youngone

2PM Eastern is start time I know weigh ins are at 11:30 or 12pm

I know of these schools coming

Manchester

Trine

Wabash

CCSJ

U of Indy

Lincoln should be there

Muskegeon

Oakland Univ (club team)

Rumor of USI's Club team coming

I don't know about IPFW's club team

It should be a great mix and there will be some great match-ups

I like the 149 prospective match ups Manchester's outstanding Freshman Brady and Wabash's returning NCAA Qualifier Strausbaugh

There are other schools, but I am just not sure who. I know Coach Burlingame has been diligently working toward making this tournament as successful as possible.  There are a lot of schools invited to come,and Coach Burlingame was especially trying to contact more club teams to join.

To speak to your question directly, Adam Garcia was placed at #4 at 119 not because he attends Merrillville HS, but rather for the fact that he soundly beat Danny Rodriguez of Highland and Brandon Coppinger of Portage last season (both state qualifiers at 112).  About nobody would have predicted that Adam Garcia would not have made it to state last year after seeing the semi-state draw.  You are correct in the fact that he lost to a Seeger wrestler at semi-state, my defense to that point would be that Garcia's entire body of work is much, much stronger than that Seeger wrestler's body of work throughout the season.  Not many would argue that Adam Garcia is not a better wrestler than the Seeger wrestler, but Garcia happened to be caught in a neck-wrench in that opening round of semi-state, so on that day, you are correct, the Seeger wrestler was better.  As far as Jordan Hicks, I argue that again, the complete body of work of the wrestlers ahead of him exceed his one state qualification out of the quarterfinal that he won with freshmen Hartman from Clay and Schurg from Crown Point.  The only wrestlers who have no state experience ahead of Hicks are Slagle, Padilla, and McGinley.  Slagle may be the most improved wrestler in the whole state in my opinion and I expect him to become the favorite to win the Merrillville Semi-State as the season progresses.  According to accounts, he's competing with and even beating wrestlers such as Coppinger and Halsted of Crown Point in the practice room this pre-season at RWA.  Al Padilla of Merrillville wrestled two different 1 point matches with state champion Anthony Hawkins, which makes him better than Hicks in my opinion.  Charlie McGinley, the last of the non-state qualifiers at 125, already has a win this year over Ben Sommer of Carmel, who had an overall better body of work last season than Hicks, in my opinion, as well as having much more impressive ISWA results than Hicks.  I hope this helps.

I am not saying Garcia isn't a very good wrestler, but I was right in answering the prior question that the prior seasons ending results and prior weight class mean nothing if you are from better school you are afforded better opportunities. The only considerations taken are the one you see fit. I see you are still neglecting to take hicks' win over catron into consideration, which is ok because they wrestle in late Dec anyway that is if there is not some strange reason for them not too. Its like the kid has the plague for wrestling at a small school from which has few accomplishments. Slagle wrestled 130 last weekend and if he is going 125 why on earth would you not make 125 and take a shot at wrestling Kieffer from Roncalli just my opinion there, not saying he didn't want to wrestle him but you have to seize an opportunity like that. Also Hicks' 3 loss last season were not anything to be ashamed of and he never missed a match or sat out against anybody and often time bumped up a weight class chasing a better match. Yea his schedule is lacking but it's a far better schedule than Seeger's previous schedules. Since 2008 they have been dropping lesser tournaments and Duals as they have final been invited to much better tournaments for above average performances by a small school. A body of work is important but isn't everything your putting into the equation, and to say school doesn't matter at all is just absurd because school is a big factor. What body of work does Slagle have who has he beat you didn't mention anything other than he is greatly improved but hey he is a region kid from griffith. 1 point matches are tough performances against State Champs but they are still losses. I remember Green the 215 third placer from Kokomo last season had an out there performance at his holiday tournament winning 9 match by a spread of less than 15 points with 2 triple over times and another overtime match as well. A loss to him by a 1 point isn't really an accomplishment. McGinley's win over Sommer is impressive but Sommer has pretty much the same resume as Hicks only now he has a loss, being ahead of hicks still a stretch. And back to the original issue Qualifying for state at 112 and moving up 2 weight classes verses Qualifying at state and staying the same weight the value of having experience at a weight class seems to be what is undermined.

