fwrestler

Lecount down by 1 with 30 seconds left, gets a reversal and locks up the inside cradle for the pin with 10 seconds on the clock.  Wow

Sinkovics over Cottey 5-2, Forte and Lecount up now

At Mooresville:

126: McCormick (Yorktown) over Belden (Westfield) 1-0

152: Kelley (Evansville Central) over Carroll (Yorktown) 5-2

He is currently in surgery, any and all prayers are welcomed.  He is in the thoughts and prayers of the Homestead wrestling family as well.

Which proves that they are a below average Big 10 team, but doesn't prove anything about how they compare nationally or whether they are a "good program". ( and your 7 number is inflated ....74 divided by 12 teams is 6.1....even if you count the 8 at large making it 82 divided by 12 it's 6.8 which you can round to 7 but then it isn't really fair to bash that they had to "rely on the at large bids".)

So you admit that IU is a below average Big 10 team (putting it nicely), but argue that they compare favorably to "mid-major" DI programs.  However, the Big 10 comparison is the only one that matters.  The only schools that the best of the best Indiana wrestlers are considering are Big 10 schools or other schools on the same competitive level (Big 12, etc.), and the fact remains that in comparison to those schools, IU is not a good program.  As an IU student, I don't have any inside information and only follow the team casually, but I will say that I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have heard a positive statement about the head coach.

Kind of surprised no one has brought this up yet.  For the 2016 Olympics in Rio, one weight class will be cut from men's freestyle and greco, and two will be added to women's freestyle, meaning there will be six weight classes in each style.  According to the AP, FILA proposed the change in order to "create more equality as wrestling tries to remain in the Olympics for the 2020 Summer Games."  Is this good for the sport or not?  And which weight class will be cut?  In my opinion, it would make the most sense to merge the 55 and 60 kg weight classes into a 58 kg class in order to avoid even larger gaps in the middleweights than there already are.

What a throw in his last high school match... Wow

95 Pounds:  Larry Pendley- 4th Place, 1962 Regional

98 Pounds:  Dan Burch- 1979 State Qualifier

100 Pounds:  Greg Schaefer- 1995 State Champion

103 Pounds:  Gabe Zirkelbach- 1988 State Champion

105 Pounds:  Mike Happe- 1986 State Runner-Up

106 Pounds:  John Werner- 1995 Regional Qualifier

107 Pounds:  Tom Cartwright- 1970 Sectional Runner-Up

112 Pounds:  Chip Elderkin- 1986 State Champion, Craig Weinzapfel- 2001 State Champion

113 Pounds:  Alex Johnson- 2012 State Qualifier

119 Pounds:  Rusty Head- 1991 State Runner-Up, Alex Weinzapfel- 2008 State Runner-Up

120 Pounds:  Sam Goebel- 7th Place, 2012 State Championships

123 Pounds:  John Cartwright- 1970 Regional Qualifier

125 Pounds:  Scott Schaefer- 1996 State Runner-Up

126 Pounds:  Larry Boots- 1980 State Qualifier

127 Pounds: Steve Moore- 4th Place, 1965 State Championships

130 Pounds:  Bart Zirkelbach- 1990 State Runner-Up

132 Pounds:  Bob Dezember- 1985 State Qualifier, Tim Mayer- 1986 State Qualifier

133 Pounds:  Jerry Head- 4th Place, 1959 State Championships

134 Pounds:  Brad Folz- 4th Place, 1995 State Championships

135 Pounds:  Craig Elpers- 1992 State Runner-Up

137 Pounds:  Mike Goebel- 4th Place, 1970 Sectional

138 Pounds:  Buzz Mieras- 1986 State Champion

140 Pounds:  Matt Conkling- 2002 State Runner-Up

142 Pounds:  Mike Bishop- 4th Place, 1995 Sectional

145 Pounds:  Fred Happe- 1964 State Champion, Chris Wildeman- 1981 State Champion, Brett Schnur- 1987 State Champion

151 Pounds:  Tim Ritzert- 1995 State Qualifier

152 Pounds:  Matt Armentano- 1993 State Champion, Dustin Nosko- 2003 State Champion, Matt Coughlin- 2004 & 2005 State Champion

