BlueBolt

Great Job with the Rankings!

One question...EMD has only one ranked wrestler at this point?  HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

So what is the word on the Sports Writers "Number 1" team in the state? 

The poll is severely flawed from top to bottom.  Castle should handle Reitz this year and may even give EMD a run for their money.  A poll from users of this bulletin board would probably be more accurate, even with regional bias that everyone has.

Castle will be at Mt Vernon this year!  Can't wait to get out there to Posey County!  Should be a great day of wrestling!

103 could be an all-female weight class

 

Have to keep HWT where it is at, don't want to discriminate against the terminally obese.

Ahhh...I see...I am just worried one of those 103's will slip on some butter or whatever those 285's sweat if we start a meet at 285!

Ok how about this...close up the ranks between 189 and 285.   I know there are occasionally very healthy and athletic kids above oh lets say 260, but COME ON!

It's amazing to me that some of the kids wrestling HWY are as large as they are!  

Keep 103...or make it 105 if you like, there are kids who would be used as human chess pieces without this weight class!  (Sorry couldn't help myself!)

Move 215 to 200 or so to keep the jump from 189 to the next class within a reasonable range, and cap the classes at 260 or 265.

anyone have any results from Southridge this weekend?  Nothing in the local paper (surprise surprise - NOT!!!!!).

Blue I understand your arguement but if that is the standard we are going to go by then no sport should be classed.  Not this sport and oh yea this sport, oh but not these sports.  Class wrestling has thrived in other states and to me, Im all for expanding the sport in anyway we can if that means a more small schools and even big schools get more success then so be it.  

 

 

I could care less if we had three team state champs yearly.  Its for the fans anyways. Some five year old who will be in high school in ten years, will really care if we have class or not when his 1a team is winning a state title and he looks up and he can see all 400 hundred people from his town.  

TSpray...I respect your views on this...I honestly do...but I am not saying I sure I understand the point of just because other sports have this format, Wrestling should too. 

I for one have never been a fan of the Team State concept for exactly the reason you listed.  Back in the dark ages when I was in school, Delta was the school to beat for the old Team Title at the Individual Tourney.  It WAS possbile for a hand full of kids from a small community to give that community something it will never forget!  It made those two days in Market Square Arena even more exciting!  AND it gave EVERY wrestler in the state the same chance from their first sectional match to where ever their path took them to win not only an Individual Championship, but to bring home the Team title to his school.  You could literally start the year off with a team of 6 kids and win a state championship based on the performance of the team you could field.  It embodied the idea of Individual working for Team concept.

Don't get me wrong, I am 200% all about whatever gets more kids on the mat as many more times as possible, and I do see the benefit from the team aspect...but awarding a State Title to a team that may have 4 or 5 kids who don't win even one match from Team Regionals on seems odd to me.  I know that sounds harsh, but think about it.  How is that really any different than the old individual tourney determining the State Champions?  You still have a few wrestlers pushing their team forward.

  I do sincerely respect your opinion...

Hasn't it always been "Number 1 until beaten"?

If they had folded their program I might understand them not being on the list, but geeze.

Your arguement is all about evansville mater dei... Yes small school by enrollment that just happens to be in a larger cirty and plays by different rules than public small schools. Please tell what other small school has had such tremendous success under the dual meet format?  

 

 

Oh and Y2 if that 103  doesn't happen to beat those 285's its because the coaches don't work hard or they are not good enough and or he didn't come through the feeder system

Actually No...It's not at all.  As for Mater Dei and all the rehashed crap about "following the rules" and all that...They have one hell of a program.  Love them or Hate them, you have to respect the accomplishments.  Personally I could care less if they ever see Center Grove again...but the message "Class Wrestling" sends seems to be "We can't win in this format, so let's change it".  In the real world where are these kids going to hear "Hey Bob, I noticed you can't get promoted because that smart guy in accounting keeps testing better than you, so we are going to put in a special "Bob" class so you to can be promoted!"?  Seems to be the same message...

agreed we should just have 1 weight.  I mean its an individual sport why should we have sperate weight "classes"?  Wait I know its because of the size diferential.

