Y2CJ41

Good point Duck, success in high schools should mean that a school does not have to forfeit a weight class, that the starters have decent mat room partners, that there might be enough school interest that most weights are contended for each year. I just think there is alot more to it than just the standard response of work harder, or you don't put in enough time. There are many definitions of success. I think ACAC teams are successful. As are smaller schools like Southridge, Princeton,Northview, Brown County to name a few. So getting the youth started early in an area, seems to be the common denominator for student interest in high school.

So basically you are lowering the standard for successful because the teams in the ACAC are small schools?  When I coach my kids I don't lower the standards, we want to win sectional and regional titles and take kids to state each year.  We don't lower the standards because they are from a small school.

Sectional Titles by School

Leo- 0

Garrett- 0

Southern Wells- 0

Bluffton- 0

Heritage- 0

Adams Central- 3

South Adams- 0

Woodlan- 2

5 sectional championships, wow!

The 90's was way better, better hair, better style, better wrestlers, nuff said!

NORTHROP 57, WAYNE 13

103?McKinley (N) d. forfeit; 112?Wilde (N) d. Arthur 7-4; 119?Hunt (N) d. forfeit; 125?Ervin (N) p. Lovett; 130?Kunesh (N) p. Fourshee; 135?Grace (N) d. Jones 7-5; 140?Solleberger (W) d. Davis 19-8; 145?Jones (N) d. Phillips 6-5; 152?Mills (N) p. Stantz; 160?Porter (N) p. Goehring; 171?Harris (N) p. Grove; 189?Buchanan (N) p. Bollock; 215?McCurrie (W) d. Talamantes 9-2; HWT?Reyes (W) p. White 6-0

DEKALB 49, NEW HAVEN 9

103-Matt Frane (DeK) dec Justin Syndram 12-2; 112-Alex Mix (DeK) pin Kameron Sabol :53; 119-Colin Shaffer (NH) dec. Tyler Miller 9-3; 125-Greg Sexton (DeK) pin Reese Sieger 3:02; 130-Tommy Poytner (DeK) pin Grant Bremmer 2:28; 135-Ian Perkins (NH) dec. Connor Brunett 10-4; 140-Travis Gaff (DeK) dec. Nate Bloomfield 3-0; 145-Levy Francois (NH) dec. Jeff Mason 9-7; 152-Aaron Mason (DeK) dec. Zach Zurbrugg 4-1; 160-Jake Hammel (DeK) dec. Andrew Syndram 9-7; 171-Scott Baker (DeK) dec. Quentin Burnett 3-1; 189-Tim Graves (DeK) dec. Jeff Robinson 5-0; 215-Dalton Lepley (DeK) pin Jack Lowe 5:14; 275-Austin Shoemaker (DeK) pin Nick Pritchard 2:21.

They are posted

http://www.indianamat.com/southern-indiana-wrestling-conference-brackets/2010/01/

State Champions

Adams Central- 1

Leo- 1

Bluffton- 2

Garrett- 0

South Adams- 0

Southern Wells- 0

Woodlan- 0

Heritage-0

That really isn't that good.

How many sectional championships have those ACAC teams won?  How many state champions have they had? 

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Its the furthest to the right.

Do you think they hold the same respect in their state's wrestling community? 

Does it matter if the big school people think they are better than everyone else?  Does that taint Jimtown's championships?  Does that make Jimtown not celebrate their championships or not put banners up or have large pep rallies?

Does a small school champ demand the same attention from college coaches that a big school champ does?

A small school champ that does well at the national level will get the attention.  For instance, Andrew Howe was from a small school.  He didn't get a scholarship based on his performances in Indiana, he got noticed because of his national credentials.  If we had 2/3 classes, he would have still been highly recruited.

As an example, one of the comments was about Jimtown's "developmental football league championships".  The general consensus that I perceive in our football community is that the 1A, 2A, and maybe even 3A state championships are considerably less impressive than 4A and 5A.  Football recruiters will scour the rosters of 5A schools and 1-3A rosters have to send their kids info out just for the schools to acknowledge their existence even though the athlete may be even or better.

In wrestling it is a lot easier to get recognition being from a small school(in class or non class) because you can go test yourself at the national level.  If you want a DI scholarship, go place at a national level tournament.  You will start getting recognition there very quickly. 

If you are worried about recruiting in Indiana at the DI level you better win three or more titles. 

Jitmown 138,

Grades were not a factor.

Placing at state in a lower division(s) will get college coaches attention, but what really gets their attention is impressive performances at national tournaments like Fargo, NHSCA nationals, USAW Nationals, etc.  I will use this as an example: I had two kids, same grade level both accomplish two great feats as sophomores.  One was a state qualifier, the other placed at Fargo, but was only a two time regional qualifier at that point.  Guess who got a letter from a DI school?  Yes, the 2x regional qualifier because he placed at a national tournament.

