sb25

I understand that, what I was saying is that there are ways around seniority based on what subject they teach, not that they are RIFed from their coaching, which isn't possible. Nobody is safe anywhere and if they continue with the plan to do away with contracts and pay scales nobody will be safe with any amount of experience.

I gotcha now. A lot of people don't realize how complicated a process RIF'ing can be.  One position can affect staffing at multiple schools within the corporation.

I have a feeling there will be a lot of coaches losing jobs. Wonder how many basketball and football coaches will be RIFed, I'll wager fewer than the "smaller" sports.

I don't think even the basketball and football coaches are safe right now thanks to Mitch.  Actually, people aren't getting RIF'ed from their coaching jobs, but rather their teaching positions. Some of the contracts may state that they won't get RIF'ed if they are coaching a particular sport, but I haven't heard of too many. It comes down to seniority in the classroom and licensing.

I thought we were talking about "TODAY." Who are the mosy influentual people in Indiana TODAY...

 

Does Mac do anything for BG anymore? Mac's a legend but he's done and has been for years. Coack Morris has withdrawn too and I expect to see less of him after Duncan is gone. That's a guess, but I bet it's a good one. Bill Bane is one of the greatest men I've ever known. But these guys belong on another list. With the exception of Coach Morris, a guy who could have a HUGE Jim Humphrey-sized impact on Indiana wrestling if he could/would make the time commitment.

 

A lot of these guys being mentioned have had a tremendous and lasting impact on the sport, but they're hardly influencing the direction of the sport  in Indiana today.

I see your point about "TODAY". However, if you want to call out Bob Morris, I disagree. You say he "could have aHUGE Jim Humphrey-size impact on Indiana wrestling if he could/would make the time commitment." Hasn't he already done this?  I was on  the team that was one of the first to compete at Cadet Nationals from Indiana in 86. If I remember correctly, Bob was the man who organized the USAW events. He got the ISWA and USAW to work together. Before that, you wrestled ISWA State and a separate USAW state to make the team.

Furthermore, you mention that you speculate Bob not contributing much after this year beacause Seve Duncan is graduating. Isn't this the same thing Hump did when Reese graduated? Bob has held more offices than Jim and always coached for free whether it be at Bloomington North, Perry or BG.

Like I said, I see your point about the past, but don't call out Bob when he's done more for amatuer wrestling in Indinana than most others on the list that you failed to call out.

Wow... couldn't disagree more strongly.

 

I can tell you for certain that a great number of greco techniques/moves are usable in folkstyle.

 

I would even go as far to say IMO if you have wrestlers in the upper weights you would be doing them a huge disservice by not requiring them to wrestle greco.

 

As far as folkstyle being the only game in town.. that is not true either and some very dedicated people are working very hard to promote and increase participation in freestyle and greco in this state to help improve the overall wrestling skills of Indiana wrestlers.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with ccbig, wrestling is wrestling. There are 7 basic skills and they are applied to all styles.

All the rule changes are frustrating for coaches and probably more so for parents who don't have a wrestling background. That is why I think it's losing popularity. More parents have probably been exposed to folkstyle wrestling in some way growing up and are more likely to keep their kids in it because it's a little easier to follow. Also, many would much rather support a school team at a week night dual than sit in a hot gym all day to see kids wrestle for their club and not be able to follow team scores.

I don't buy the "badge of honor" thing.  I've seen some wrestlers who haven't put in the time on the mat get cauliflower ear, it just happened.  It's a little bit like a tattoo everyone can see.  Really cool when you're young but when you're sitting across the table for an important job interview, you'll probably wish you didn't have the tat or your ears didn't look like hamburger.  If you plan on a career in the UFC, by all means mangle your ears up good otherwise try to avoid it.

I agree. It's also another way we shoot ourselves in the foot when trying to promote our sport. Parents that have never been around the sport are reluctant to let their children participate in an activity that is going to deform their appearance for life.

Jimtown, I had the same procedure done (also called a button) to fix one of mine in college. It was an extremely painful procedure and not one I wish on any of my wrestlers. However, it was effective.

I'm definitely not saying if Mater Dei can do it everyone can.  What do the numbers look like if the only school you take out is Mater Dei since they skew things so much?

