hammer

I love this tournament. has their been any four time winners I know I only won it twice the tournament is a grinder. My head coach here at McCutcheon is going to be trying to get into this tournament hope there is a spot for them sometime in the future.

Randy Baker won it 4 times for Bellmont.  I think that he might still be the only one to accomplish that feat.

Tough call!  Tsirtsis broke the #2 guy in the country, halfway through their match.  I don't recall Howe doing that as a HS wrestler.  Although, Howe just did not give up points, so it's hard to say if Tsirtsis' seemingly unstoppable offense would defeat Howe's seemingly impenetrable defense.  It's a tossup! 

One thing that I think people need to remember though, is that the fact that Jason lost twice in HS, and that Andrew only lost once, isn't relevant.  We are talking Senior vs. Senior.  Freshman year comparisons should only matter if we are talking about who would win when bother were Freshman. 

I don't know the two personally at all, so these are just my observations from afar:

 

1. Alex wasn't nearly as polished as Jason is at this point in their careers.  Alex was an elite prospect, but not a 'no-doubt' prospect in terms of competing for national titles.  He had some tough off-season matches after his senior year of high school.  With Jason, you almost wonder if he'll rest during Fargo because it might not bring many challenges.  If I was coaching for one year only and had to win right now, I honest-to-goodness would choose Jason to be on my team as a true freshman next year over Alex at his absolute college best.  I think he's that much better than Alex was.

 

2. Jason will brawl against guys on his level.  In my humble, humble opinion, Alex was always tentative--even in a few Indiana high school matches--if he had a match against someone on his level.  Jason just keeps coming at you, in that Howe sort of way, where you know his development won't stop because he won't stop taking chances and improving.  I was worried when Alex entered college because I thought there was a chance his ceiling would be limited by his unwillingness to go after it when there was a chance of losing during that more developmental state of his career.   He won some impressive one-to-zero-in-double-overtime-type of matches against tough guys as a freshman in college, then just never got a whole lot better.

 

3. Jason is a beast on top in folkstyle in a way that Alex never developed.  In Jason's first couple years in high school, I don't think he always got the techs that Alex may have, but he meanwhile developed excellent mat skills that put him steps ahead for the next level.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with your analysis of the two.  I do have a question for you, regarding Jason.  Is he more polished in terms of scoring from bottom, against high level competition?  Alex was great on his feet, as a college Freshman, but struggled from bottom against anyone who was good on top.  Can Jason score from bottom, no matter how good his opponent is on top?  My guess would be yes, but I haven't seen him in those situations enough to say for sure.

Yes, here is the match.

Impressive match by Hiestand!

After Jared blanks Corsaro, I can't help but wonder how close he could have kept it with Tsirtsis.  I know it probably wouldn't be real close, but...I guess we will never know unless they both wrestle 141 at some point in college.

It wouldn't be close at all!

Jason seems well prepared to wrestle as a true Freshman, in terms of Neutral and Top.  I haven't seen signs that he will struggle on bottom as Alex did, but if that is a weakness of his, a redshirt year could help in that department.  It would have helped Alex.

Holy crap!  JT beat Caldwell!  That is a huge victory for him!  

WOW!  That is crazy!  When you look at it from the first angle, it looks like he's flat on his back, and that the ref should be checking for the fall.  The other angle looks like he's nowhere near near fall criteria!

Sean Mappes running from his opponent? That's about the dumbest thing I have ever heard..if the kid wanted a better shot of winning he shouldn't have gotten rode out for over half the match. Congrats to Sean on an unbelievable season, defeating 9 kids ranked in the top ten at some point this year..I know not too many people can say that. It's been a privilege to watch you grow as a young man and as a wrestler, and only more to come. 46-0 2012 State Champion and NOTHING anyone says or does can EVER take that away!

The Center Grove kid who ran was Schoettle, against Lovejoy on Friday night.  It was ridiculous!  The ref should have had the guts to award the points that he had signaled for the stalling, although, the Luers coaches should have contested it better at the end, too.  The CG coaches share the blame for that, and for how they acted afterwards.  No class!  If I remember correctly, thos same coaches screwed up the seeding at the Al Smith, by their behavior in the seeding meeting.

My point is he is nowhere near as good as lahue. When you wrestle someone alot of times, the match gets closer and closer. Whitley is a "good" wrestler. But lahue is a great wrestler. Im sorry for making it sound like it wasnt a great match. i so think it was a fluke..if they wrestled 10 times lahue would win 9 IMO. It doesnt matter anymore..i dont think theres a chance they could wrestle this weekend...GOOD LUCK TO ALL WRESTLERS TONIGHT

So you are saying that a wrestler who beats another wrestler in a 3-2 match is nowhere near as good as the wrestler he defeated?  How is that logical?  It would be one thing to say that about a wrestler who was dominated in a match, and then fell into a pin fall win, but to say that about someone who wins a 3-2 match is ridiculous!

I don't have a dog in the fight, so I will be rooting for the wrestler from my SS.  Good luck to Hayden Lee!

The story that I have always heard was that Talamantes cut because his teammate, Alex Tone (not sure about his first name), couldnt/wouldn't make the cut to 189.  Tone was pretty good in his own right, and Anton cut so that Tone could get in the line-up. That's the story I've always heard.  Either way Talamantes was pretty darn good, I doubt he would have cut to avoid anybody.

From what I heard, it sounds pretty accurate.  I also heard that Anton cut in preparation for wrestling in college, since he wasn't going to be a college Hwt.  He definitely didn't do it to duck Radnovich.

ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO A LEO WRESTLER WAS AN ALTERNATE TO THE SEMI STATE OUT OF REGIONALS, AND GOT A CHANCE TO COMPETE. AT SEMI STATE HE WON HIS FIRST AND WAS THEN BEATEN BY THE CHAMPION, ALA THE ALTERNATE AGAIN THIS TIME TO STATE. GUESS WHAT HAPPENED, YEP HE GOT THE CHANCE TO WRESTLE AND WON ON FRIDAY NIGHT!! A STATE PLACE WINNER AS THE ULTIMATE ALTERNATE, YES, OUT OF THE FT WAYNE SEMI STATE. MY AGE AND DIMINISHING MEMORY HAVE BLANKED ON HIS NAME. WHO REMEMBERS?

Weight Class?

  Yeah, these 2 met in all 4 with Talamentes winning all of them.

I don't believe this to be correct.  I am almost sure that they started at SS.  Bolden(South Side) wrestled in the New Haven Sectional/Snider Regional.  Talmantes(Northside) North Side Sectional/Carroll Regional.  The didn't ever wrestle in the SAC finals, because Bolden got screwed in the seeding meeting, and he was the 4th seed, wrestling Talamantes in the semi finals.

Will be praying for both of them, and their families!

While I am in favor of wrestlebacks, and if any level deserves them the most, it would be SS, I can see the counter point to having them there as well.  Under our current system I have seen wrestlers come in as a 3 or 4 seed and knock off two favored wrestlers to make it to State.  It doesn't seem fair to tell that same kid that instead of taking 4th place, we are now going to give someone who lost earlier another shot, at his expense.

Just for clarification, if you weigh you kid in for the 138 class and he misses weight, is he only eligible to wrestle 145, or is he eligible to wrestle 152, also?

where would we be without the right to show our emotion and celebrate our victories?.....as long as you're not getting in your opponents face afterwards, making rude gestures to the crowd or opposing team or just acting totally like an idiot, i think that's what makes it exciting for the fans and the other wrestlers.....pump that fist, shout out, raise those arms.....any kid willing to risk getting his butt kicked in front of a crowd should be able to celebrate a big victory when it happens.....

Charger Dad, you just posted something very close to what I was in the process of posting.  There is nothing wrong with celebrating at the conclusion of a match, as longer as you are not being disrespectful in doing so.  I can respect the wrestler who chooses to or not to display some emotion at the end.  I did it as a wrestler, when winning matches that were big wins(big for me), and as a coach, I had no problem with my wrestlers celebrating in a respectful way.  

It didn't work out this way in the end, but as huge of a dominant victory as Willis had, over a top level opponent, that momentum could have carried his team to win some matches that they wouldn't otherwise win, and find a way to pull off the big upset.

I miss him....

You are likely the only one who does!

Its not possible to get 9 loses at conseco, someone could have lost 2 matches each of the 4 years so 8 would be the most right

Wrong!  If you win Friday night, lose first thing Saturday morning, lose in the first round on consolations, and lose the 7th place match, that would be 3 losses in one year.

This is a pretty classless post...

I agree that it was a classless statement.

I agree with you bulldog Goldman was underrated. And Sligs lost to Stevenson, Arron wrestled a different match against Goldman. Personally I think Sliga would of won against Garrett, different styles would make a different outcome just my opinion no disrespect meant to anyone. And as for Ty he is amazing love the young man Iv known him and family for about 12 years. I cant wait for the two of them to hopefully battle it out their sen. year Ty is due to win him 1

Didn't Stevenson beat Goldman a week earlier?  7-2, maybe?  Sliga might have beat Goldman in a given match, or he might have lost to him.  When guys are on similar levels, either guy can win on a given day.

To play devil's advocate a little to this post, I remember a Top 10 Warren Central team that didn't have a FB player in their lineup at all.  Hard to say that their upper weights weren't as dedicated as their lightweights and middleweights.

If I had my choice, I would have kept the middle weights as they were, and added the one upper weight class.  Could have eliminated most need for tie-breakers, because of the uneven number of weight classes.

I would vote NO to this proposal, here are some of my reasoning:

 

-  There is much talk of Indiana competing at the national level.  While I am not "against" that, I do believe that at it's basic level Indiana high school sports is more about promoting competition, sportsmanship and athletics within the youth community.  What happens when you have a senior wrestler that has worked under a superior athlete for several years, finally has his chance to be a varsity wrestler, then loses a wrestle-off to an 8th grade stud?

 

- I believe that for the very good middle school wrestlers there are other avenues available to find greater competition:  first and foremost, local wrestling clubs.  Go to those and you will find a concentration of more serious partners and coaches teaching higher techniques.  Secondly, ISWA/USA and HYWAY tournaments.  If they are not providing enough competition within state, then get onto the USA Wrestling major tournament tour where you will see some of the best from the nation.

 

-  Lastly, and I think this is overlooked, is maturity level.  High school boys deal with different issues that middle schoolers, discuss some "topics" at a much different level and generally are divided for a reason.  Just as I think it would be a mistake to have an elementary child hanging around with primarily a middle school group of boys, I believe the same would hold true for the middle school kid being put in the middle of a high school wrestling team.  I have personally seen/heard high school boys have discussions that make me cringe as an adult.  Personally, I would not want a middle school kid in the middle of that.

I would also vote no, but I would disagree with your first point.  Couldn't that scenario happen if that 8th grade stud is a 9th grade stud, instead?

Mitch at 182?   Expect him at 196---sophomore to junior year is a growing year

 

 

I agree.  If he's planning to be a 197 in college, it makes sense for him to go 196.  He'd be a strong favorite at any of the weights from 182-220.  Maybe he'll select a weight class based on where he can find the best competition?