Actually this is to keep the 285 kids from eating the 103's like candy bars    ;D

Then I say that if wrestling is only a indvidual sport then we should outlaw all use of the  "dual meet"  It is built on a team format and, in the sport of wrestling its all about hard you as an individual train..  Wrestling is unlike any other individual sport we battle another person we need another person to train with. Track, Swimming, Golf those sports you are competing against a clock or a course..

Yes...and of course one can take ANYTHING to any conclusion they may want.   If you go back a read my previous posts you will find the following statement:  

"To keep the point in perspective, wrestling is by it's very definition an individual sport first...and a team sport second.  If the individual steps on the mat and does what he has worked to do, then the team outcome will follow if all are working as hard as they can as individuals.   No one there to pick up the slack or lend a hand.  It's just the wrestler and that six minute monster he has to tame.

"

This statement seems rather clear in stating that it IS a team sport that is primarily based on each individuals performance AS an individual.

I am NOT saying wrestling doesn't have a team componant to it.  

The old addage of "You are only as good as your drill partner makes you" is very true.   I am betting we have all seen schools that have enrollments far below that of the others near by that have a superior wrestling programs.   Thus the concept of "Class Wrestling" does not actually seem be the answer for Wrestling.  

Of course this is just one man's opinion.  

It seems the arguments FOR Class Wrestling are based in the myth that the "Little Guys" can't beat the "Big Guys".  Unless you have been living under a rock for the last few years I am pretty sure you would have to agree that the dominate force in Indiana Wrestling has been one of the smaller schools (per enrollment).  This applies to both the Individual and Team Tourneys BTW.   Each year at the Individual Semi-State the gains by smaller schools are noted by the consistent appearance by schools that have not been present before.  At least the Evansville Semi-State seems to be that way.   Schools like South Spenser, Heritage Hills and Wood Memorial have moved wrestlers into the Semi State and beyond.  Other schools have punched there first tickets to the State Tourney after appearing at the Semi-State Toruney a few times before and even crowned their first State Champions.  

It's about the QUALITY of the programs, NOT the massive numbers in each wrestling room.   Of course I would love nothing more than to see every kid in every school wrestling.  It would do them a lot of good!   But it's just not realistic to even consider.

I know for academic teams there are classes for their state championships.

I hate to say it but I have no idea if they do or not (I'll take your word for it though).  Sort of sad that the Academic teams are pushed harder by the people in charge of Academics ain't it!  LOL

so blue are you in favor of class football?

To me it is an Apples and Oranges comparison of sorts.  I only used the comparision to give some structure to the point of school size as it relates to participation.

To keep the point in perspective, wrestling is by it's very definition an individual sport first...and a team sport second.  If the individual steps on the mat and does what he has worked to do, then the team outcome will follow if all are working as hard as they can as individuals.   No one there to pick up the slack or lend a hand.  It's just the wrestler and that six minute monster he has to tame.

If I had to give and answer to your question, I would have to say Yes - for Football I am in favor of it...althought I think it needs a total overhaul in its implimentation.  But even as it stands, we see 3-A schools kicking the daylights out of 5-A schools year in and year out and 2-A schools who can play with the big schools on any given weekend.  It's more about the skill sets of the teams and what they bring to the table.   As I said, obviously have  a larger pool of talent available to a program greatly increases the odds, but every year we see the "exceptions".  

To sum this up...as weird as it sounds...do we have a "Class System" for High School Debate or Chess?   Or how about Swimming/Diving orTrack and Field?  I am guessing the answer is NO.  Why not?   Well that would be because of the following:

A.  These are individual based activities that focus more on the individual performance than that of the team.

B.  Not a huge source of revenue for the IHSAA or the Education System of Indiana.  

Don't you just HATE it when they just roll over and go to sleep like that?   