154 Pounds:  Jim Seibert- 1953 State Qualifier

155 Pounds:  John Schroeder- 1978 State Runner-Up

160 Pounds:  Nick Mayer- 1996 State Champion, Allen Weinzapfel- 2001 State Champion, Sam Wildeman- 2003 State Champion

165 Pounds:  Don Scheller- 1954 State Qualifier, Tom May- 1956 State Qualifier

167 Pounds:  Gerard Boots- 4th Place, 1972 State Championships

170 Pounds:  Alex Schneider- 2013 Semi State Qualifier

171 Pounds:  Blake Maurer- 2003 & 2004 State Champion

172 Pounds:  Jeff McDurmon- 1995 Semi State Qualifier

175 Pounds:  Paul Hamilton- 4th Place, 1962 State Championships

177 Pounds:  Tim Boots, 1980 State Champion

180 Pounds:  Steve Pfister, 1968 Regional Qualifier

182 Pounds:  Dalton Brandenstein, 6th Place- 2012 State Championships

185 Pounds:  Andy McDonald, 1995 State Runner-Up

189 Pounds:  Jacob Schneider, 3rd Place- 2008 State Championships

195 Pounds:  Dane Maurer, 3rd Place- 2012 State Championships

215 Pounds:  Zach Goebel, 2007 State Qualifier

220 Pounds:  Evan Collins, 2012 Semi State Qualifier

Heavyweight:  Bill Trainer, 1953 State Champion

 

And with that post, it looks like the discussion is pretty much closed, haha.  Crazy that there have been 45 different weight classes over the years.

Are you seriously asking this question? I honestly thought you were at least semi-intelligent.

 

Let's start off with this

40 out of 224 state qualifiers this year were freshman or sophomores, that is just under 18%. There were 49 out of 224 or 22% in 2012. My guess is of all the wrestlers in the state there are over 50% that are freshmen or sophomores(always have bigger freshman than senior classes usually).  If freshmen and sophomores were the better wrestlers they would account for an equal amount of placings and qualifiers at state.

 

So you ask why a junior or senior is a better wrestler....hmm experience, physical maturity and mental maturity. With all things equal between two competitors the upperclassman is more likely to win.

 

Would you rather have a lineup of freshmen and sophomores or juniors and seniors? Which team would be better?

Once again, I'm extremely impressed with the stats that you obviously have saved in an Excel document on your desktop.  However, if you were at least semi-intelligent, you would realize that you completely missed the point of my post.  Of course, on AVERAGE (there's a statistical term for you), upperclassmen generally have the upper hand on underclassmen from weight to weight, due to "experience, physical maturity and mental maturity," as you said.

However, if you actually look up from the statbook and watch wrestling, it is obvious that at the state level, the large majority of the underclassmen at the lighter weights are more skilled than the large majority of the upperclassmen at the heavier weights.  This is simply due to the fact that a greater PERCENTAGE (there's another one) of lightweights spend much more time developing their wrestling skills than do heavyweights.  I'm sure you could do a statistical analysis of all the posts on this site begging for wrestlers to fill upperweight spots on teams competing in offseason tournaments to prove that point.  My question was why you automatically consider the lighter weights to be weaker than the heavier weights simply because they consist of a greater number of underclassmen, all of whom are "factually" inferior to upperclassman heavyweights (according to you) only because underclassmen don't "account for an equal amount of placings and qualifiers at state" across all weights.  I know you have a much more firm grasp on numbers than common sense, but sometimes it'd serve you well to use the latter.

Just one quick question, if it is so easy to be a good upper weight why are there rarely state qualifiers and placers as freshman or sophomores at these weights?

Just one more quick question, why are juniors and seniors automatically considered "better" wrestlers than freshmen or sophomores?  Here we go again with the lightweight vs. heavyweight debate, but I can't resist saying something every time it comes up.  Just to keep this post somewhat on topic though, I'll go out on a limb and say that, as a freshman, Jason Tsirtsis was a more skilled wrestler than any heavyweight that has ever wrestled in Indiana at any point in his high school career.

Edit: Powerline, you might have just become my favorite poster on this board.

This might be the most immature and pathetic d!#k measuring contest I've ever seen on the internet, and that's really saying something. 

People were saying very similar things about his brother at Iowa. No one is a guaranteed NCAA champion.

This is true, but did Alex have the resume that Jason does at this point in his career?  Jason just gave the national champ a heck of a match at the Midlands last season, losing 7-5.  Of course if he struggles with injury everything changes, but if he stays healthy I don't see how he won't get at least one national title.

Jason Tsirtsis beat a soon-to-be Junior Freestyle champion at the state tournament as a freshman and a former DI national champion in freestyle as a senior... Hard to argue with those kind of results.  Although for my money, Andrew Howe was the most dominant wrestler I've ever seen in Indiana.

