aoberlin

What 103 is always weak. I am not even sure why we ever had it.  :o

Luke Welch at 120... I could see him pulling it out over Campbell and then Todd.

You forgot Petrov.  WOW.  That kid was on a mission.  I am going to get the videos of him in the Semis and the Finals and use it as an example how to take it to the next level.

Just watched the video. WOW !! 

Where can I see the video?

I was standing right next to the a Center Grove coach that was on the side and he was yelling no and what are you doing when his kid was running.  I really just think the moment got bigger than the kid and he wasn't thinking right.  It also probably didn't help that Lovejoy is dangerous and he knew it.  I look forward to watching Lovejoy for the next 3 years he is exciting to watch and so was his brother.  Again remember they are just kids and I am sure he want be doing that again.

No offense but I am going to treat her fair just like she would want.  I am rooting for Lee.  The kid has spunk and is a good little wrestler.  Good luck to all.

Great stuff.

One of two rules that I think need implemented on the high school level. That and 1 point inbounds constitutes a takedown (ie hand, toe, ect). Riding time awards the dominant wrestler and in my opinion makes a match more exciting to watch.

 

I would agree with both.  To many times I see kids using the out of bounds as a safety net.

(except Colburn, who would call stalling on a kid who is about to tech fall someone in the first minute of a match

LOLOLOLOLOL

I like the idea of rewarding a dominant rider, or perhaps I like the idea of punishing a kid that can't get out on bottom.  Either way I wish high school had riding time.  

 

I understand the college riding time rule is not feasible for high school as timekeepers can barely handle one clock that only ticks down.  I can't imagine the chaos of having to keep track of two clocks, with one of them ticking up and down.

 

I propose a simple riding time rule.   Ride a kid the entire period and you get a point.  Thats it.  If the other kid chooses down and can't get out the rider gets a point.  The kids that man up and choose top get a point if they ride the whole period.

 

Thoughts?

I like the idea.  I always feel the responsibility should be on the bottom guy getting out. With the current rules it is hard for a ref to figure out who is stalling.  Is the top guy that good? Or is the bottom guy just not trying?  I know that riding behind the hips for too long is considered stalling but kids just learn different art forms for jumping out to the side and running 2 on ones or near side wrist rides.  If we are training kids for College why not try to emulate what they are doing more?

I wasn't trying to compare like opponents. Im just sayin carroll isn't a phillips, ayersman, todd, lecount. He's a very talented wrestler but he's not in that next level. Like I said ayersman will show this saturday morning. And the reason I mentioned body structure is bc phillips has looked good against or could even say like he has in the past against shorter or average heighth opponents. And only struggles with the longer kids. Crume very well may beat him in a close one but I don't think the strength or another wrestlers ability bother him like length does.

Carroll is not that far off.  He is an extremely tough and talented sophmore.  I believe he was a multiple triple crown winner when he was a little younger.  If I was a betting man I would say before the end of his high school career he will be under the lights also.

I'll take the bad view from the floor over the good view from the seats every year.

I didn't say I would trade it.  Just wish it was better.

Sectional                      Multiplier   State Qualifers

 

Carroll                          1.27             10 Qualifiers this year

Elkhart Memorial     1.23              7 Qualifiers this year

New Haven                 1.17              6 Qualifers this year

Westview                     1.04              6 Qualifiers this year

Jay County                 1.00             13 Qualifers this year

Peru                               0.77             4 Qualifiers this year

Delta                             0.75              7 Qualifers this year

Oak Hill                        0.70             3 Qualifiers this year

 

Jay County seems undervalued.  Those numbers are with Adams Central having a disaster day.

 

Walburn, Roe, Pfister all knocked off

Wait Westview Sectionals doesn't look the weakest.  Am I missing something?

So let me get this straight... getting a takedown and riding out the rest of the first period, riding out the entire second period, and getting an escape, a quick takedown, and riding out the rest of the 3rd period with the 5th ranked wrestler that placed 3rd last year isn't that impressive?

Oh, and Crume isn't tall and long. He somewhat short and pretty good arms for a 126 pounder.