 

It looks like there is a greater impact going from the all schools category to having the top 5 taken out (which would obviously include Mater Dei), than the incremental changes that are seen when the top 10, top 15, and top 20 are taken out.  

 

Not sure what the Beech Grove numbers prove, other than at one time they were a successful small school and now aren't doing as well as they were.  

 

And again, even if the numbers without Mater Dei show some difference, the "distinct advantages" aren't as dramatic as the 3x greater advantage you have argued in the past.  For example, with the numbers you have provided so far, in the instance where you take out the top 15, the big school group has 75.45% of the students and 78.93% of the state qualifiers.  This 3.48% difference comes out to less than 8 wrestlers in a year (224 state qualifers x 3.48%).

Speaking of Beech Grove, didn't Sacksteder leave a successful North Central team to coach there? Also, why do you not consider them successful anymore?

What coaches will be there? Does anyone show technique or is it mainly live wrestling? Also, do kids need their USAW cards?

I got to admit, I'm a little disappointed in the number of people on this thread who like Howl at the Moon that much. I always thought it was more for bachelorette parties than former wrestlers. I had most of you pegged for The Pub, Ike's, or Have a Nice Day type guys.

Karl broke it down perfectly.. i couldn't agree more.. and although i read were someone wanted bloomington south up one group.. i would have to say unfortunatly (not a BS fan at all.. haha) that they will be up there soon.. they are a force to be reckoned with for sure.. they just haven't been on that level for as long as some of the teams listed in the top (that i know of)..... so soon.. they will be considered "elite" by karls breakdown..

Doesn't Bloomington have more team and individual titles than any other school in the state? I would say they have been "elite" for quite some time.

This is an accurate analysis.  Well put.

I agree with the criteria but might rank them a little differently. I'd rank results/history as number 1. Isn't that what it's all about if you want to be considered elite? Coaches and support (I'm guessing this means families/school administrators) will change over time. I may even throw out expectations. If you are an elite program, you expect to be at the top every year.

I disagree with all of you saying that it is too difficult to get someone to run a clock. Many D2 and D3 schools have fewer resources than most high schools and they manage to find someone to do it. Does anyone on the boards remember the old, small clocks that sat on top of the score table? I don't think it required a college degree to run one.

Next, college referees also call stalling on the top guy way better than any high school official I've seen in Indiana. If they would call the top guy more for riding hips and ankles or even for riding legs without attempting a turn, this wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Finally, I need some help on this, but didn't they have riding time back in the 60's or 70's in high school? I thought someone once told me a wrestler earned one point for each minute of riding time.

I just think riding is a lost and under appreciated art of the sport.

I like your idea, but shouldn't you exclude those who did not make the show on account of injuries or disciplinary issues? Wrestle backs wouldn't matter for either of those.

Who wrestled 119 for PM? I hope Clem is ready to go this weekend at Regional.

Duck keep it up ,the single class drums need to keep  beating on this web site until these young ins realize that   the Indiana  High School one class , may be the best in the United States today for the schools, students , and the state.

Exactly, that's why our kids dominate in Fargo and the NCAA's compared to all those other ignorant states that have classes.

Just for fun, strickly fun.  Lets do a Cathedral vs Perry on paper, all time meet.  You can not use Lance at more than  one weight class!!!!

Do we get to use Schoettle once for each team?

My grandparents came to watch my son wrestle and they can barely walk on there own I guess if someone wants to come and show support to a wrestler they will do so!! They was only able to watch one match the semi finals but at least they came. It is what it is!! I can not remember if they have ever had a set time for the finals. Bring your concerns up next year there is some great wrestling to be talked about!

I'm glad your grandparents were able to attend. I'm not sure why you seem so offended by my posts. I think people like your grandparents and others who enjoy wrestling but do not necessarily want to sit in a gym all day would benefit from knowing what time rounds begin. Maybe my old age is kicking in, but I seem to remember bigger crowds for the finals that used to start at 6 than for the quarter's at 9 a.m. on Saturday or for the prelims that used to be on a Thursday night for that matter.  It just seems to me, that some of our so called "true fans", shoot themselves in the foot when trying to promote our sport. Do we want to get out in the shortest amount of time possible or do we want to do what is best for the athletes and our sport? This issue is addressed every year, but every year the powers that be seem to vote on the side of expediency.

