ENoblewrestling

Just curious how did they do at the smaller schools before the big ones, I know that I heard that Harper was really changing BC around before he left. 

One of the arguments that I hear for class wrestling is that the good coaches leave small schools and go to bigger schools for more success.  I am not saying that this does not happen, but I am just wondering situations were it has occurred.  Again im just trying to get some discussion going, I am not saying it does not happen, I can think of Randy Kerby as an example going from Bluffton to Columbia City.  What I do feel is that it doesn't happen very often.

I think coaching changes occur more often than not do to teaching oppurtunities than for coaching success.  I may be mistaken but I just dont think that these moves happen that often.

I also found this interesting.  This is a link to the football coaching changes from 07-08.  I do not notice alot of the coaches going from small schools to big schools on this list.

http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/foot2008/coaching_changes.htm

One final thing that I think we could discuss under this topic is the idea of elite coaches, and where they came from.  Did they start at a small school?  Did they start at the bigger school?  what kind of success would they or did they at a small school?  Just trying to cause soome disscussion, so dont jump my case if im wrong on this, i just cant think off of the top of many head  coaches going to big schools after having success at small schools.

I have said this numerous times, I do not think that it is bad for the sport.  You class guys obviously do, I dont.  I have seen arguments from both sides that are fact based and well thought out.  I honestly feel that the non-classed side arguments are just as good, if not better in more ways than the classed sides.  Again I think they both have valid points.

Speaking of coaches having some power to change the situation, do you know when the results from the IHSWCA survey are coming out?  That will give us a real insite on the coaches thoughts.

I posted this article half- kidding around.  I agree with a lot about what you guys have said.  One thing in the article that I did agree with was the fact that it called one class basketball in Indiana an institution;  that in the authors opinion should not have been tainted.  I also agree whole heartedly with what Trent said about the team portion being classed.  It is not fair for big schools to compete against little schools, on a team basis.  But in terms of our individual tournament would you not agree that it is a speacial "institution"  unique in many ways to Indiana, and something that we need to protect, and think very seriously about before changing drastically?    I know this could be seen as an old fashoned, backwards attitude, but I coach at a small school, and while I know that all of my guys won't make it to state under the current system I am alright with that, because I know that when someone does make it they have accomplished something in a superior system, one that is Indiana's own.  I really think there is something to be said for that.

I believe when Mater Dei was in their run they got up to somehere in the 8-12 range.

If Elmhurst closes does anyone know what will happen with their kids and coaches as far as wrestling goes?  Elmhurst may not be Mishawaka, but they seem to have a nice thing going there.  I think that Coach Brownlee has done a great job, and that things really seemed to be building there.  Anyone know were their kids of coaches will end up going to?  They have some pretty tough guys coming back.  Over ther years, the Geyers, and a couple years ago they had a good heavy I can't recall his name, they have had some solid individuals.  Anyhow if the kids end up at Wayne, I think that Wayne could have something nice going.  I also think that Coach Brownlee should resurface somewhere and continue coaching because he is doing a great job a Elmurst.  Good luck to all involved.

O.K. well if they are fishing, adn we bite then I feel that the recruiting could and would start.  I'd bet if one of our guys reponded to the letter from small town college in Nebraska,  then we would probably get to emailing and talking to the college coaches.  Our guys talk to the instate guys all the time.  So if thats not recruiting I dont know what else it would be, also if the letters mean nothing and they are just "fishing"  then why would they send them out, just to waist paper?

I was speaking to the number of kids participating, not the results, that to me seems like the colleges issue not the high schools.

Ya but our kids have the choice to reply to them or not.  I would bet if our guys really showed some interest in the schools that the schools would really be interested in some of our guys.  My guys thus far have made the decision not to wrestle in college.  Some have chose to go to big state schools, the military or to participate in other sports.  If they wanted to get the discussion going with those schools they could have, but again chose not to.  Also if letters from schools are so easy to get then why do only my top kids get them?  Wouldn't they be addressed to me, or to the A.D. and not personally to the kids?

Just throwing this out there with all of this talk of exposure.  I was just going through my mailbox here at school, and one of my wrestlers had a letter from a school in Wisconsin.  I have not noticed any problem with getting my guys recruited here at a small school.  We have had state qualifiers and semi-state qualifiers get letters all the time from schools.  We have had two kids that had not made it out of sectionals going into their senior seasons get looked at and talked to by in-state schools.  I personally have not seen any problem with our guys getting recruited at all.  If they are talented coaches pick up on that.  The kids that don't get looks are simply not that good, flat out, they are not good enough to wrestle at the next level and the coaches know it.  

A coach can tell how talented or athletic a kid is by seeing him wrestle.  I dont buy the argument that classing the individual tournament is going to change anything as far as recruitment goes.

I think that the bigger problem as far as D-2, D-3 schools go is that with the cost and the amount of effort that goes into wrestling at the college level it is not something that makes sense for a lot of kids.  The private (d2, d3) schools cost a lot of money.  They do not have atheletic scholarships, so you need to either have your acedemics or fanangle a way to get scholarships/ grants.  In the end it will probably still cost you more money then going to a state school and just paying your way, and imo you don't get as good of a degree (sorry private school guys).  You also have to factor in the commitment that wrestling in college takes, and I think that our lack of D2, D3 guys comes more from the want to do it than hoe much we are getting recruited.  I thnk our guys would rather have fun and enjoy college at a state school, rather than putting in the commitment to wrestle at a smaller school.

