BeastMode#31

After reading my own comments I realize they sound a bit more brash than I wanted them to. No disrespect was intended. I tend to like most wresters.

No worries...we are a pretty thick-skinned, hard- headed group. Lol

Good luck to everyone this weekend!

What would you choose?

Love the semis, especially this year.

Guess opinions vary big dog

So do biases/discriminations/ stereotypes

No affiliation with any Indy area school but I can tell you that I never hear anyone say a nice word about cathedrals athletic  programs. Jealousy? Envy? True moral questions? I have no clue, but I do know most people in Indiana feel the private schools have a serious advantage across the board. My boss actually refuses to hire anyone from a private school. Says he feels like they have a sense of entitlement. ?

Dan B.

His loss

Why don't kids from Turkey Run win every year? Oh wait they don't work hard.

Right on queue...thanks Joe.

+1

+2

Waiting for one of two responses...

"He is a huge outlier blah, blah, blah"

Or

"So you are saying small schools are lazy and don't work hard enough?"

Nate Trawick of Richmond HVY, 3rd year wrestler.  Freshman year I watched a match early in the year, where he couldn't even get ready without being dinged for a caution.  Standing, referee position, anything.  And by the end of that year made it to semi-state, and again last year, this year making it to state.  Local paper says he benches 420 and very athletic.

Is he a football player? If not he's missing his calling as a D lineman.

In New Castle thread I asked how much he bench pressed and guessed 450-475! ( not too far off)

He's a tough one.

not in individual tournament  in golf one guy starts  and in wrestling one guy starts  if they are good they move on  if not they go home

i never once relied on my team mates to help me win sectionals yet some how the class system would make me better because of my team size and its placement in that system??

Madtowns- we had a good run on this post for a while.

But it is obvious these guys want a handout for their sons/wrestlers and hide behind " it's best for the sport" argument.

Indiana has good wrestling but it is not a super deep national power that needs watered down state tourney.

Good luck to everyone this weekend.

I guess all this talk about being watered down and the one true champ is cunfusing to me. I grew up and wrestled in a small town in ohio with there classed system. I never  heard anyone complaining about a kid being a state champ but he was from a small school division and he lost at some tournament to the big school champ so hes not really a champ. I guess i just want whats best for the kids. If a classed system is whats best then i'm all for it. If single class is whats best im for that. But the school of thought of its always been this way and it should stay that i dont buy. We all had our shot at the title and we either made it or fell short but we cant go back. I just want the future of indiana wrestling to grow.

Indiana and Ohio is apples and oranges Boomer

There is no IHSAA classed team version.  WTF  you smoking?

He is referring to IHSWCA Team state (classed)

So since small schools have a hugely disproportionate amount of state qualifiers those kids just flat out do not work hard enough. That is what you are saying.

 

I am so glad we have solved the problem.  Attention 1A schools, work harder or you will continue to be the whipping boys of wrestling in the state.

Y2 s classic argumentum ad nauseum tactic. Beat it into the ground Joe, even though you know that is not what we are saying.

Hope you enjoy the one class state finals this year!

So kids and teams at the 1A level just aren't working hard is that what you are saying?

No that's not what I'm saying as evidenced by all the hard working tough guys wrestling this weekend from small schools.

It is no secret that high school success begins in the elementary program. Look at Perry. There coaches are working hard 7 days a week in season and probably 4-5 out of season developing these young guys. Same for Bellmont, Penn, Cathedral, Mater Dei, Franklin.

You can't just show up in November and have your school make a morning announcement for wrestling tryouts and hope 14 tough kids show up with some experience.

But you know all of this you just like to debate

The fact that other states have multiple classes and they also have quality wrestling leads me to believe that there can be a benefit to grow the sport.  The downside is essentially meaningless. This desire to have a single champion is a selfish in my opinion. I've heard no meaningful argument that it would hurt the sport.  So, it's worth consideration.

Some valid points.

I think some of the powerhouse states have significantly higher numbers (Illinois, Ohio, PA, TX, NJ) and deeper talent than Indiana so it makes sense for them to class. As for KY, I have NO idea why they class.

Could a classed system work? Who knows? It would not "kill" Indiana wrestling by any means but it would drastically water it down for at least 5-7 years if not indefinitely (until these small schools have the success snowball factor that you and Y2 believe it would).

Of course there is no guarantee that the small schools will have any more success than they do now.

Glad to see the post didnt die while i drove to indy. Baybe we can compromise. Have 2 classes then after the season we take the top 8 from each and invite them for a tournament. If someone chooses not to come then start inviting kids that got eliminated in first round. We could do it right with full wrestle backs and everything. I bet the kids would love the competition. Sounds like it could work, but first we would have to get the ihsaa to change to classes. But since we cant get wrestle back i doubt the would be intereste in classing. So i guess were debating something thats not going to happen anyway. O well lets go watch some great wrestling in a few hours and see what major upset happen so we have something to talk about tonight.

Can't wait to see some action! Good luck to you and your guys Boomer.