So that is my question how do you justify putting a state qualifier of a lower weight above a state qualifier staying at his previous weight, quality wins for the kid is kind of a lesser topic here because the quality wins from last season are at that lower weight.

I know that doing the rankings are tough and I respect the people who puts the time in to do it. But here is just a thought and I have notices the same tread every year.

 

FOR EXAMPLE... A kid wrestles 112 one year and does make it out of his regional. Then the next year the same 112 kid is now 130 and is ranked in the State or Semi-State rankings. But a kid that wrestled 130 one year and makes to Semi-State and is still at 130 the following year isn't even ranked in the State or Semi-State.

 

So what makes the 112 kid who is now 130, higher ranked then a returning Semi-State 130 kid?

Could you please use names and schools and restate your question?

That is exactly the problem if your a returning 112 going to 130 and you go to a notable school and or have a name i.e. prestigious family, then you are in the in crowd and will be ranked. It's not last years performance that matters. I give you Garcia from Merrillville ranked at 119, he didnt even make out of the first round of semi-state at 112 and is ranked 4th 119, where as a kid like Jordan Hicks makes it to state at 125 and barely makes the ranking board this week at 16 but previously wasn't ranked because he goes to Seeger.(oh by the way Garcia was knocked out by a Seeger kid who isn't ranked at 112) I think you get my point here that its the school not the wrestler. You can't get accurate rankings with one voter anyways there has to be a committee of people who need to make a good ranking board because good kids from less than stellar schools are always overlooked. Not saying it will fix everything but the more eyes watching and the more minds deliberation the better and more understandable the whole picture will look.

I saw Slagle of Griffith listed at 125 wrestling 130 last weekend at Laf. Jeff

I figured I would start early;

I want to see who are the locks? Who to watch for? Dark Horses? and Stud Freshman?

LOCKS-

103 Overby Harrison

119 Draper

125 Hicks Seeger

145 Hodge Harrison

160 Lynde Delphi

215 Sumner McC

Who to watch for

103 White West Lafayette

112 Weise Benton Central

112 Hanthorne Seeger

119 Schrader Central Catholic

119 McTaggert Benton Central

125/130 Griffin McC

125130 Jackson Laf. Jeff

130/135 Ponto Benton Central

135/140 McTaggert Benton Central

140 Brown Laf. Jeff

145 Dale McC

152 Palmieri West Lafayette

160 Gutirrez McC

171 Rumell Delphi

171 Chaney Harrison

189 Patton West Laffayette

215 Anderson Delphi

285 Ford McC

Dark Horses

112/119 McCoy Harrison

140/45 Cholula McC

Freshman

Personally don't know of any figured I could use some help.

Obviously I can't guarantee weights of these people but I figure they are a factor no matter what weight class

With info in return on weights maybe we could have a pre-season ranking of the top 4 in every weight class

Binion has really stepped it up the last year. I look for Binion to have a monster season.

I promise you they have both stepped it up, if they didn't step it up every year then we wouldn't be have this conversation.

125

1. Layton Binion Mishawaka 11 6th

2. Jordan Hicks Seeger SQ 12

This should be a good one of course by my records I have them flip-flopped Binion got 7th at 119 which gives them a common opponent in Alex Catron last Season

Binion V Catron score 3-1

Hicks V Catron score 10-4

Having seen both of these match and a little bit of a biased opinion(maybe a lot of bias) Hicks should be the victor by score of something like 6-2

The crappy thing about the J & C is that they will cover every basketball game list from best to worst. We wrestling fans are lucky to get a full length atricle for the sectional. Everything in the sports pager is Purdue athletics. Purdue has it own website that is updated frequently. Most of the people they report on aren't even area kids. Yes they put in a few here or there. When it come to High school athletics they could care less about sport outside of Football, Vollyball, Basketball, and Baseball. The Frenzy is the exact same way. Lafayette's coverage is sad, and when they do report outside of those they send uneducated reporters who might have seen the sport once in their life. It is a sad sad depiction of Area athletics.     

