GladSwede

Campbell was pinned.

Tim: Wags  lost. 4-1 maybe

I don't have a lot of info. I heard Hileman injufy defaulted. He may have broken his arm.

Holloway from Caston was pinned in the first round.

I think he said Mangum over Anderson, but the phone was cutting out.

I haven't watched a meet all year.

My picks:

103 Overby, Herrera, Hanthorne, Marvel

112 Hanthorne, Weisse, Denton, Carithers

119 Preston, Draper, Johnson, Hickman

125 Hicks, Jackson, McTaggart, Rehn

130 Bailey,  Ringen, Velazqueq, Baldini

135 Griffen, Alderman, Holloway, Martin

140 Brown, Wagoner, Hardesty, Martinez

145 Dorris, Martinez, Redweik, Kantz

152 Palmieri, whaley,Konieczny, Lane

160 Green, Warren, Dale, Hileman

171 Lynde, Winkle, Gutierrez, Christenen

189 Nethercutt, Masters, Campbell, Stichter

215 Sumner, Berumen, Ricks, Farnham

HWT Ford, Anderson, Dix, Culp

I wanted to pick Dix at heavy but that MWC finals match stopped me.

189=  Why not?

Also I  probably should have picked more guys from Lafayette sectional.

I might win the lottery.

Also what might he have surgery on? That seems like a pretty important piece of information.

 

 

If a wrestler arrives at a tourney well hydrated but hungry, the 2lb. weight-gain is not a problem. Kids won't gorge themselves after a weigh-in if they aren't cutting weight & if they aren't dehydrated they won't blow up beyond the 2lbs. from normal drinking!

 

2 lbs of water is slightly under a liter of water. ( 1 liter is about 2.2 lbs of water) that's two  16.9 fl oz bottles of water.  that's not a lot of water after wrestling for 6 minutes. Sure they are going to lose some water while wrestling so it's not going to all be added weight but you also want them to eat during these long wrestling days.

While I can't find documentation on this I know my weight fluxuates 2-4 lbs throughout a day. If I work out it varies even more as I tend to over-hydrate after particularly hard workouts. None of those "hard workouts" compare to the fatigue of 3 to 5 six minute wrestling matches. 2lbs seems like an incredibly light expectation for growing kids wrestling.

another #4 over #1

 

112:

Brandon Preston loses to Danny Rodriguez

 

man logansport regional not lookin so hott today..

I'm not there but I believe that Preston did not wrestle.

Even if you can't see the broadcast at the bottom of the page they have brackets and are updating them somewhat.

I graduated from a school that lists a current enrollment of 446 students. My data does not go back very far but the number of wrestlers participating have dropped in recent years.  This year the team ff 2 weight classes.  20 years ago the team fielded a complete varsity and jv team. Most weight classes had 3 backups. They had won 3 or 4 consecutive sectional titles against a 4a school. The next 8 years saw 6 or 7 more sectional championships.

The next two years were not kind to the wrestlers as over half jv team  from the year before were either injured (playing football/wrestling), academically ineligible, or did not come out so they could work.  They did not win a sectional title and did not win their conference title for the first time in 14 years. In 98 2 freshmen started not because they were ready but because they weighed the right amount. In 2000 5 first time wrestlers "made" varsity; there was no jv. In 2001 the team once again won the sectional title with 5 seniors and 6 juniors.  In the next 9 years the team won 3 sectionals and has not had more than 4 jv wrestlers. The last 4 years the team has not been able to field a full lineup.

*disclaimer* I've included the sectional championships, but remember correlation does not imply causation. This is a very small sample size  and I make no claim to the accuracy of the data although I believe that it is correct.  

He went to state last year so he was ranked at the start. He's a solid wrestler who hasn't hit his stride this year.  The chapman kid is a senior and is very tough. He gave Dorris some good matches last year but struggled against VanOrt(something like that) from West Central.

Hopefully Dorris can refocus and both of these young men can represent the conference well in the state tournament.

I didn't write anything down so sorry for the mistakes. Hopefully someone can help me out =)

103 sn ,nw, Harvey caston, Johnson pio

112 Rehn wc, caston, win, ?( Rehn pinned the Caston kid but the Caston kid put rehn on his back in a cradle for 30 seconds. I think the person who took fourth also put Rehn on his back.)