I do consider myself a true wrestling fan and have been around this tournament over twenty years. That is why I think you set a time and stick to it like they have in the past. How can you promote the sport when nobody knows what time the finals are going to be? This is supposed to be one of the more prestigous tournaments in the state so why wouldn't you run it similar to the state finals or NCAA's? Neither one of those tournaments expect the fans to "deal with this kind of problem."

I was not trying to put down to Decatur. I was just trying to start a discussion on how we can make this better, or learn from this mistake. It seems some posts are mixing things together. This is not ISWA, and I'm aware of the fact that things happen that shake up the seeding and such. If they need help running it, they need to ask other schools to help. Not having a 'family' is an excuse. You want to run the tournament, then get the number of people you need to help.

However, this is a pretty big tournament, and starting an HOUR late is simply unacceptable.

 

As for the finals, getting "out of there at a pretty decetn time," was the problem. You have to set a time, and stick with it if you want fans to come watch. I doubt a county tournament for basketball starts an hour or so early, EVER.

I agree that "getting out of there at a pretty decent time" is a problem. How about clearing the floor so it doesn't look like a hillbilly picknick, and showcasing your athletes on 1 mat, and at a time where more people can attend the finals the weekend before Christmas?

I am keeping track of Jeffersonville, but as of right now, I'm not sure if they've beaten anybody that was on the list before.

I agree with Chris. Also, they finished ahead of Warren Central and Columbus North in the Capital City Classic who were both ranked at the time. Or, do you only look at dual meet records for the team rankings?

Look what Spencer and the coaches are doing at Pike...Talk about turning around a program in a short period of time....

What are they doing? I haven't heard much about them.

Cat,  I was just making note that being on the Southside of Indianapolis I have notice that the staff at Perry and Roncalli have made some pretty good progress in the wrestling programs. Perrys staff is at almost every youth tournament with there kids. They groom these kids from day one. I see those same kids wrestling for there HS. I don't ever see them gaining a "move in" wrestler. They coach these kids from day one. IMO I just see how well they do with the kids from the start to there 12 th. grade year. I think with what they get they do a awesome job putting a team together year in, year out. As far as Roncalli. Ellis and his staff have done (in such a short time) awesome job with the kids they also get. To his credit, he may coach a kid at a young age thru his 8th. grade and lose him to a public school because of the tuition cost of the private school. If both of the programs had such the " move in" wrestler in the program they might be sitting with a couple Team State Titles.  Just my opinion...

 

Isn't Caliboy's son a move-in?

I agree that Lance has done a nice job in a small amount of time. However, you seem to act like coaching at a private school is a handicap because of tuition costs. Do you think he could have had the same amount of success if he were at a public school? For example, do you think he would have had that success at Speedway or Broad Ripple?

Again... I guess if anyone could give me one example where there was a extreme difference in the result of the Wrestlers life (for the positive) I would promise to not discuss this subject ever again.

So if you lived in the IPS system, you dont think there would be a difference if you transfered to Warren, LN, LC, Pike Ben Davis, North Central, or any of the other township schools? Not only would you most likely recieve a better education, you would have much better facilities as well.

Warendad,

Although I generaly agree with your posts, I have to disagree here. First, I've worked in IPS. There are plenty of competent educators in the district and students who take advantage of the opportunities given them. Education starts in the home. If it isn't valued there, it doesn't matter where you go to high school. Next, what about all the kids who are bussed to township schools? Unfortunately, many of them are not playing sports, not passing ISTEP, and not graduating high school. Is it really making a difference in their lives? Furthermore, the schools you mentioned may have better facilities, but how would you then argue the success of the Catholic schools who have some of the worst facilities in the Metro Area? Finally, despite these nicer facilities, they still face many of the same problems as IPS. Some of the worst neighborhoods in Indy feed into the districts you mentioned.

Warren also has Decker and 2 more transfers, plus the best coaches in the state. I think Warren is a lock.

Warren has some good kids, but "the best coaches in the state" is a pretty strong statement. They are a young and unproven staff. Whoever comes out of this sectional would be my pick for making it to team state. It seems to me to be up for grabs between Roncalli, WC, New Pal, and BG.

If he lives in Warren Township, which I think he does,  does this rule still apply? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

i know im gonna be sportin my pro power shirt this weekend at my freestyle tournament

thanks chris for everything

 

I'll be sporting my school colors at the NCAA's this weekend!