Its not like it is going to take up any prime time space because most meets are on tuesday and thursday. Tournaments may be hard for them to do but it is very possible.

The IHSAA would not need to make a whole new structure for the sport of wrestling. They would also not make us go to either a four or five class system. The IHSAA bylaws (which are online for everyone to read) clearly say that a sport with the number of schools that wrestling has would be divided into three classes.  Here is the bylaw:

 

RULE 2 ? CLASSIFICATION OF SCHOOLS

2-1

Schools may be classified in team sports up to a maximum of four classes, except football which shall

have five classes, according to the following criteria:

a. If 50 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the

previous year, that sport may have two classes.

 

b. If 75 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the

previous year, that sport may have three classes.

c. If 95 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the

previous year, that sport may have four classes.

 

Wrestling has  309 schools that have teams. There are 411 schools that are members of the IHSAA.

By my math that puts us right at two classes It would work

I don't under stantd why a segrigated team state would be such a problem. I uderstand why A single individual champion would be benificial. But as far as a team goes you can't tell me it is fair when a shool with 400 students versus a school with 1200 students. How many teams under 500 students have ever made the state finals.

We have a problem with kids switching schools now so That isn't a factor that would change do to a class shift.

Also under the format I present the team tournament goes by duels . We all know that a good tournament team does not equal a good dual team.

IndianaMats top twenty teams teams and enrollment

1. Mishawaka (23-0) 1676

2. Crown Point (12-1) 2187

3. Yorktown (27-1) 731

4. Perry Meridian (22-1) 2004

5. Castle (15-3) 1754

6. Evansville Reitz (17-1) 824

7. Evansville Mater Dei (17-1) 571

8. Merrillville (17-2) 2275

9. Penn (17-3) 3268

10. Portage (14-6) 2595

11. Bloomington South (17-4) 1939

12. Bellmont (19-5) 910

13. Franklin (20-6) 2058

14. Roncalli (12-3) 980

15. Jeffersonville (22-6) 2069

16. Cathedral (18-3) 1208

17. New Palestine (22-5) 999

18. Carmel (7-4) 3916

19. Lawrence North (10-5) 2962

20. Center Grove (19-5) 2255

Only two schools are lower than indianas averge of 740

And no topic is DUMB to post about Duck and Run You have proven that one yourself

309 Schools competed this year in wrestling this year.

only 8 participate in the team state finals

I propose 2 classes

Here is Why

You allow 8 more teams media exposure

IHSAA makes more money

More fans of more schools will get exposed to quality wrestling

It will get smaller schools more excited about wrestling raising number of participants

It is possible to do it with out interupting the indivual tourney

Here is how

Split the schools in half        

D2 small schools 154                            D1  Big schools 155                      

Team Sectionals                154 Schools 16 Sectional, 1o teams at 10 Sectionals, 9 teams at 6 Sectionals

D1  Big schools 155                     

Team Sectionals                155 Schools 16 Sectional, 1o teams at 11 Sectionals, 9 teams at 5 Sectionals

Each Sectional would look like this

Start 11 days before sectionals

Seed meeting on Monday

Dual Meet format

10 team format                                                                                                                          9 Teams

Tue                                                                  Thur @ Pre determined Location               Tue                                                            Thur @ Predetermined Location

A 10v8, EWinner A v.1 @1 Home          Winner E v. Winner B                                A8v.9, E Winner A v.1@1 Home     Winner E v. Winner B

