cyoung

We have a scale that is functional except it's weights are consistently off. It needs re-certified and calibrated. Does anyone have a recommendation for a company near central Indiana that does the service? 

No one that's answered your questions has any hand in voting or had any hand in designing the event.  As others have said, you came out guns blazing regarding issues that have been discussed at great length--not even realizing that New Pal is in fact in the voting to be included, and not realizing that the system is designed to find next year's best teams (not this year's).

I did not come out gun's blazing. Re-read the posts. I am not the person who did that. I believe you are referring to the person who posted above me that everyone was upset with regarding New Pal's lack of an invitation. I just made some points about the selection process that I thought would easy the burden on the selection committee. In fact, I believe I have been 100% civil, and far from guns blazing.

I will also add that I realize it's a difficult job to be in charge of the selection process, and I am certain it is hard work for very little reward (if any). I've been there where you do something that you work very hard on, and you hear nothing but naysayers as a final result. (Naysayers that don't have real answers.) I get that, and appreciate the work that is done.

The point of my previous posts was that if mathematics was used, there'd be no arguments and it would make the work of the selection committee worlds easier. I am not a statistician, so I don't have a solution. I just had a suggestion. I sincerely apologize if my suggestion was offensive to the hard work that many put in.

Chris Young

I'm sure the IHSWCA has open ears awaiting your superior suggestion

I never claimed to be a statistician. I simply claimed that there's got to be a better mathematical formula, which is a fact that no one would deny. Thanks for your sarcasm, and in no way am I being elitist as your reply suggests.

The reason for my original post was to simply point out that the powers that be should expect some sort of "call out" from teams that feel slighted for the simple fact that the final teams that get in are voted upon. When humans decide there's bias, and that's a fact. If the IHSWCA could find a way to do this where a vote was not needed, they would receive less flack. Flack that is clearly bothersome to the members in charge based upon the "defensive" replies.

Chris Young

If one of the best teams finished 15th mathematically, then there's got to be a better way, and probably a lot of them.

Why are the final two spots a wild card that is voted in? If there's a certain number of entries for each class, and the current point system is being described by current IHSWCA board members as 'at this time the best way to determine eligibility,' why wouldn't you just use the system that was derived and currently in use?

I understand that there may be JV kids and incoming freshman that might figure in and make a team stronger, but predicting one teams strength over another in that area would be like just using the final individual rankings to determine who wins a state title and who comes in 8th.

By having a vote-in for the final spot, it does seem to open the door for accusations of 'politics' at the very least, and it shouldn't be surprising when accusations of such are thrown out. Voting is quite simply one man's opinion, and as a human there's no possible way to be completely unbiased. Would anyone take a bet against me if I were to say Franklin will certainly get in because they are the defending state champs? The answer to that is either: No (which suggests bias by the voters) or another logical argument is that they have the highest point total of any team not in the tournament, so they deserve that spot, which simply solidifies my argument that we should simply just use the mathematics that everyone has agreed upon as 'the best at this time.' 

Something to consider.

Chris Young

There was a kid from Edgewood around 2000-2003 timeframe who was 103 Freshman and Senior was 189.  I forget his name, but he was actually a decent wrestler.

Adam Whiffen (spelling!?) is who you are referring to, I believe.

AC Slater!

Last time I checked wrestling had weight classes so I think that balances out the whole classed thing.

Last time I checked, football has rosters full of kids (60+ easily, some probably over 100). Many, many more individuals compete in the football state finals than in your unclassed wrestling tournament with WEIGHT CLASSES! In fact, there's probably nearly as many kids representing their teams in the 5A state championship game alone than the entire line-up of kids qualifying for Friday night at Bankers Life.

Rebels, you're right. You said nothing about the "life's not fair." I apologize for grouping you into that. However, that is the sentiment of many of the people that have opposed it.

Someone else pointed out, if we do it for semi-state, where does it stop? I can help you with that. Sectionals is seeded. No need to do it there because it is not a luck of the draw scenario. Regionals are created from two sectionals coming together, so again, no luck of the draw there either. The only place in the state tournament where luck of the draw is truly ALWAYS involved is Semi-State and first round Friday night. Both would be nice, but I would be happy and thankful to have them at semi-state, as would many, many others because qualifying for state is such a prestigious honor and goal. That's why they have the "PARADE OF CHAMPIONS" on Friday night.

Chris

What do you think about the football draw? LC was playing Mishawaka for the 5a title. WC, Carmel all lost in the sectionals. Roncalli and Cathedral play every year in the first, second or Championship game of the sectionals. Is that right, those kids could argue their seasons were cut short because of a bad draw. I am just saying it happens in other sports. Old wrestler, to answer your question before you ask, yes I have seen my kids get good draws, and I have seen them get bad.

You are comparing apples to oranges. #1 it's classed, and wrestling is not. You already have an advantage there... As well, 16 teams don't make the state finals in football, but 16 individuals do in wrestling. The argument against wrestle backs with the "life isn't fair sentiment" is totally wrong. If we can make it better, why wouldn't we?! Plus, you are talking about kids who in some cases may have devoted their entire life to this 'dream' of wrestling at Bankers Life.. For it to end with a crappy draw, and for adults to say to that kid "life's not fair." That's crap.

Now, I know we have little say in this, and the IHSWCA has been trying to get this passed forever. However, I don't think the IHSAA needs support from anyone regarding this because the current system is flawed.