I would agree.  When I was in high school I remember looking at how other kids did against my opponent.  Oh Tommy beat Bobby by 5 and I beat Bobby by 6 so I should be able to beat Tommy.  Then I grew up and started coaching and I realized that doesn't really matter at all and it drives me nuts when people talk like that.  Back in my day Plymouth had a wrestler named Hutchens that was a 2 x state champ I believe that would beat everyone 1 - 0.  No one could get out from under him.  If you can't take a person down and you can't get out.  You lose.  Sometimes the points you don't give up a way more important than they points you get.  But with that said Crume has an offense and is very quick.  

Good luck to both I hope I am in a position to see the match.  That is one thing I hate about State is if you are a coach and you have a kid wrestling, and your short the view of the other matches suck.

1. That on the third penalty for stalling, the opponent ? in addition to the penalty points ? be awarded the choice of position on the next restart.

2. When a takedown is secured, the wrestler shall be awarded two match points for the first takedown and three match points for each additional takedown.

3. When near-fall criteria is met for two seconds, the wrestler in the advantage position will be awarded three match points; when near-fall criteria is met for five seconds, the wrestler in the advantage position will be awarded four match points.

4. Allowing a wrestler to compete in six matches in any one day (championship or consolation), including forfeits.

5. Reducing the rest break between consecutive matches from 45 minutes to 30 minutes.

6. Making the straight-body scissors an illegal hold/maneuver.

I like the first one.  Other than that none of them look great to me.

I have would like to hear your feedback. For years I have felt we should switch to a new system for officiating.  Basically, we should switch at the semi-state and state level to the FILA model.  That is 3 officials for every match.  Moreover, 2 of the 3 must agree for any call to be registered on the scorecard.  I think the current model places an undue burden on a single official. Additionally, the assistant official in our current system has little real power and is only their to assist.  Do you think this would be a positive or a negative change?  Could Indiana experiment with this model at some local tournament first and who would have to greenlight such an experiment?

I would like 3 officials.  One to sit right next to me while I complain about the calls that I am not getting.  ;D ;D

Hate to say I told ya so.... But I told ya so. Lovejoy wins by pin

The only thing I can say is remember these are kids and please keep the posts classy they read them also.  Congratulations Lovejoy on a great day.

Thank you for posting about Frane being overrated.  This always helps add some fuel to our wrestlers.  I will say that Frane does keep allot of matches closer than they should be.  But sometimes it is not the points you get but the points you don't give up.  Like Krumlauf said he has been taken down once and that was a contested take down on the edge at that.  He has been beaten once by Forrest and if I was going to say anything about that is that Forrest is underrated.  He is a great little wrestler and intense and wrestled an outstanding match.  

Just to give you a run down though.

Frane has beat:

Win vs. Schurg (I think 3- 1)  Can't remember exactly  #5 Ranked Kid

Win vs. McGinley 3-1 # 13 Ranked Kid

Win vs. Harvey 5-1 # 8 Ranked Kid

Win vs. Gettinger 3-2 #10 Ranked Kid at 126

Oh yeah and he is a Connersville Champ and returning ticket rounder losing a close match to Kyle Jolas last year.

So you tell me where you would rank him?

I'm starting to think that nobody knows what the rules are anymore. Why dont we go to college boundry rules there so simple.

I would agree.  It seems like more and more wrestlers don't start wrestling till the get near the edge so that they have a safety net.

This is what I read.

Blah Blah Blah

 

Motivated kids, whether they win or lose, will rise to those challenges and learn a important life lesson regardless - Life is not fair,

I agree totally with life is not fair.

The bottom line is every good wrestling tournament gives a wrestler a chance to wrestle back for 3rd and 4th.  Why should our State Tournament be different?  Our kids will have plenty of opportunities to learn Life is not fair,  I would prefer it is learned somewhere else besides taking away a kids opportunity to participate in the State Tournament.

I also agree with the statement of "Take away a kids opportunity to fail and you take away his ability to succeed"  Which means to me not everyone deserves a medal.  But I also think we should not set our kids up for failure.

Every decision in wrestling should start with two questions. 1) Is this in the best interest of the kids? 2) Will this promote or hurt the sport of wrestling? obviously wrestle backs are in the best interest of the kid. I also believe that wrestle backs promote fairness and equality across the board.

