swain358

So Joe quote me where I said I force kids to choose one sport? I'm sure you can find may quotes where I have said my kids choose what they want to do. Sawyer Miller is a great example of an incredible athlete that was able to do both sports. Out of curiosity, I would like to know which sport he trained the most during the spring and summer? I honestly don't know the answer and am not trying to imply anything. I would like to see his offseason regimate. And again 3 of our 5 semi state qualifiers were 2 sport athletes so it's possible for 2 sport athletes to get to that level as well.

Not saying they are wrong or right. I'm saying I personally don't think we should make a change to accommodate your argument of kids not having a fair shot because they are unable to put in the time to reach that level. And I'm explaining to you how it is possible for small school kids or kids in general no matter what school they go to can get to that level in our system if they want. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Borta went to CIA every day that it was available so he trained with the other kids that wanted to train in the fall. And trust me, Borta probably would not have had the success that he had if he would not have made the choice that he made. I coached him for 4 years and witnessed his development over the years so I think I am qualified to give my honest opinion on where he would have been without the extra training.

Karlhungus Actually Borta told the Head Football coach that he wanted to win a state title in wrestling and had no interest in playing football. He started out as a little guy and no other sport had interest in him until he blew up physically and blossomed into the physical kid that he became to be. Just like the rest of our kids, I told Borta to chase your dream and do whatever you want. Yes he probably could have helped another sport but that is not what he wanted to do, which is fine with me and should be fine with everyone. Joe Never did I say or imply that our system made Howe or Micic. I simply used them as an example to show you that small schools do have kids that want to only focus on wrestling and some have made that choice and obviously has seen success. They don't have as many (by choice) but small schools do have some. You implying that I said our system made Howe is again you assuming things. My entire argument has been that small school kids can get to the state tournament/placer/champ level if they want to put their time into it.. Has absolutely nothing to do with numbers and percentages that you guys post. All the percentages show is that small school kids aren't CHOOSING to train at that level. Which is FINE. You think we need a tournament to accommodate the kids that can't/wont for whatever reason put in the time to be at that level, I personally do not think we need to create a new individual tournament for that reason. I know 40+ states think the same as you, that's awesome for them. Me personally, I do not think so. As far as my schedule, from August to the end of the football season I do nothing with our high school wrestlers (most play a sport in the fall anyway). For those that don't play another sport, my assistants run weights and conditioning for them. My non fall sport kids also attend CIA in the fall. Once football is over I am strictly focused on wrestling until June. Once June hits, we have football (all fall sports program) lifting in the morning 7-830 then more football stuff until 10:30 am. Once I am done with football for the day, my wrestlers (all wrestlers including those that play fall sports) workout/drill/live etc. until 1pm, and this continues until August. It's a grueling schedule but we know it must be this way in order for our kids to get to the level that they want. Any other questions on how we try to maximize our kids potential at a small school?

And again, you guys aren't reading my post.. I gave you an example of a kid that does NOT want to play another sport. I just used Zac McCray's name because that's the name you gave. How about we change that name to Nick Borta, a kid that had no interest in any other sport and only wanted to wrestle. You do realize that that athlete also exist at small schools right? Andrew Howe, micic, just to name a few. So again, kids can play multiple sports and spend time training each sport equally which is fine.. But you guys seem to think that a kid that has no interest in another sport MUST play at a small school just to help the other sports.. If he has interest and wants to play that's perfectly fine with me. So do we agree that small school athletes have the same choice as big school kids to play other sports and train equally in each sport, play multiple sports but train wrestling more than the other sport, or only wrestle and train wrestling with the majority of their time?

You are still not answering my question though. Should Zac McCray at a small school be forced to play another sport if he does not want to? I definitely understand the dynamics.. But I also understand that kids have a CHOICE to do WHATEVER they want no matter what school they are at? Sounds like you think kids should be FORCED to do things they may not want to do for the good of the school. That's where we disagree. I've always said that if a kid wants to play multiple sports I am ok with it. If a kid only wants to wrestle, I am ok with that? How can you not figure that out from my post?