B 4v5 @4 Home                                             Winner F v. Winner C                              B4v.5@4 Home                                      Winner C v. Winner D

C3v6 @3 Home                                                    Winners Then Compete                     C3v.6@3 Home                                            Winners then Compete

D 7v9, F Winner D v.2 @ 2 Home                                                                                    D7v.2@ 2Home

-The next week is dead for Indivual Sectionals-

Top 2 Teams Advance

The Wed. After Ind Sectionals

8 Regionals

Winner Sectional A v. Runner Up B

Winner Sectonal B v. Runner Up of A

Winners competer

The Following Wed. Top two Per Regional Advavnce to 4 Semi States

Winner Regional A v. Runner Up Regional B

Winner B v. Runner Up A

Winners Compete

Top Two Advance to an 8 team State Championship where D1 and D2 will be held at the same location the Sat after Individual State

No change to the individual tournament at all

School Sizes

Lafayette Harrison 1539

Castle 1606

Roncalli 961

Yorktown 642

Perry Meridian 1748

Cathedral 1094

Crown point 1785

Mishawaka 1541

Most of them are bigger schools I wonder why; more money, better coaches, better facillities, more students to go out for the team, better variety of classes,....... the list can go on small schools cant compete.

My guess is that they look more for body structure and wrestling style more so than weight class. Most leggit semiors hit at least 119, very few stay below 112, but i definitely think you have to show growth and muscular maturity throughout high school. I would think that Petrov, Brooks, and Phillips will get to 119. They also have to succeed in every weight class they compete in.

We played a game called ringworm it only works if you have practice circles up and is a good idea to have padded walls. The object was not to get pushed out of th circles but you could jump from one to the next.

The best overall wrestler won 119 this year.  I really think there is no debate re this topic.

Yep you can run from that truth

Question for Y2-

What is the criteria used to move up for a sectional qualifier to regional qualifier? Never really understood that.My guess was that it had to do with the number of post

My favorite Singlet wasn't because of the style, but how it caught my eye. I think every noticed it but Raley's singlet was falling apart I am suprise the R made it through the match. Hope he gets a new singlet before next season probably otta use a new vender as well.

Love the Plaid

Hated the Bubblebee if you wear something like that you gotta be an absolute stud not losing in the consoles.

Yeah there is plenty of inconsistancy with this. I think action should be either stopped on every stall call, or they can treat it like locked hands and not allow the top wrestler to score off of it. The other thing is that Stall calls a great for the sport it enforces excitement. It makes matches more enjoyable when both kids are on the attack. Stalling should have beed call about 3 times more than it was.

I know most refs verbally worn kids to work to advance, but not all. I think if the ref says "work to advance green/red" iif that wrestler does nothing in 8-15 seconds stalling needs to be called. If a wrestler runs away at any point in the match and I don't mean just bring the match back to the circle so they can work but running away to avoid giving up a take down should be called for stalling. The last implement need is if one wrestler has 4 leggit takedown attempts with out an attempt for his oppenent, the opponent should be called for stalling. 

I think the criteria for stalling should be better enforce.

I like the Push Out rule I think it would be good for high school wrestling.

Then tell me why when he wins he has no problem shaking a coach's hand?  Who cares if a kid's dream is shattered as you want to put it?  Zac's dream was shattered after wrestling McMurray and he still went over and shook the Portage coach's hand.  Character is shown in many different ways in this sport and your true character comes out when things do not go your way.  

He lost the SS final and I remember him shaking the Portage Coaches had. And I am pretty (sure not 100%) he shook McCray's coaches hand, if not its cause his mind wasn't right. He isn't a bad sport it was an all around bad situation. It was the manner in which he lost that was so disheartening. In McCray's situation, he got beat fair and square by Mcmurray, and no controversy. There is no comparison between the two situations. Plus if you want to get all ralled up over shaking hands I don't remember Willis walking over and shaking the Harrison coaches hand either. I know of full teams that never shake the coaches hand after a match. Every year we wrestle New Castle they never shake hands with coaches after a match. Shaking hands isn't a rule and its not required so i don't understand the grief with it.