Ok...Class Wrestling in Indiana...Boy I sure am glad someone opened up a new and previously unthought of topic here!  ;D

Year in and Year out we watch smaller schools walk out onto the mats and literally pound the day lights out of schools with 3 or 4 times the enrollment.  So the number of bodies in the halls is NOT the measuring stick.

Case in point...In Southern Indiana we have far fewer "Large Schools" than in Central and Northern Indiana.  It's just a matter of demographics.  In the Evansville area for instance there are only 2 Class 5-A schools where the football play offs are concerned.  Both of these schools are at the very small end of the 5-A scale as far as enrollments go. 

BUT - there are a ton of 3-A and 4-A sized schools as well as a fair number of 2-A schools in the surrounding area. 

Each wrestling season these schools meet up and wrestle.  It is amazing to see a 2-A or 3-A school show up to a meet with more kids at weigh ins than a 5-A school has on it's entire roster.    So this begs the question:

How would a Class system work?  Would it be based on school enrollment?  That is obviously not an accurate or fair way of making this division since the enrollment of a school is obviously not an indicator as to how many wrestlers reside within it's walls.  Keep in mind the dominance of the team state competition by a 3-A school for all these years.  Not to mention the numbers of wrestlers from small and mid-sized schools at Individual Tourney. 

Would it be based on the number of kids in the wrestling room?  Well that's just impossible to manage year in and year out and would be far to easy to manipulate. 

From what I can see, it's not about the over all numbers in the program (although it obviously helps to have a good crop!) but the character and commitment of those kids, the coaches, and support systems who make up the program!

I used to have a coach that made his point very clear as often as possible..."I don't care if I only have one kid left in my room the day of the first meet...That kid will be READY to work and hungry to win!".  And he MEANT IT!

Joe,

  This is an idea that is WAY overdue for the Sport of Sports here in Indiana!

Many Thanks and Congrats for you and the team behind this!

One suggestion...and it's a huge undertaking I know...But how about a sort of "Regional Reporter" sort of thing to help funnel scores and outcomes into the board?  That way we may get more info with a less stress on you and your team?

Just a suggestion...

Finals:

Castle def. Evansville North 72-0

Princeton def. Evansville Harrison 52-24

Gibson Southern def. Indian Creek 48-33

Boonville def. North Posey 48-27

Vinecennes def. South Spencer 45-30

As is typical in early December, I am pretty sure each of the teams at this event were not settled into their weight classes just yet.  Also seemed to be a fair amount of "Early Season Rust" that was knocked off in the first couple of rounds.  But over all it was nice to see the improvement in the teams from the recent past. 

Reitz 81 Evansville Bosse 0

Reitz 51 Evansville Central 12

Reitz 76 Paducah (KY) Tilghman 6

Reitz 60 Heritage Hills 6

Reitz 54 Terre Haute North 12

Reitz 70 Jasper 6

Reitz 59 Charlestown 9

Outstanding wrestler Alex Johns 119.  He also set a new record for  career wins in the Reitz program at 151! 

Congrats to the Reitz Panthers!

Does anyone have an update on the young man from Evansville Harrison (I think) that was taken off the mat on a back board today during the Harrison - North Posey dual? 

I certainly hope he is doing well!

Scarey sight!!!!!

Is this not the same poll they run EVERY YEAR at this time? 

So last years returning team champion is ranked 3...Unless they have lost their opening meets I would have to say that is just rubish...

Of course no one seems to know if Mater Dei has even wrestled yet this year...Things are VERY quiet on the Westside these days!

I agree TSkin...

Seems the Evansville SS is being over looked again.

But hey...it's early yet and after what I have seen in the last couple of weeks in the area, it won't be long before the rest of the state starts figuring out whats going on...  LOL

I say if you want to Rank them...Make it So!!!!

I have to believe your average Rabid Wrestling Fan can make the determination that is is more or less opinion based on what "facts" are available.  And I mean that with NO disrespect attached. 

Every year there are "Upsets" and "Unknowns" who step up and make their marks.  It is a GREAT part of the sport we love!

Whatever is posted on any website is just what it is...an educated guess. Enjoy It!