So you are saying that school size matters then right? Because if you are then that is the reason we have chosen to class athletics. So are you saying that the stud wrestler/ good football that really wants to reach his ultimate goal of being a state champion and wants to make the decision to focus only on wrestling in order to do something for HIMSELF that means ALOT to him, that kid has to sacrifice the time he could spend working hard to achieve his dream of getting a state wrestling title to instead spend his time playing football so he doesn't let down his team? And just because he is from a small school? That is the message I am getting from your example of Zach McCray. So kids at small schools should be forced to do all sports even if they do not want to? Is that what you are saying? I understand why kids doing other sports at small schools are important. I live that life everyday, but what I do not agree with is making a kid put his goal on hold for another sport if that's not what he wants to do. That seems to be what you are implying.

I tell kids to make their own decision and to not let anyone deter you from your life goals. If a kid has a goal to be a state level kid and CHOOSES to take advantage of every wrestling opportunity as possible that's his choice not anyone elses. Kids are smart enough to figure out the obvious on their own (more wrestling=more success) so as a coach, I do not have to tell kids that. Again, we had 27 kids on our team.. 23 are multi sport athletes so I do not see where you come to the conclusion that I tell kids not to do other sports. Of our 5 semi-state qualifiers, 3 were multi sport kids. Our kids that play 2 sports and really want to excel at wrestling train wrestling during their off season (either fall or spring). They aren't forced they CHOOSE to. So are big school kids that play multiple sports being punished as well? Are big school coaches that allow their kids to choose to be only wrestlers being bad coaches? Are big school kids that see the writing on the wall that the kids having a ton of success are those that wrestle a lot in the offseason and decide to focus on wrestling being led in the wrong direction? So a kid that is marginal at whatever other sport but a very good wrestler decides that he really wants to make a run at a state title and wants to focus all of his time on wrestling you would deter him from making that decision if that's truly his decision and his parents support his decision? You would tell that kid he should do the other sport even if he does not want to because it gets in the way of his true passion goal? That is what I am getting from your post. I am asking these questions because I want to make sure I am understanding you completely on this topic.

So are you saying that if one of your multi sport athlete really wants to focus on getting to the next level and he tells you that he does not plan on playing whatever his 2nd or 3rd sport is you will force him to play the other sport? You will push him out the door and forbid him from coming to your offseason practices? Fact is kids will do what they want to do. As coaches we should not make kids do anything that they do not want to do. So if a kid on my team is a very talented football player and wants to focus on that, I cannot and will not make him wrestle or even be mad at him for wanting to choose that path. It's the kids choice. Of our 5 semi state qualifiers this year 3 play other sports as well so obviously I do not make kids wrestle all year and it is possible to get to that level playing another sport but again, the more wrestling you do the greater you increase your wrestling abilities and chances to get to that level.

Obviously you did not read my entire post or you only choose to take part of my quote. I said that my kids make the CHOICE to wrestle in the off season because THEY want to be at a State Qualifier level. Nowhere in my post did I say that I MAKE kids wrestle all year. For the record 4 of my 27 kids are one sport athletes (only wrestling) which is fine with me. The others play another sport and some play two other sports which is fine with me as well. I also coach Football as well. So you have no idea what you are talking about when referencing my school and team. Fact is, according to Karlhungus and you, you would like an easier tournament to accommodate kids that play other sports or for whatever reason can't put in enough time to get to the state level. I am ok with your opinion. My opinion is that it's possible for small school kids to compete at the state level they just have to make some of the same sacrifices that those of big schools are making or what other state qualifiers are making. And I can only speak for at my school, the sport of wrestling has grown over the past 3-4 years. Hopefully it continues.

I gave you my opinion. You guys routinely rip people who say "kids that don't qualify for state are not working hard enough" and then you guys normally claim that small school kids work as hard if not even harder. Then karlhungus just said that the same thing (small school kids don't work as hard at wrestling as big school kids). I don't get it. If you want an easier tournament then come out and say it and I will respect your opinion. My opinion is that I like the tournament as it is and gave you guys examples of things that we are trying to do at a small school to enhance our chances of going to state. If other small or big school kids do not want to wrestle in off season as much as possible or needed to get to that state qualifier level then that is their choice. Those that do want to be at that level will. End of story.