Another couple of classic "we don't want to spread any rumors" posts that actually make the rumors worse by not specifying what allegedly happened.  Why even bring it up in the first place?

certainly appears to be that way....wondering if anyone else has heard anything similar?

Any specifics on what happened?  This has piqued my interest

Seven pages on the Fort Wayne semi-state in July???  Never thought I'd see the day...

On a side note, I thought it was kind of bush league when Taylor started pounding the mat before he even got up after the tech was called.  I can appreciate the fact that he views beating Howe as a significant accomplishment, but it was a third place match and he and Howe hadn't even separated yet... as they say, "act like you've been there before."  But that didn't hold a candle to the poor display of sportsmanship put on by Metcalf at the end of his championship match against Oliver.  He is truly an a$$hole.

I'm not quite sure what to take away from that Howe/Taylor match.  Howe takes a risk in a virtually meaningless match in going for a huge move, almost hits it, loses position, and is basically out of position to defend from the time it goes to the mat.  Hard to imagine him going for the same risk at the beginning of a match that mattered.

So you're saying Howe got "caught???"  Sorry, wrong answer, that's never happened in the history of wrestling.  Taylor is by far the superior freestyler as evidenced by that match.

I just figured he could make 141 because he's wrestling at 66 kg, which is only a 4 lb jump.  Has he stated that he's leaning toward wrestling 149?  If he does, it looks like his biggest obstacle would be Kendric Maple, and they had a close match at the Midlands this past season.

I'm incredibly excited to watch Tsirtsis wrestle next year.  I think he easily makes the podium at NCAA's and might even challenge for the title if Stieber doesn't bump up to 141.

You can cut a TON of weight and still follow the rules.

Regardless of whether or not people should bring up wrestlers' weights on the message board (a topic I'm not really interested in), I don't think this statement is true, at least in the 106-145 range.  The whole point of the rules regarding weight cutting are to make sure kids aren't cutting a ton of weight.

"He actually wrestled junior year. He sat out the first part of his senior year, but came back partway through the year."

 

"Did weight cutting have an influence on why he sat out?  I remember that being the rumor at the time, and with how much he jumped up it seemed to make sense."

 

Weigh GAINING was why I sat out! Having torn up my knees on the mat and never really focusing on strength my off season of Junior Year was a big eye opener. Not to mention having my first knee surgery 7 weeks after my dads didn't leave me too eager to get back on the mat. After a hard season of cutting I was walking around 165. The results I saw from diet and training gave me (what i thought) was a good reason to keep that going instead of wrestling.

 

After a couple weeks of the season went by I couldn't take it anymore. Got back on the mat with only 1 stipulation "I don't care about my weight/class, I just want to wrestle, since I'm here I'll do my best". Who knew that's the kind of mindset needed to win state!

 

And for the RUMORS...

I averaged 176 that year and was even lighter the day of state. I averaged an 11-15 LB increase each year from freshman to junior year. With a solid training program and diet I added an extra 6-10 LB gain senior year (hard to say exactly with the extra body fat what was 'real muscle')

 

I completely understand how stories like those on this post lead to rumors. I am disappointed that kids (and parents) have access to substances they shouldn't and don't take the time to 1) educate themselves and 2) do things right. I will always be grateful to the sport of wrestling and am happy to work with wrestlers on a regular basis who educate themselves and do things right!

Wasn't trying to badmouth you or perpetuate any rumors, was just legitimately curious.  Pretty impressive accomplishment to make such a big jump and win a title, especially giving up weight like you did.  And as a Fort Wayne-area wrestler at the time, it was definitely exciting to see someone represent the semi-state well at the state level.

He actually wrestled junior year. He sat out the first part of his senior year, but came back partway through the year.

Did weight cutting have an influence on why he sat out?  I remember that being the rumor at the time, and with how much he jumped up it seemed to make sense.

If I remember right, there was a kid named Stahl from Elkhart Memorial that was around 145 as a sophomore, quit for a year because of the weight cut, then came back to win a title at 189 his senior year.

I think it's pretty disrespectful to Delgado... you got beat fair and square, man up and take your second place medal.  I understand the "runner up is the first loser" mentality Iowa has, but to act like you are too good for second place after being dominated for the second time is arrogant and a display of poor sportsmanship toward your opponent.  I've read that he has requested for the medal to be returned, so it sounds like he regrets the decision, but a fifth year senior who's been wrestling at such a high level for so long should know better.  Delgado has had to stand below McDonough on the podium in the past, and now it's McDonough's turn.  Gable didn't pull a stunt like this in public after he lost the final match of his college career.