Oh, so I didn't receive a great education?  You're correct, the 6 AP classes that I took at Perry Meridian were just your typical public school classes.  And what about them allowing me to take two college courses at the University of Indianapolis the second semester of my senior year?  Or what about Perry Meridian being one of the top AP established schools in the state?  Nah, that can't be! Education is what you make of it, no matter what school you attend.  As for the loving and faith filled atmosphere, it is about who you surround yourself with -- not where you go to school.  I was surrounded by students, student-athletes, and teammates that shared common goals with me; being a superb student, a great citizen, and being a state champion.  During my years at Perry Meridian, not once did we have a varsity wrestler flunk off of the team.  Also, do you think the 3 Blue Rings came without that "loving and faith filled atmosphere?"  Its called a TEAM state championship for a reason.  As for the spirited school, you must not have ever been in attendance while a Perry Meridian Pep Rally was in session.  They really showed that we bled Falcon Blue together.  How does the old saying go…? Oh, thats right, "Never judge a book by its cover."

Nicely said

I suppose the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" crowd are getting to bankers life on their donkey cart. I'll take a nice modern automobile.

Lets hear your side of the debate. What interests you about a classed system?

Great for what? Great for the big schools, why yes. Great for stunting the growth of the sport, why yes. Great for making it near impossible for a small school to have success, why yes.

It's not currently hurting Mater Dei, Yorktown, Bellmont, South Adams. It is definitely not near impossible for these guys.

Is it great for the big schools? Do you think the Bigs just have success automatically because of numbers? heck NO

Look at their coaches;

Franklin- Hasseman

Perry- Tonte and Schoettle

Penn- Harper

Mishawaka- Smith/Snyder/Hasseman

Cathedral-Rhodes/McGinley

These guys are completely dedicated and have built staffs and communities that buy into their system. You would be hard pressed to go to an off season meet and not see these guys there.

I have NO doubt these guys would be successful at 1A schools as well. It would take a few years, but it would happen.

There is NO substitute for HARD WORK.

But there is a shortcut...which it sounds like you would like to take.

Same tired arguments. The Olympics vs high school sports great comparison. Shows how short sighted you are and really how much people don't care about the growth if this sport. Illinois just recently went to the classes from two. We are one of only a handful of states that is not classed. Why were many state classing wrestling in the 60's and 70's? How come wrestling hasn't died in those states with class wrestling if it is so detrimental?

Joe- our current system is GREAT! What else is there to say?

I'll comment briefly on the age-old recruiting talk. If you really want to get educated on recruiting, open enrollment, private/parochial/public classification, etc., I would encourage you to visit the www.gridirondigest.net. For years on this IHSAA football site, Cathedral has been educating the rest of the state on how we populate our halls with awesome student-athletes. We recruit pretty much every single person that comes to Cathedral. We have no feeder schools and we have no archdiocese endorsement like Chatard, Scecina, Ritter, and Roncalli. We recruit everyone and our selection process is rigid. Whether you are a good athlete, an amazing student, or have a unique talent, we want you. Can you afford the $12,000/year? That is another question. Many get aid, but none get "free rides". It is a commitment from every single parent to make a sacrifice to bring their son or daughter there. The sacrifice starts in the pocketbook, continues through rigorous educational demands, and ends with a 100% graduation rate and 94% college placement percentage.

 

The only recruiting fact you need to know about Perry, Cathedral, Penn, "whatever program is hot at the time" is parents chase good programs. Parents want the best for their children. Whether a kid drives by 3 high schools on the way to Cathedral, Perry, or Penn is irrelevant.  If you build an awesome program, people will find you. Look at Coach P at Carmel. He's got kids moving in from everywhere to be led by him and his program is in its infancy. "Move-ins", long commutes, etc. are a bi-product of pissing excellence.

 

I'm excited for the biggest weekend in Cathedral wrestling history. Don't eff this one up, boys. Kick arse tonight!!

nice

When someone tells you that they just had a baby & it weighed 8 lbs 1 ounce, and you wonder if it could cut to get to under 8  to make the lighter class.

hilarious

life isn't fair but you can always work with what you have. I come from a small school and it motivated me to push myself harder to out work the schools that have the talent and numbers. In my whole high school career I never had a full team and i can tell you right now that it made our team super happy when we beat schools that were bigger than us and had kids.

+50

Well, I knew this was coming, was just hoping it would wait til after the season, now what will we talk about?

"move-ins"

Thats not what i said. Just a chance to make it to state for the small schools. We all dont have 60 kids to chose from to fill our lineups, but we have to wrestle against them. A 2 class system would be perfect. So if your good enough to make it to the ss tcket round you woul probably be going to state. I think most people can agree that to make it to the ticket round you have to be very good. Im not for everyone making it, thats just stupid.

Boomer- You hit the nail on the head- "to make it to the ticket round you have to be very good".

I agree 100% with your statement.  These ticket rounders don't have to be State Qualifiers to lay claim that they are "very good wrestlers"...they are!!

i was a three time semi state qualifier  i didnt deserve to be a state qualifier because i didnt earn it  but if you add classes im going to want you to send me some medals that i would have earned under the new system

Great post!

I think most of us single class supporters are super duper uber competitive types. (or narrow-minded lol)

I was Indianapolis All-City in football and it always bothered me that I wasn't All County because those guys at BD and Warren were probably better.

I would have rather been 2nd or 3rd team All County because I could have gone head to head with the best instead of being a big fish in a small pond.

Just my opinion. I would still support Indiana wrestling and the "kids" regardless of the format.

Well there are a lot of ss ticket rounders who are deserving of making it to state, sawyer miller, for example.

Great argument for wrestle-backs