cdnobbe

Point well made fearless.

Thanks.  Just like politicians, we have to get that recognition when we can.

Miguel Perez of South Bend Riley

In '07 he took 4th at sectionals, 3rd at regionals, 4th at semi state

Then....3rd at state

idk how he did it

Wow, that IS impressive!

I absolutely concur that this is an excellent site for the wrestling community.  Thanks Y2 and the others who assist you for all you do to make this available.

I certainly understand the IHSAA would probably not go for it.

I would envision it to be only 42 matches (there truly is no reason to wrestle the 7/8 match), and I don't think it would add that much time.  Fourteen of these matches could be wrestled on a third mat during the last round-two officials on the finals and one on each of the other mats.  The only addition would be 28 matches on three mats at some other point in the day.  That would only add maybe about an hour?

former130,

No, it does not necessarily.  However, the other two solutions that have come up as options by MattM and goul149 are at least things we can look at as solutions.  I still do not see the harm in allowing these matches to happen though.  I am all about getting our kids mat time.  Although it may only be one or two more matches, it is still mat time in a meet which, as many coaches know, just cannot be simulated in practice (except maybe in wrestleoffs).

Instead of using the wrestler that losses to the champ. Why not let the person that loss to the person dropping out become that persons alternate.

Mr. Goul,

I do not mind this idea either.  This is another viable solution given that the IHSAA is not likely to approve any type of wrestleback for these kids.

I know the alternate is not the biggest of worries, but I am glad people have put in their two cents on the issue.

MattM,

What you proposed is not a bad idea either.  You are right, the scenario at semi-state would be a bit more complicated, but definitely doable. 

Being the first year for the current format, certainly issues and kinks will arise that need to be worked out.  That is primarily what I was trying to attempt with this thread.  This is something I saw as an issue (however minor it may seem to some ;D) that could be worked out to come up with a better solution than the current one.

Personally, it would be a toss up as well.  However, I will say that for our team, advancing in the team series has actually brought more fans and supporters to our program.  For a person who has never really been around the sport, or who may be more accustomed to watching team sports, it presents a familiar format that keeps them involved in the action.  I still get comments made to me about how exciting those meets were and how intriguing it was to watch the coaching staffs from both teams strategize with their lineups.  Now, some of these same people are regular attendees at many of our local meets and support the team.  They have also gained a knowledge about the sport they would not have otherwise garnered.  Several of these people were administrators in our own school corporation.  They would always ask how we did before, but now when they ask, they have a genuine desire to know how things went if they could not be there, and they even understand what you tell them when you explained what happened.  On a side note to that, I can remember when one of my high school teammates won a state championship that not a single administrator came to the state finals to watch him.  They ALL stayed home (even the AD) while this kid won the first state championship of any kind for the school.

D2, D3, and other levels of college teams are not always going to go after the kids at the top of the podium.  With the limited recruiting funds available to many of these coaches, they look at state tournaments as a prime opportunity to come into contact with a lot of quality wrestlers at one time.

The opportunities that we can give these kids would certainly be increased by the amount of exposure they have.

Just for my own curiosity, I added a poll.

Y2,

Although I greatly appreciate all the work you do for this site and the betterment of the image of Indiana wrestling, I fail to see how your argument would benefit the wrestlers.  I feel it would hinder some of the better wrestlers from getting the opportunity to be seen by many college coaches during our state tournament.

This is not an argument for the state finals.  I just feel that it is disconcerting to some the way the structure is and that the IHSWCA has fought for full wrestlebacks in the past.  I just thought this would be a fresh approach.

In regard to the state finals, I do think it should be run as a full wrestleback tournament where losers could possibly wrestle all the way back to third.  By starting on Friday night, this could be done.  I know the Jeff Classic is run this way every other year when a basketball game  > does not dictate the tournament has to be a one-day tournament.  The tournament almost always gets done at a reasonable time.

At the end of the day you have to beat the best to be the best.

