matts

I have zero evidence of this, and only say this based on interviews, etc...

The difference to me is that Jason seems much happier than Alex did...actually anyone who has wrestled for Iowa lately.  Jason comes off the mat with a win smiling and making jokes, and the Hawks come off the mat victorious and pi$$ed off.

Just an observation.

Pretty sure this will be a technical violation on this board...  Oh well.

are you trying to say that the deck is stacked against some of these teams as far as sectional alignment goes?

Hasn't that always been the case?  Remember all the numerous threads about the "Meat Grinder" regional at Pike/Greenfield Central.  Many called it an IHSAA conspiracy to weed out most of Indianapolis and give some other schools a chance to progress through the tournament. 

Brebeuf has had place winners... Marlon Stewart was a champ and Greg Niebarger was 3rd or 4th in the early 90s.

Brebeuf had Corey Williams who was a two or three time place place winner and went on to wrestle at UNC Greensboro.  I am sure there are a few others from Brebeuf when the late Dave May was their coach.  I think when Stewart was a senior Brebeuf finished top five or ten in the state.

I feel like the Blind School also had Mike Dixon in the mid to late 80s who qualified for state....or maybe semi-state.  He was inspiring and fun to watch as he rarely ever lost.  He was very quiet, needed to be guided to the center of the mat, and when the whistle blew was a very different person.

I also want to thank all involved in bringing us this tournament over the web. Were a few streaming issues but overall a good job and Thank You !

Agree.  The finals went great.

Thank you!  It is 7:04 AM on Saturday and a rainy dreary morning here in Jakarta, Indonesia.  I am happily sitting on my couch with a hot cup of coffee watching the Friday night State Finals live.  This is so awesome.

If I had a daughter I would absolutely point her to soccer.

I just don't see how you could say they "truly deserve it."  At md, most of those kids go to the feeder schools. Cathedral has kids from greenwood, new pal, etc.  How do they deserve it?  Just cause they haven't achieved it?  I really wouldn't say that if the first time those kids saw Cathedral's wrestling room wasn't their frosh year.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Cathedral has exactly zero feeder schools.  It is not part of the Indianapolis Archdiocese Schools whereas MD is part of the Evansville Diocese Schools.  Cathedral is a private high school unto itself.  One could make the argument that Cathedral gets Bishop Chatard's kids that come out of the Archdiocese schools, but so does Brebeuf, Park Tudor, North Central, LN, LC...  Heck, the whole north side of Indianapolis is a little bit unique compared to most areas of the state as it is dense with great high schools and with great programs in academics, athletics, performing arts, etc...  Perhaps so many championships land in that part of Marion County because so many schools have to raise their game to compete for the same kids.

If there was ever a school in Indiana that has consistently, year in and year out, produced quality wrestling teams, it is Cathedral.  In my mind, if there was ever a school without a state title that deserves to hang a banner in their gym, it is Cathedral...even if it kinda pains me to say that (In a fun way of course).

If you are like me in your late 30s or 40s and grew up around Indianapolis or a certain school in Muncie, your view of the Fighting Irish is probably influenced by an amazing hall of fame coach.  Love or hate Coach Rhodes, no one can debate his teams were always beyond tough.  If you ever wrestled his kids or coached against him, win or lose, you inevitably walked away pretty much beat up.  In thirteen years we were only able to beat Cathedral once when we were at our best and they were in a building year while transitioning coaching staffs.  A year later Coach McGuinley and company came back to our gym and pretty much handed us our heads.   

Today, I am long removed from Indiana, coaching, and only get to follow wrestling as best I can through the internet and a few friends.  Looking back and with some distance I have no doubt that Cathedral, its history, its hard-nosed style, and even its controversy was and is only good for Indiana wrestling.  I would love for them to finally win a title.  So good luck to the entire Cathedral program, past and present, y'all truly deserve a long, long overdue championship.

That horrible problem where the best full roster teams got together and battled it out to see who could put together the best line up? Thanks, IHSAA!