119 (3 former sectional champions) Wright sn dec Johnson pio, Berkshire caston, WC( Berkshire pinned Fritz in about a minute. Wright beat Berkshire by 4 maybe and beat Johson by 5. Johnson beat the west central kid something like 18-11)

125 Hartley win OT Stone,

130 Holloway caston wbf Faler WC, Chapman win, ?( the Chapman Holloway match was close. 8-4 maybe?)

135 Reidwick Caston ? ? ?

140 Chapman Win (pinned Dorris in semis), WC maybe? , Dorris

145 Wagoner Pio,  McMenamin Caston

152 Cameron WC, Hoover win(6-4 maybe?), Gonzalez Caston, Baxter Pio

160 Hileman NW,  Ault Caston (3rd OT win for Hileman.)

171 Bell SN, Nethercutt Pio

189 Masters WC, Linback NW

215 Tolson, Pio, Frontier kid injury defaulted for 3rd.

HWT Dix win

I'm going to start off by posing this question.  Do quality wrestlers make strong programs or do strong programs make quality wrestlers?

 

You mention schools like Delphi, Western, and Winamac only being competitive or tough every few years or so and that class wrestling would help them.  I have to ask, what would be your definition of being competitive then?  If your definition is by number of state qualifiers/champions I guess a class system would help them.  But adding these labels doesn't improve the quality of wrestling for these schools.  Delphi is sending 5 to state this year from my count.  In a class system, they may send 8 or 9 (don't know really).  The point is the skill of each wrestler on Delphi's team will be exactly the same, regardless of which system they're in.

 

You also make an interesting argument about success breeds success.  I agree with this somewhat, but it's not that cut and dry.  The coaching staff and the way the program is structured is more of a determinant of kids staying and improving in the sport, not the number of state qualifiers the school has.  You make the program appealing to the child, then the parents will see the child's interest in wrestling.  Thus the parents will put money into the sport for the kid (hopefully).  Then when the child grows up to being an adult, he'll feel obligated to stay with the sport and it pretty much snowballs from there.

 

When I started out in the youth program (which was in Ohio), I fell in love with the sport.  I put alot of work into the sport and a part of my personal identity has derived from wrestling.  This is the reason why I'm still involved and love the sport, and it has NOTHING to do with any of my achievements or medals I won. 

 

This is where Indiana falls behind most of the "hotbed wrestling states."  There aren't alot of people that feel that obligation to the sport, but I feel we're getting better at.  Look at the Howes', Tsirtsis', Escobedos'.  We seem to be putting up a few all-americans consistently the past few years, collegiately.  My Indiana experience only goes back about 15 years, but have we ever had this type of national success before?

Considering you can have a quality wrestler from a non quality program but you can't have a quality program without quality wrestlers I reason that quality wrestlers make quality programs.

The idea isn't that adding classes itself will make the wrestlers better but that having success will encourage more wrestlers to wrestle and more wrestlers to spend extra time wrestling.  If those three extra delphi state qualifiers in the class system decide that they want to spend extra time because they believe they can be state champions having made it state instead of regional qualifiers and put forth more effort then Indiana wrestling has improved by 3 wrestlers. Granted this doesn't affect the quality of wrestling in Indiana as a whole, but as you pointed out it's more likely that these wrestlers that invest a ton of effort in the wrestling will likely return to the sport and contribute.

I would define being competitive as having some success in the state tournament since generally that's what is celebrated the most with banners in the rafters and trophies in the trophy cases.

Now I agree that it takes more than success to breed success, but  for those programs that already have a coaching staff and structure that promotes wrestlers growth if success can up their numbers, I don't see the downside of this. If Delphi were to win state this year and their coaches decided to try encourage their team to attend a particular camp, do you believe the state championship would have an effect on how many parents agree to send their kids? It would be real interesting to see if there is an increase in numbers for all ages of the program after a team wins a state championship.

Why did you join youth wrestling? Did your parents come from wrestling families?  Did you have siblings or friends that wrestled? What caused you to pick wrestling? What caused your parents to agree to let you do it?  These are things we need to be examining to promote growth in our sport. The more kids we can get interested in wrestling the better the chances of finding a kid who will love the sport and contribute back to it.