 

 

Then why do we advance anyone but the champion? That is what the IHSAA would contend as well.  I am sure there are at least a few examples that TAE could give to demonstrate a state champion that did not finish first at semi-state.

However, the person at the top of the stand at Conseco is ultimately the best.  I will agree with that.  However, as an example, the 145 placers at Richmond are the same four from the South Dearborn Sectional.  The only thing is they did a complete role reversal in finish.  All four ended the opposite of sectional placing. 1-4, 3-2, 2-3, 4-1.

I looked for a similar topic through about 10 pages of threads and did not find anything, so I thought I would address it to see what others think.  It occurred to me that the alternate to semi-state, by being the loser in the first round to the regional champion, could be, more often than not, the worst (8th best for those PC people :) wrestler from that regional.  Although the case could be made that this wrestler is not likely to have much of a chance of beating a regional champion anyway, it would at least make for some better wrestling in the event that the alternate did have to wrestle at the semi-state if the following was implemented:  (awkward transition, but I do not feel like going back to reword)

I recognize that the IHSAA will not allow for full wrestlebacks at the regional, semi-state, or state finals.  However, besides the slight addition to time at the regional, I think it would be a good idea to have the first round losers drop down to a separate bracket and wrestle back to fifth.  By doing this, it would allow for the fifth best wrestler to advance as the alternate, thereby allowing for a more competitive first round match-up at the semi-state in the event that the alternate would be called to wrestle.

I do not know if this was ever presented by the IHSWCA during all of the discussions with the IHSAA as a possibility.  The IHSAA may not be interested at all in adding any more time or feel it is fruitless because of the unlikely nature that this alternate would ever make a difference.  A couple of reasons why it may be a good thing:

1.) It allows the kids to wrestle a couple of more matches even if they lose in the first round.  Some parents travel a long way to regional to see their kid lose in the first match of the day.  At the very least, the parent could now see two matches.

2.) To some, it is a big accomplishment to be a semi-state qualifier.  I would feel better bestowing that achievement on someone more deserving than what is likely with the present format.

3.)  As mentioned earlier, it will allow for the fifth best wrestler to advance if the alternate was inserted.

I am certain their are other benefits, but that is what has so far come to mind.  Are there any drawbacks?

What do you think?

Thanks RAGUOC79.

However, Manning beat Presley in OT at 145.  Manning had lost three very close matches with him the past three weeks but finally got him.

Anything for Flodder/Bruneman?

Does anyone have any more results?

South Dearborn advanced 7 to semi-state

125-Tyler Clark-1st

140-Tyler Witte-3rd

145-Nick Manning-1st-Was 4th in sectional-Great turnaround

152-Nick Harrell-2nd

160-Jacob Felser-3rd-Tight loss to von Wasson in Semis

171-Kevin Wilger-4th

215-Ron Forman-1st

I was not there as I had a middle school triple dual at Jennings County.  Here are a few more places I know simply because they wrestled SD in the matches.

140-Chris Struewing-EC-4th

145-Jerod Presley-EC-2nd-Lost to Manning in OT

152-Nick Hutchinson-EC-1st-Beat Harrell in OT

160-Mark Brown-EC-4th

171-Todd Imfeld-EC-3rd

I do not know any others for certain.  I hope someone else can help out with the full results.  If you have 1-4 in each weight class, please open a thread with these on the results page.

Connersville 52

South Dearborn 46

First meet for both teams

Winners for South Dearborn

75 Swift

90 Halbig

100 Manning

105 Miller

110 Raab

120 Sebastian

135 Shaw

140 Wilger

155 Conety

Team and individual placings are posted on the results page.