Don't forget to thank the coaches who sent their JV teams to wrestle through the IHSAA team state series...Or the fans who never once came to Center Grove and/or left before the finals.  Like it or not, the Indiana wrestling community was its own worst enemy proving year in and year out that Team State was a second class citizen compared to the individual tourney.  Perhaps the IHSAA took the team tournament away, but we spoon fed them all the ammo they needed.

Cathedral lost 3 duals and are possibly going to win the "team" state title

So what's your point?  State champion teams should be undefeated in the regular season to be true state champions?  Minnesota, Iowa, and Penn State have all lost regular season duals this year.  If Minny wins at NCAAs, should we hold their loss to Michigan over their head?   

Say all you want about the economic conditions of Carmel and its kids not being tough, but that school wins state championships (including BB and Football).  If Indiana had been in it's current format, Carmel would of won a state title in wrestling in 1997.  It is only a matter of time before Coach P's teams are going to be incredibly scary.   

________________________________________

STATE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS

Boys' Basketball - 1977, 2012, 2013

Boys' Cross Country - 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1987, 1988, 1993, 1996, 2008, 2012, 2013

Football - 1978, 1980, 1981, 1986, 1989, 2007, 2011

Boys' Golf - 1970, 1971, 1982, 1989, 1990

Boys' Soccer - 1985, 1987, 1991, 2006

Boys' Swimming - 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2010, 2011, 2012

Boys' Tennis - 1980, 1981, 1987, 2003, 2004, 2010, 2011, 2012

Boys' Track - 2000

Girls' Basketball - 2008

Girls' Cross Country - 1982, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

Girls' Golf - 1980, 2013

Girls' Soccer - 1984, 1985, 1988, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2011

Softball - 1994, 2011

Girls' Swimming - 1981, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013

*27 consecutive state championships (1986-present) which is longest active state championship streak in the nation in any sport.  Source:  National Federation of State High School Associations.

Girls' Tennis - 1989, 1990, 2003, 2009, 2011, 2013

Girls' Track & Field - 1998, 1999

Competition Cheerleading - 2000, 2005, 2006

---------------------------

More stats:

IHSAA Most State Championships

Updated through 2013 Spring State Tournaments.

Total School

114 Carmel

58 North Central (Indianapolis)

34 Columbus North (Columbus)

28 Bloomington South (Bloomington)

26 Anderson

26 Ben Davis

26 Indianapolis Cathedral

25 Gary Roosevelt

23 Muncie Burris

22 Valparaiso

21 Warren Central

Loved watching this and brought back many memories. The lat drop at the end is sick.  Plus, as an extra bonus, we get to hear the running commentary and musical whistles of the most humble, friendly, and serene coach in Indiana's history (cough, cough).

If you go all time......

One and two are obviously Bloomington and EMD.  I do not think there is much debate there. 

I would venture the next three are pretty interchangable:  Bellmont, LN, and Delta...but maybe not Delta.  It has been a long time since they have been in the race.  Bloomington (now South) still produces great teams and multiple state champs.  So does LN and Bellmont. 

...so maybe PM.  If Perry Meridian wins this year then they have a HUGE case to join the top five...if they don't already.

...and what about Hammond High School?

I think for overall reputation as being one of the ten all-time best programs (excluding the top five) one would look at decades of constantly super-tough teams.  Cathedral is absolutely part of that picture even without a state title.  So is Warren Central and Mishawaka. 

Wow.  Didnt this almost exact injury occur in Indiana just a few months ago?

http://fox59.com/2013/05/02/cascade-high-school-track-coaches-accused-of-delivering-overly-harsh-punishment/#axzz2ZU6nelUk

Hey Nick- I like what you said and, despite your humility, I think you write pretty darn well.  THe "team" pics are also very compelling.  That being said, when we (the wrestling community) point fingers at the IHSAA and team state, we need to remember we played significant part in its demise.  The team state series was always a second class citizen compared to the individual events while the Coach's Trophy and, more importantly, JV rosters at regionals did us no favors.  The IHSAA was certainly the #1 enemy of team state, but many of US were a close second.       