Believe it or Not Evansville performed the worst this season

In The top three-

MV-14

NC-13

FW-10

EV-5

Fort Wayne is getting better but they still don't match up with MV.

If you take away mishawaka then insert the next best kid that is still one hell of a line up coming out of MV. This season a lot of the mish kids came into the SS as 2 or 3's from regionals and they upset quality kids in the ticket round.

OHHHH not to mention

FW lost 1 champion in the first round and 2 of their champs got 8th

MV lost 1 Champ in the first, but the 1 placed 5 and the rest placed 4th or better.

I said you were top heavy and had no depth.  6 champs is great, but I look at placers to see the overall quality and it showed a ton of parity this year. 

Top heavy!!!!!!! Is that a bad thing not to mention

top 8s

MV-30

NC-30

EV-24

EV-28

By the number post I gave exact numbers for each of the ss number 1-8. MV and NC were well above the oth two

I assume you mean 206, not 106, for New Castle.

Yep I fixed it thanks

Year in and Year out people celebrate wins in the finals until kids start gettin called for unsportsman like conduct for celebrating before the whistle it will continue. The three wasn't that bad in my eyes. I actually thought that was better than what Roach did. He ranaway with 5 seconds left and started celebrating when he stalled in the third. It would have cracked me up for the ref to call a stall and doc the kid for unsportsman like conduct at the same time that would send it in to over time. Wrestle til the whistle celebrate when the match is over.

Who is more likely to get their third title next year both are sophmores right now

Crown Point's Tsirtsis or Union County's Phillips

And will Ayersman become a 3-Peat?

Will Raley get number 2 after the last two attempts not being number 1?

Will Roach or Stien get number 2 next season?

This speaks more about the power of each SS

Placers

                        1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8

MV                  6     6     2     5     6     2     2     1       =30

NC                  5      3     5     3     2     5     2     5       =30

FW                  2     3     5      1     1     3     4     5*     =24*

EV                  1      2     2     5      5     4     6     3      =28    

I checked my count a couple of times and that is what I got            

With an over points scoring 16 for 1st, 12 for 2nd, 8 for 3rd, 6 for 4th, 4 for 5th, 3 for 6th, 2 for 7th, 1 for 8th

MV-249

NC-206

FW-140*

EV-133

YAY for Fort Wayne you are no longer on the bottom.... Keep Up You still need depth but your upper half can hang. Get those little guys better only 1 placer 103 and 112 and he got 8th

Merrillville- on top as usual

New Castle- Overall Very impressive

Evensville- What happened out there. Very sad to see the dynasty die but so far no one picked up the slack. Though Castle seemed to look pretty steller.  

* counting Jim West

Great Job Kid but get that coach of yours to find a way to legnthen that schedule so he can track down 237

My question is if the ref hadn't scored the LATE penalty point would willis have continued. I am willing to bet he would have returned no matter the medical decision. The problem was that it was a shoulder injury and willis didnt come to his feet til the injury time went off. There was nothing wrong with his legs and you always fill worse if you lay down and think about it. If willis gets up and tries to shake it off  or attempts too then would have gotten an applause. The move was not illegal and I pin the guilt on the official for giving a pitty point. The pity point is what put willis under the bus. If the penalty wasn't scored willis would have been applauded if he had to discontinue. This official (I have no doubt is an experienced and quality official) owes both kids an apology. He was on top the move when it started and he didn't stop it till willis was on his back in agony. STOP THE PITY POINTS

Tsirtsis was in control the whole match. Mullins seemed to have gotten discouraged in the third when he couldn't get out. Miullins tried some frantic movement, but Tsirtsis conrolled him scored back points. In my opinion, Mullins didn't stand much of a chance. Jackson was impressive in the finals though.