No... What I am saying is that take the school name off for a second and look at the overall percentage of the population that will qualify statistically (can't you hear people logging off already  ).  If the STATISTICS show that on average only 1 out of 1,000 will qualify then why would it be a surprise that school X of 100 students doesn't get a ticket to the big dance every year and school XX of 2,200 sends a van full.  Am I making this better or worse?

The percentage of students at schools in the bottom half of enrollment is 24%, top half 76%. 

Are you stating that because 76% of the students in the state are at big schools, they should have 76% of the state qualifiers? 

To me if you are stating that, you are telling me enrollment at the schools matter in terms of being a state qualifier.

Let's not get too crazy with the numbers here!  These percentages are deceiving...  What percent of the total school population qualified from each school (big & small). 

 

If I combine several small HS together to equal the population of one of the large HS do the percentages look the same or not?  Let me try that a different way, if for every 1,000 kids x-amount qualify, then a big school would understandably qualify more than a school with 300.  Likewise, if I only have 300 students I would have to qualify a whole team to make your percentages look 'equal'.  Does anyone get what I am saying here?

If you are saying school population has a factor in how many kids qualify for state, isn't that a reason to vote for class wrestling?

Let's not get too crazy with the numbers here!  These percentages are deceiving...  What percent of the total school population qualified from each school (big & small). 

 

If I combine several small HS together to equal the population of one of the large HS do the percentages look the same or not?  Let me try that a different way, if for every 1,000 kids x-amount qualify, then a big school would understandably qualify more than a school with 300.  Likewise, if I only have 300 students I would have to qualify a whole team to make your percentages look 'equal'.  Does anyone get what I am saying here?

How many kids per team qualify for sectional each year?  Are small schools equal to the big schools?

good stuff...you have seen alot of discussion and have alot of information...I would really like to hear your opinion on this topic.  Which side of the fence do you sit on? Have you seen any viable solutions that would be good for indiana?

 

I will keep this short.  I think in order for the betterment of the sport it would be beneficial to go to classes for both the team an individual series.  As a fan and competitor I would want nothing more than single class, but as a coach and someone that wants the sport to progress I feel that we need classes.  The small school programs in the state are struggling and it will not get any better any time soon. 

good info Y2k...what I see is a state series with 3 classes-

 

small- 27%

Medium- 36%

Large- 37%

 

Again just a thought

The IHSAA classes sports by an even breakdown, so if there were 3 classes, 33.3% of the schools would be in each class.

If you want to see even more damning evidence, here is a link to the statistics of state qualifiers the past 11 years by classification. 

http://indianamat.com/stuff/proof2009.html

Just a couple notes

73.86% of the state qualifiers are from schools in upper half of enrollment

57.86% of the state qualifiers are from the schools in the upper 33% of enrollment

Back in the day, I guess I wouldve wanted to know I was the best...in the state at any level.  Maybe other people or different and thats ok.  I just wanted to know where I stood and how much more it was gonna take to get me to be the best.

Again, do you think state champions in the smallest class in Ohio feel shamed or pity that they are state champions in the smallest class?  Do you think their communities celebrate their championships any differently?

Do any state class team, but not individual competition?

Back to what I said, in New Jersey they have the same number of schools as we do.  The smallest is 161 students, while the biggest is 3142 students.  In Indiana it is 55 students and 4495 students.

The standard deviation in New Jersey is 440, in Indiana it is 704.  Meaning the variation of students in New Jersey is a lot less than in Indiana.  Here is another breakdown of schools broken off in 500 increments.

Indiana

0-500     83           26.86%

501-1000 109   35.28%

1001-1500 52     16.83%

1501-2000 33     10.68%

2000+     32   10.36%

New Jersey

0-500     46   14.89%

501-1000 142 45.95%

1001-1500 88   28.48%

1501-2000 24   7.77%

2000+   9       2.91%

Do you think a kid in Ohio that wins a DII state championship feels any different than the kid that wins the DI championship or DIII championship?

New Jersey is the only one.

In researching this I found that many of the schools in New Jersey were close in size, they had very, very few mega schools and really small schools.

Now all the top 20 schools will kill you since you let the cat out of the bag of how to have a successful program.  I never realized it was that easy.

whys the regulator post deleted?

He deleted the post.

Yorktown is really not a small school. In football there are 5 classes and they are 3A. In basketball there are 4 classes and they are 3A.

Technically in wrestling, Yorktown is a small school.  They are in the bottom half of the enrollment when looking at all the schools that have wrestling.  They are close to the top, but still would be considered small if we had two classes.

Brackets

http://www.indianamat.com/hoosier-hills-conference-brackets-2/2010/01/