To those of you who argue about having one champion over having two champions in a weight class I say it's not about you, it's about the kids. I highly doubt that if you ask a state champion from a state with class wrestling if it diminishes his achievement he'll answer no. He won't care that he was the state champion in such and such class, only that he stood atop the podium under the lights. 

I've already read the comments about friendship tourneys and understand that this is the nature of competition...not everyone can win.  But to ignore the inequalities of the system we have in place without taking into the consideration the affect it has on the people in the system that it affects (small school wrestlers) because we want one champion is arrogant. Y2's data suggests that wrestles of bigger schools are 3x more likely to make it to state without ever wrestling.  This shows an inherent flaw with the current system that for whatever the reason. We need to fix this.

of course not. But if we are arguing the advantage of a large school vs small school, it's important to note the affect of money on wrestling and the advantage that large schools can have in this aspect. It also can help to explain why some bigger schools aren't as competitive and why some smaller schools are.

By no means would class wrestling solve poverty(before some wise guy decides to suggest I'm implying that)That's ridiculous.  But if a school like Delphi who right now seems to have the right mixture of great coaches and great wrestling families, in a class system they might be able to continue this trend for a couple of years instead of being competitive every 5 or 6 years or how ever long it takes to find that right combination of families who can afford it and wrestlers who want it. When was the last time you saw a public small school be competitive for more than a year or two? Western for a while there was pretty tough. But they eventually hit a dry spell and aren't the same as they were. You do on the hand see some big schools stay competitive for decades at a time. Now I know some of you are going to say that's coaching. I agree that coaching makes a difference. But I'm pretty sure winamac a 2a school that had a fantastic year in 95 or 96 and won a very tough twin lakes tourney hasn't changed coaches.  The number of state qualifiers and state champions has increased but the overall team just hasn't seen to be able to compete at the level it did then. I think they are a perfect example of what class wrestling could do for the sport. They had a decent team that made the papers and something like 10 years later they have their first state champion because a family decided to get their kid wrestling when he was young and could afford to send him to camps and nationals.  Last year they take three kids to state and I know one of them went to j robinson.I'm a firm believer that success breeds success. I dont' think you're going to change my mind on  that.  That's really where class wrestling would help our sport. You're going to see more parents who can afford it willing to spend money on their kids because of Chris Kastens and Ryan Pribbles.

What credentials would you use to seed?

Yes there will be. There will be more people in poverty. But there will also be more people out of poverty. That's how stats work. If a stat holds true for a whole and you break up the whole unevenly, then the more dense the area is the more people will be that fit into the stat. 10% of 5000 is always less than 10% 50,000.

Of course poverty is an issue. Those that can afford things can do it, those that can't...well can't. That's a pretty easy concept to understand.

And before anyone points out that so and so didn't have money and won state or whatever I'm well aware that like most stats there is going to be some overlap. But an individual does not negate the other 98% that povert negatively affects there ability to succeed.

I thought this was a pretty easy concept to understand. They use to teach it in 100 level soc classes. The example they always gave was with education. If I can afford to give my child a tutor, a computer, send him to a "good" school, or get him whatever help he needs with whatever then the odds of him succeeding are greatly increased.

Mr. Spray,

On average for far do your kids have to drive to find summer wrestling? Do you have an open gym? How many neighboring schools have open gym? What is the annual income of your community?

It seems reasonable to me that all these things affect how likely it is for a small school to field 14 decent wrestlers or even 1 wrestler that has a shot at winning state. Big schools have a better chance year in and year out to find more wrestlers whose parents can afford to get them involved in aau wrestling. If there's a 10% chance that a kids parents will be able to afford sending him to camps or summer wrestling activities, then a school with 10x more kids than another has a better chance of consistently having these kids wrestle.  I think this is the basis for why private schools are able to be small and competitive. If they can afford to go to a private school most of the parents can probably afford the camps and extra tourneys. 

Last year Crown Point, Merrillville, and Mishawaka made up 35.7%(20/56) of state qualifiers from the semi-state.

2008 Logansport regional sent 8

Penn, Alderman, Rausch, Minix, Vlahos, Garpow, Thomack, Atwood.