 

There are three main variables that come into play for a kid on the way to state 1) performance 2) geographical location 3) The draw. Let's take a look at these and see how wrestle backs could help.

 

1) Performance: Obviously this should be the biggest variable of all but, sometimes it isn't. Here's an example....let's say a kid gets caught....legitimately caught....we have seen this from our top wrestlers in the country/world, our college stars to our Olympians, so I don't buy the comment "Don't get caught" if you've never been caught then you didn't wrestle many matches. In this instance doesn't wrestle backs seem to be the answer?

 

2) Geographical location: Huge impact on the road to state for any wrestler! You can have multiple ranked kids in Sectionals that feed into a Regional which gives that Regional a plethora of ranked kids and in fact causing wrestlers who deserve to go to Semi-state not to go. This obviously happens even more at the Semi-state level with loaded Regional feeders overloading a Semi-state. This is an unfortunate situation but, wouldn't it make it fairer to the wrestlers to make sure we send the very best top four by using wrestle backs?

 

3) Draw: We all know that performance should be the major factor but, unfortunately it is usually not. Most of the time it comes down to luck of the draw. I have seen it work both ways and have had kids get good and bad draws. Do we really want all of a kids work and sacrifice to come down to luck? Is that good for the kids? A Regional champion can draw a tougher ticket round match than someone who places third or fourth. Would wrestle backs help alleviate some of this?

 

We crown one state champion. We send 16 kids per weight to state. Shouldn't we as the adults be fighting to make sure we are giving our wrestlers the very best chance based on ability? Shouldn't performance be the largest factor on the road to state and not where you live or luck of  the draw?

Agreed.  Thanks for posting my thoughts. 

In my day you used be able to wear garbage bags and stand on your heads before we weighed in.  Wait, who cares about my day or your day.  Back in the 70's and 80's wrestling wasn't near as good as it is now in Indiana, don't kid yourself on that part.   Wrestling has been a major part of my life for over 20 years and I have only seen Indiana kids get tougher and tougher. When you say stuff like "only 2 got out of Sectionals"  it is because the Sectionals were smaller.  Just listen to the kids accolades now that get under the lights.   Most have been wrestling since they could tie their shoes and do it pretty much year round and allot of them do it nationally.  Sorry but our sport has evolved and we need to evolve with it.

I really don't like it when wrestling is compared to other sports because I was always taught that there is no other sport like wrestling and I believe it to be true.  The only question there should be "are wrestle backs what are best for the kids?"  And I think that is an easy answer.  

Just because you may have gotten screwed over in the past because of no wrestle backs doesn't mean kids in the future should.

All right it is that time a year.  Since we don't have wrestle backs like we should, we don't always get to see the best kids at State.  Let's hear some of those big Ticket Round matches.

At 113 #16 Forrest Glogouski hands #4 Frane his first loss of the season. The score was 3-2 but Forrest did even better than the score showed, very impressive showing.

Forrest wrestled really well.  I am hoping to see that in the finals at Semi-State.

I would agree with both Joe and Karl on your going to get more with honey.  But you would think an organization like the IHSAA would be bigger than petty issues with coaches and try to do what is best for the kids.

I really can't state it enough.  It is supposed to be about the kids.

So what is the answer?  A new association?  Dress code?  Lynch mobbing any rogue coaches? 

The IHSAA warned the IHSWCA numerous times about coaches bringing JV teams to team regional/semi-state.  They warned us and warned us....the IHSWCA did nothing and now team state is gone.  The IHSAA wants to work with well organized, well respected coaches associations, not a bunch of renegade coaches that will spite them at every turn.

I wish I could take this approach to my job.  "Hey look that looks like it is broke.  Should we fix it?  Nah we don't care for those people so why bother, lets set them up for failure, who cares if some kids get hurt in the process"  I would and should be fired in a second.

The thing is it is not about the coaches and the association.  It is supposed to be about the kids.  So why would the IHSAA not want to work with us to improve the sport for the kids.

Yes you are going to get coaches that do stuff out of spite because of things that have happened in the past.  It doesn't make it right and doesn't make what the IHSAA is doing right either.

I would agree with Karl in changing strategies.  You have to try something.  But it really really seems that they don't want to work with us.