In preperation for HS competition I actually think he's improve greatly from even that point.  CJ has definitely put in the work needed over the summer.  A year ago I would have still ranked him decently high based on his previous accomplishments, but after his matches at Super 32 against HS guys like Lee he's definitely a title threat. 

Cool.  Thanks.

So I have to ask.  Why is CJ Red (9) at 106 ranked #1?  Seriously, I am not asking this in a challenging manner as I know there is reason as I started hearing about him last year.  I just do not why; I am a little out of the loop and am curious about his accomplishments.  Is he potentially the next Alext T. or Angel E.?  Thanks in advance!  

How about move Jake Obrien up to heavy and insert Nate Moore from Perry Meridian at 220.

"

Matts, I hope we are on the same page...

 

 

Total bunch of scrubs listed here...

Kenny Monday's fireman's has ceased to work in a match since 1997, due to wrestling changing so much.

John Smith's low single did not lead him to an undefeated run at his second Olympic gold medal, and then immedietely stopped working on every one in the world.  His demo. tapes are now sold at wrestling meets as novelty gifts to the aged and once flexible.

Terry Brands has no technique and can't coach at a high level due to his insistance upon his definition of the Iowa style: collar and tie, underhook, snap, then hip push your opponent out of bounds while signalling for stalling without actual moves ever being attempted.

Lance Ellis's 151 pins would not translate into today's success because pins in the 80's relied heavily upon a Hair Band playing a guitar rift to signal the referee of the fall, while most high schools do not even have their high school band at wrestling meets, and arenas play more pop hits than 80s rock ballads.  Also, what very little people know, Ellis was born throwing laterals with his foot in the air, and with today's wrestlers, that wouldn't work, and since he did not work to develop the skills that lead him to 180-0, he would probably just be a JV wrestler at most high schools. 

 

 

Great post.  Love the line" ...aged and once flexible."  you could add the phrase "...and usually sore." 

This isn't coach matt schoettle, just so everyone knows.

This is true.  Sorry, Zach.  By we I meant those of us who wrestled in the same era as Coach Ellis and Coach Schoettle.

Wrestling was also not as advanced back then, as it is now.  Brooks.

This is true.  In the late 1980s and into 1990 America's best wrestlers were now dinosaurs such as John Smith, Dave Schultz, Andre Metzger, Gene Mills, Randy Lewis, Kenny Monday, Bill Scheer, and Bruce Baumgarter.  Top college wrestlers included Kendall Cross, Tom Brands, Royce Alger, Zeke Jones, Terry Brands, and Kurt Angel.  None of these guys would stand a chance in today's advanced wrestling world.  The technique and training of today would simply overwhlem them to allow sucess 20+ years later.   They would not know what was hitting them as the sport has changed so much since then.

;D

The short polyester singlets and long mullets we all sported back then would of provided enough power to dominate any of today's kids...even Brooks.

Lance, as I remember, had a pretty sick mullet.  Advantage +10 Ellis. 

I seem to remember someone from either LN or Beech Grove almost...and I stress almost...beating Ellis.  But really, Lance, and that whole era of Cathedral Wrestling, was beyond tough.  It still amazes me the Irish have never won a team state title.  I would bet they have more team runner-up awards than any other school.

If I had a kid, I would make sure he/she was the oldest in his/her class for a number reasons: academics, social skills, athletics or other extra curricular activities, maturity...name it.  Honestly, I cannot think one negative reason to starting one's kid late, take a year out to home school, repeat a grade in an advanced class, whatever.  It certainly would of benefitied a number of students I had who were immature in 9th grade yet came back for their sophomore years much stronger in all areas of their lives.  

I am open to opposing thoughts and would love to hear the negatives of starting one's son/daughter a year later than others.