You are right Y2.. Now that I reassess that idea I think we should just stay with 16 or down to 8 or 4 or 2..

I would be in favor of sending 20-24 kids to the state tournament though. Rewarding some of those kids that are right in that state placer/qualifier level that gets a bad draw or come from a loaded semi state etc. Take the top 5 from each semi state. If you place 5th at semi state you wrestle a pigtail match with a 4th place finisher for the chance to wrestle a semi state champ. That would make 4 extra matches per weight class at state if I'm not mistaken. State tournament would need to start 2 hours earlier in order to wrestle this round, then run everything else like normal. Just an idea I've been bouncing around with my assistant coaches lately.

So you are saying that you would like to see a new state tournament that rewards kids that cannot work as hard (for whatever reason multiple sports, not as interested in wrestling so no off season work, etc.)? I personally wouldn't want to change the state tournament for the reason you stated above. My answer to the solution would be to wrestle more if you want to be at that level. Make the sacrifice of another sport if being a state qualifier, placer, champion is what ur ultimate goal is. I by no means make my athletes choose to wrestle 300+ days but most know if you want to be at that level, wrestling and training a lot more than just during the season is what you have to do. And again, some choose to and some choose not to which is fine because it's their choice. Those that choose to wrestle and train 300+ days a year will greatly increase their chance of reaching that goal.. Simple as that.

So are you saying small school kids don't work as hard at becoming a state level wrestler in our current system as big school kids?

I did not teach at Anderson Highlang High School I only coached there (was in college finishing up my degree). I attended and wrestled at Anderson High school. I think I have a good idea of how things go at a big high school as well.

I teach and coach at North Montgomery High School 611kids I think....

1. Lack of practice partners -In my opinion as you build your program the partners will become better. Early on in the development of the program at a small school the numbers/practice partners may not be as good but eventually they can become better. 2. Big school kids 145 and below are mainly 1sport athletes. -Small school kids have the same option of being a 1 sport athlete as well. Most just choose not to which is fine but they are making that choice in sacrifice of getting more hours in the wrestling room or academies which will help develop their wrestling to hopefully state level. 3. Proximity to good off season training -If you want it bad enough you will get in your car, car pool, coach take mini bus, or do whatever it takes to get to places you need to develop your wrestling. CIA is approximately 75-90 minutes away from our school in my first year we had one kid attend CIA all spring and summer. After that kid had a ton of success the following season, we've steadily grown to 8-10 going to CIA every year. There were years where we would load up in the mini bus after school on Mondays and make the drive to Cathedral high school during rush hour traffic. Now we have kids that drive and are able to take their buddies. So if being on that state level is important enough you will find a way to get to the practices you need to be at. Are we the best team in the state? No.. Are we producing 5-6 qualifiers per year? No... (Last year I think we had 4-5 kids not qualify that had legitimate chances but it was not in the cards for them.. This year I think we had 3-4 kids that were legitimate state qualifier level kids as well but again it was not in the cards for them). I guess I just feel like it's possible to get to that level no matter your school size. It takes commitment outside of the season (as much as possible, 300+ days a year), commitment from parents, and a major commitment from coaching staff from elementary up through high school. And I am not saying that small school teams that don't have state qualifiers every year aren't committed but I am saying if you aren't on state qualifier level because you play 2 other sports and don't have the time to wrestle more then that's your choice.

In my opinion, this is the main reason why kids from small schools have trouble qualifying, placing, and winning state titles. Especially those kids in weight classes 160 and below. I have had the experience of coaching at what would be considered a big school (Anderson Highland) and a smal school (North Montgomery). Small school kids(106-160) have more opportunities to compete at the varsity level in other sports since the population of athletes at their schools are much lower. If possible, I would like to see the breakdown of state qualifiers, placers, and champs (106-160) that are also varsity athletes in other sports. I'm personally not in favor of classing the individual tournament. I tell my wrestlers "If your goal is to compete at the level of state qualifier, placer, champion, you need to train at that level 365 days a year and for as many years as possible". We have some guys that buy into that mindset and training and we have some that don't.

84x42.. We fit 2 full mats perfectly in our room. We average 25-30 kids per year and 2 mats seem like the perfect size. North Montgomery High School