The response to this will be why do so many kids choose to (insert sport) at that level?  The reason is those other sports are not as hard, and do not take the comittment that wrestling does.  The other sports also offer more recogneition than what d2, d3 wrestling does.  I also dont think that our guys are doing so horrible at the d2, d3 level.  Look at oiour instate schools they are filled with Indiana kids.

Also I know its an opinion piece so dont jump down my throat about that, just an interesting article.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100302/SPORTS15/3020329/1160/SPORTS0203/At-100-high-school-basketball-tourney-is-ailing

Good article about the what class basketball's effect on basketball.  Don't let it happen to us. 

I am one of those people who see the 75/ 25 break down as what it should be given that 75 percent of kids go to big schools.  I also do agree that numbers make a difference in how many indivduals a team takes to state, but what I dont agree with is that we need to have a separate tournament so that we can compete, I dont believe that to be true.  

Also if we are trying to get recognition to all of the deserving atheletes doesn't a classed system acctually screw the big school kids who would not be recognized for making because they dont make it to the big class state, when the same recognition of being a stater goes to a small school kid who was at such a disadvantage that a completly new tournament needed to be made for them, or would we justs have to recognize that making it in the small school tourny is not as much of an accomplishment?  You really cant have it both ways.

I agree Y2, but I think that shows that the team portion should be classed.  It doenst mean that a single individual from a small school, or small state can't compete.  

Just wandering if anybody else has thought about how open the team state championship looks for next year.  In my opinion it is the most open that I have seen it since switching to the dual format.  I think it will still be the ussual teams involved, but I really dont think that there is a heavy favorite going into next year.

Y2 why is Florida better than us in Football, Baseball, Basketball as well.  I would say that it comes down to the fact that they have more Atheletes and possibly that atheletics takes on an increased importance for what ever reason in their state.  Also doesnt Brandon's dominance skew their wrestling numbers a bit?

Thanks

Are you guys starting next week or this week?

I got a letter in the mail yesterday from a group known as Indiana Extreme which is starting a club in Fort Wayne.  Its going to be at Snider so that is an option in Fort Wayne.  I have never met or seen them in action but they are tied to Michigan Extreme who have very impressive numbers a lot like CIA, but they are in a classed state so the numbers are scewed a bit (half joking).  Anyhow if it is anything like what I have seen at CIA practices it will be a great asset to Fort Wayne wrestlers willing to put in the time and effort.  

Also I agree with what Y2 put the best room in the area is at Garrett, we try to push all of our kids there on Weds.  nights.  Y2 is your time and clinician list out yet?

This was the first year for the Homestead Super Duals and it had 8.

Busco-1

Homestead-3

South Adams-1

Marion-1

Heritage-1

Snider- 1

Im pretty sure if you look at semi-staters it had alot.

Busco-3

Homestead- 4 or 5

Marion-4

South Adams 4 or 5

Heritage 4 or 5

Snider-2

The "gateway to state" is the Rochester John Mckee Invite right? 

Norton also placed third last year, I think that shows he has ability to beat top competition

Braxton Siddons was JV at Carrol last year  and a semi-state qualifier for Churubusco this year.

First off I want to start by saying that I feel horrible for the wrestlers, coaches, and fans that were involved in the mess that was the Jay County Regional.  I cannot believe that this happened to these wrestlers, and that their seasons had to end that way.  With that situation obviously comes anger, and frustration with the powers at the IHSAA.  I have also read many people pushing for lawsuits, boycotts, and peoples jobs.  Another thing that keeps coming across is anger and hostility toward the IHSAA because we feel as though wrestling is treated badly by the association.

While all of these accusations, and feelings of anger may be just, I feel that we as a sport, and as a community would be better served to focus on the positive aspects of our sport, and what the IHSAA offers us.  We need to come together, and instead of using our anger in negative ways, and fighting and protesting something that will not be changed, and use it positivly.  If we want to show that we wont be pushed around and treated as second fiddle we need to come together.  Set attedence records, and show our support for those still in the tournament, and for the sport we love.  Instead of being a divided group we need to come out in droves to show that our sport is important, and that we have a strong enough fan base, that we have a say and that we will not be treated this way.

There is also a great amount of anger toward the IHSAA right now, and rightfully so.  We need to look at were we would be with out them and the service that they provide.  The IHSAA state finals is the pinicle of our sport.  While the ISWA put forth a great service those events at least in my mind are tune ups, and provide a chance to get better for the IHSAA tournament.  Without the IHSAA our sport would die.  Other than true die hard wrestlers there would be very few if it were not for the IHSAA and the services that they provide.  So while I think that they screwed the Randolph County kids horribly we also need to remember how much we enjoy and look foward to the finals.  Again I think we need to come together right now, instead of tearing ourselves, and or sport apart.