Chris Young

He may look like a grown man but Ben is a month shy of being a first year cadet.

In other words, he's an 8th grader that is a 2nd year cadet (some 8th graders are 2nd year schoolboys). Stewart is an absolute stud and would being making waves if he was a healthy freshman right now.

I know that New Pal is one of the smallest 3A schools. When wrestling a school that is 2A, they are definitely wrestling a school with closer enrollment numbers vs. when they wrestle most 3A teams. A problem with class is that the largest 3A schools are way disproportionate compared to anyone else, making an argument for fairness a bit moot.

you better go to vegas.....that was pretty accurate!

I am thinking I should run an Indiana High School wrestling sports book, where I set the spreads. Perhaps, I could use the genius ratings for some of the lesser known schools! You just better pay up, or I'll spladle you! hahaha

Geeze you were WAY off!

Haha...  New Pal covered my spread.  I have coached and coached against many of the kids on both teams, so it was an educated guess. A couple of overtime matches could have made me look less prophetic though! awesome, high intensity dual.

Chris Young

Exciting dual. 39-30 New Pal.

Where is the love cyoung? where is the love, brother?

You're acting like I picked Cathedral! I picked New Pal!! I just don't think it will be a blow out.. Besides, there's a couple of Cathedral kids that I had a hand in coaching, too! I'm super excited to watch this dual, and I'm hoping the Dragons take it to the Irish!

38-30 New Pal

I think Perry Meridian by themselves would maybe be able to handle all the #4 placing wrestlers coming from that Sectional. With that being said, that sectional is incredibly tough, and there will be some state caliber kids that will have trouble making it out. Heavyweight, in particular, in that sectional/regional is crazy loaded.

Chris

The perfecting of a few moves should start ASAP, and this would be done with countless hours of drilling with perfect technique. It doesn't come immediately after learning a new move suited for your son.

Chris Young

I'll go on this one. I coach middle school wrestling at Doe Creek Middle school, and have for the last several years. I'd say we're a very good MS team (MS State- 1st 2009, 2nd 2012). (Not the top in the state, but top ten or better for sure) Anyways, I show most moves I know to my middle school boys, full aware that I have a variety of different body types that will be able to do some moves and not be able to do others. I will even tell the boys, for example, "most big guys this probably isn't for you." I don't have the luxury of a huge coaching staff (2 of us for 40-60 boys), so some kids are learning moves that I know they'll never use. I have no problem with this, and here's the reason why........

What's to say that tomorrow that they don't have a match against a kid who uses this move as their bread and butter. Practicing a move, learning the intricacies of a move, etc. will my wrestler defend that move. I think it's important that the kid has a full knowledge base on the moves. Also, what if he grows a great deal, or gets skinnier, or gains weight, and his wrestling offensive therefore changes?! I understand you would want someone to fully train him for moves specific to him. If he was older, I would grasp that even more. At his current age level, I would say that he needs to be a sponge and learn as many moves as he can. It's not a bad thing!

Team Scores

1. Doe Creek: 360.5

2. Mt. Vernon: 221.5

3. Greenfield: 208

4. Eastern Hancock: 112

Doe Creek had ALL 18 of their wrestlers in the finals, and 14 of the 18 wrestlers ended up as County Champs. Way to go guys!

Of course he has a shot! He's a dangerous wrestler.. I coached Brian and Connor their 8th grade year at Doe Creek.

Since Connor and Brian were teammates at Doe Creek Middle School (both still live in New Pal). It got me thinking..... Have former middle school teammates ever wrestled each other for a state title?

I know it has to be rare, as most middle school teammates end up on the same high school team.

Cash is really, really hard to score on. He's always in very good position. I know not everyone, but it seems a lot of people are counting him out. I wouldn't just assume it will be Micic vs Boston. Micic vs Cash will be a war first! Excited to see it!

I dont think the real issue is ethics, the real issue is COMMON SENSE and sometimes minding your own business.  It seems that fans and coaches like to think some things are black and white and there is no grey area in the sport.  Thats the beauty of our sport dude, its like this 1.5% rule, so a kid weighs in on Wednesday more than 1.5% than what he can lose before saturday, some coaches say oops he is "ineligible" to wrestle.... common sense tells us that losing another .08% of body weight is no big deal and who is keeping track anyway?  I'll tell you who ; some dumb $#$@#$s coach who is looking for a way his kid with 15 losses can advance to semi-state so he can put in his Bio for the school program that he has coached 100 kids to semi-state....  coaches at times lose sight of what is important, as Dr. Phil would say ,"It aint about you!"  If kid with 15 losses upsets a kid with 1 or 2 losses and gets to semi-state, now that is something to celebrate!!!  do things right mind your own business and be able to lay your head on the pillow at night knowing the kids you coached had an experience they can be proud of!!! 

 

COMMON SENSE and mind your OWN business!!!  Good coaches last!!  Unethical coaches may get their 15 minutes of fame but they tend to burn bright, fast and then OUT!!!  Am I wrong?@?@@

 

While I  I am NOT a high school coach , so I do not have to deal with the 1.5% rule; therefore, I have no opinion on the rule. I am not sure that saying use "common sense, and don't follow the rule is truly the "ethical" thing.

I thought I posted these in the results section! I am sorry. Can a moderator move these!? It won't let me delete them!

Clark Pleasant is another greatly improved team. It was a close dual, and I am sorry I don't know the final score. I do not have the book from last night with me.