Team Scores

East Central 277

South Dearborn 226.5

Union County 152

Connersville 145

Franklin County 124.5

Milan 115

Batesville 102.5

Greensburg 96.5

Lawrenceburg 93.5

103

Cody Phillips, 9, Union County

Cody House, 9, Connersville

Garrett Brasier, 11, East Central

Mitch Reed, 9, Greensburg

112

Jerod Findley, 10, Union County

Chase Woodall, 10, Connersville

Chase Wilson, 12, East Central

Travis Sullivan, 12, South Dearborn

119

Nolan Feller, 9, Franklin County

Mike Hahn, 12, Greensburg

Nick Huff, 10, Milan

Zach Bottomley, 1o, Connersville

125

Tyler Clark, 11, South Dearborn

Chad Rynn, 12, East Central

Jose Espinosa, 11, Greensburg

Cody Land, 10, Lawrenceburg

130

Sam Hoegeman, 12, East Central

Jake McCoy, 9, Franklin County

Jake Eliason, 12, Lawrenceburg

Chandler Fosnight, 11, Connersville

135

Jake Bruneman, 12, East Central

Jack Flodder, 12, Batesville

Michael Rogers, 11, Union County

Kreig Studer, 12, South Dearborn

(Alternate-Adam Minges, 9, Milan will be replacing Studer in regional as Studer will be taking ACT)

140

Tyler Witte, 12, South Dearborn

Chris Struewing, 11, East Central

Jordan Maple, 10, Connersville

Curtis Nieman, 12, Greensburg

145

Mason Gesell, 10, Union County

Derek Chapman, 12, Connersville

Jared Presley, 11, East Central

Nick Manning, 10, South Dearborn

152

Nick Hutchinson, 12, East Central

Nick Harrell, 11, South Dearborn

Tyler Riley, 12, Franklin County

Justin Rowland, 12, Batesville

160

Mark Brown, 10, East Central

Jacob Felser, 11, South Dearborn

Brandon Gunter, 10, Batesville

Jacob Hall, 11, Union County

171

Michael Duckworth, 11, Union County

Todd Imfeld, 12, East Central

Kevin Wilger, 11, South Dearborn

Robert Redding, 1o, Lawrenceburg

189

Andy Dalton, 12, East Central

Zak O'Neal, 12, Milan

Dakota Muncy, 12, Lawrenceburg

Nate Finch, 12, Union County

215

Ron Forman, 11, South Dearborn

Nate Haugh, 11, Milan

Bo Staat, 12, Franklin County

Todd Gillman, 12, East Central

285

Ben Jackson, 11, Milan

Nick Burris, 11, South Dearborn

Rodney Quicksall, 11, Lawrenceburg

Jake Viel, 12, East Central

Weigh-ins are at 5 P.M.  We only have one round of wrestling tonight, so the earlier start is not needed.

Yes, you only get three pounds over scratch weight.

Sorry to hear this.  Brendan is a great kid and a terrific wrestler. 

Brendan, I wish you the best with your recovery.

Coach Nobbe

South Dearborn finals is on for tonight.  Weigh-ins at 5 and wrestle the finals at 6.

I still feel it would be the right thing to move the team regional to next week.

Almost every school (8 of 9) in this secti0nal has already closed school for Wednesday.  With some of the school districts receiving 5-8 inches of snow, it is unlikely that the tournament will conclude on Wednesday night.  For those of you who suggest that the tournament should have been completed on Monday night- wrestling concluded at 10:18 P.M. by my watch.  Had we wrestled the final round, some of the kids would have had to wrestle after midnight on a school night.  These kids had been in school all day already.  Several of the teams in the sectional must travel more than an hour just to get back to their schools, not to mention travelling home still.  I do not believe it was ever an option to allow the kids to miss a majority of the school day to be able to begin in the early afternoon.  I know a couple of schools did get out before the end of the day to make the 4 o'clock wiegh-in already.  We should not forget that we are doing what is in the best interest of the kids.  The adults should not do something for their own convenience when it could wind up costing a wrestler who has been up for close to 17 hours already on the day.

As for the team regional, I would hope that the IHSAA will do the right thing by all of these teams and reschedule it for next Tuesday or Wednesday.  It would be unfair to any wrestler involved with this to have to wrestle and make weight so many times, especially when some of the schools will not allow the teams to practice if they do not have school.  This is a disadvantage to any wrestler still involved in either the team or individual tournament.