some years back, I met Peck when I was a College Sophomore, on holiday break. I asked if I could come in and work with his kids over break, as I was a wrestling for my junior college, and needed to stay in shape over the holidays. Peck invited me and my brother in to work out, and we became friendly. Shoot, we learned a few things. After transferring to Ball State, I approached peck about volunteering my time, to come in and work out, and hone my skills as a coach, and to learn a thing or two about a thing or two. Being a Coaching Minor, and having heard about how great NC was from my uncle, i figured this guy must know something. over the next few years, i got to be very close to Peck. I learned that he had not only coached many a kid to a successful season, but that he had even done the unthinkable with some. Kids who became state qualifiers during the most unlikely of times; Peck taught me that it wasnt about how  many matches a kid won, or state titles he brought home, but how they applied themselves to be a solid contributor to their society and to be a stand up citizen. Go to New Castle, and ask around. Pecks name isnt one that you hear and people say "oh, yeah, isnt he the wrestling coach?' or "oh yeah, he can get a kid to the finals, bu he cant win it!" No, hes just as recognizable in NC as any other indiana towns head basketball coach, and not because of his stature, "inflated" record, or the Die Nasty. No, hes respected as a member of the community, for having mentored countless young men to better lives. No they may not be state champs, millionaires, or even all college graduates (although Im sure many a NC wrestler has gone on to graduate college at the advice of Peck), but plenty of them are doing quite well- within society. IT managers, Professional MMA Fighters, Coaches, Teachers, Military veterans, and business men. I never wrestled for peck as a HS kid, but I learned more in my short apprenticeship under his tutelage than most will in a lifetime.

 

Last I heard, most coaches arent in the sport to win titles, or to become immortalized, but to make a difference, give back to a sport that gave something to them, and to influence young men and women to become something more than they are or think they are. Peck not only tries to help these kids, he succeeds. Hes been there for births, weddings, military homecomings,  (he was at my wedding, and was one of the first non-family members to hold my daughter when she was born, and my first homecoming from Iraq). he is a father to many, grandfather to their kids, and many a parent, even my parents who have probably only spoke to Peck on the occasion they run into each other in town consider him as one of the most influential persons in their kids lives.  He serves the community, and many are thankful for the positive influence peck has on New Castle and its residents. I would put a good bottle of Dr Pepper...... ok, Jamesons... that Peck would trade every victory, every record, every state qualifier, just to ensure that his kids have the skills and tools necessary to go out and be productive in life, ready to tackle any task head on, and prepared for success.

 

Love Ya Peck! Hope to see y0u soon!

I have no doubt that Coach Peck is a good coach and mentor to the kids he has coached.  My comments on this in no way meant to take anything away from him or his accomplishments.  What I was trying to point out is that if his kids get an extra 15 regular season matches in each year(compared to the schools that I have coached at), that for a really good wrestler should end up with at least an extra 50 victories out of those 60 matches.  So it does skew the stats a little.  Which is why I would rather see the all-time wins list as an all-time win %, with a minimum # of matches wrestled, maybe 150 to throw out a number.

MD gave up 3 pins to Hobart and may have given 3 to ST. ED's in 86-87

Thanks for the info.  I remembered them getting pinned multiple times in the Hobart match, but I couldn't remember if it was 3 or 4 that they gave up.

Blue Bolt has it right MD is not the team of old. I would bet that is the only time MD has given up 4 pins in a meet and if they have it was when they first started their program.

Didn't they give up more than a few pins to the Hobart team that almost knocked them off around the beginning of Team State in the mid 90's?

While I don't think he has any room to complain in this case, since he screwed up by not knowing the rules, I do agree that it would make more sense to put the North teams on one side of the bracket, and the South teams on the other half.  I would have had it as CP vs Delphi, Penn vs Bellmont, PM vs LN, and EMD vs Roncalli.  Don't we do that in every other team sport?

If it was broken down into three classes there would be a lot of parody in the first class.  2a would also have teams like Belmont and New Pal.  I think trhat classing it would effect a lot more teams than you would think.

I think the word you meant is parity.  Parody would insinuate that the first class was spoofing the other classes. 

No, I dont have an inside source.  And really, did you just ask if I had documentation from Bobby Cox... come on....  and yes, my guess is no better than the rest, including YOURS!!!!

 

My comment about attendance sais "disheartning".....    Considering all the talk on this board about saving team state by going and supporting team state, then we have a half full/empty gym for the finals....  Yes, that is disheartning...    And your point about their team was out so they left maybe goes to one of the problems of team state.  How many casual fans go and watch, or do they just go and watch their team and leave.  It does not  seem as if the team series has permeated into the wrestling culture, and no i have no letters from anybody stating this, just a valid observation.

I'm not sure where the relevancy is with half the crowd leaving by the championship match.  Isn't the almighty dollar what the IHSAA really cares about?  Under that thinking, if everyone buys a ticket to fill the stands for the first round, the IHSAA still brings in the same gate, regardless of when they leave.

MD over Crown Point 30-25, moves on to face Lawrence North.

 

I don't understand how Roach was prevented from wrestling 160 when Blake Maurer bumped up two classes - from 171 to 215 - against New Castle at Team State 2004.  Maurer was certified at 171 and won state at that class.  Have the rules changed?

Mauer weighed in at over 171 that do, so he technically just bumped up one class.

While 200 wins is a great accomplishment, it's also a case that numbers can get inflated.  If you notice through the years, there are some teams that wrestle 60 matches or more by State, while other teams don't even get 40 matches in.  I would vote for win % over number of wins.

Didn't Scott Wilson from Rushville come into the sectional his senior year,1989-90, with a 0-0 record and go on to win it?

That might be correct, although that wasn't who I was thinking of.

I am almost sure there have been 0-0 wrestlers entering the State tournament who have won it.

Did we have any this year guy?

Roach

I think that Alex peaked earlier than Jason.  I think I remember seeing from National results that Alex had more success before HS.  Alex was better as a Freshman,  and better as a Sophmore as well.  Junior vs. Junior is a draw in my opinion, but I see next year's Jason being better than Senior year Alex.  Overall, I agree with those that are saying that Alex was better on his feet, at least from an offensive standpoint, but Jason is probably on the mat than Alex was until well into his college career.  I will give Jason huge props for beating Quiroga, but in Alex's defense, he wouldn't have lost to Napules like Jason did.