dinubus

Wrestling is a sport, not a game.  There are many more facets to it, and a larger knowledge base never hurts, whereas a smaller one can.  Those that have the money base to pay for a 1 on 1 coach to competitor ratio will probably succeed in building a good foundation just for that kid.  However, this more 1-dimensional coaching also has a huge disadvantage - the time it takes to rebuild once your limitations are discovered by an opponent.

Track is also a sport, but the coaches don't just work on one thing with the kid.  They have them engage in the whole activity (100 m, or whatever) to get more -track time- just like your coaches are telling your son to get more mat time.  They may have them work on their start over and over again, kind of like your coaches probably have your son work on his stance or shot over and over again because this is one major portion of the whole.  Outside of that, they may give lots of general pointers used over the years by other people who ran the 100m.  In wrestling, the coaches also say- big guys, this one is for you, or small guys, try this.  I hope you get the point.

This tournament has always ran smoothly in the past, always a great tournament.  This year there were a few glitches, as with any tournament, but ones I had grown not to expect at Franklin.  Last year we were out of there after getting medals and everything from Greco by 7:30, this year 9:30 as they didn't get started until after 6:00.  Also, there were 2 kids at a weight class (Intermediate 50) for greco and yet they bumped one up telling him there was noone else to wrestle (this was verified by his coach) and my kid I told he couldn't wrestle up, so they handed him the gold at the weight.  They should have allowed the two to wrestle best 2 out of 3.  Anyway, although I heard from a couple of parents that they didn't want to come back next year, I assured them this wasn't the norm and that next year it would be better. 

Team Jeff (Jeffersonville, Indiana) is hosting an Ironman tournament  on April 14th - 15th (see http://iswa.com/schedules/ for the flyer).  Kids from New Zealand will be participating in this event as they are over on an exchange.  I also happen to know that there will be kids with German, Venezuelan, and Mexican, citizenship that will be competing.  There will also be kids from Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and most definitely Kentucky. 

So, what do you think, should this be advertised as a World or International event?

Does giving five while saying good job count as pay? 

If a wrestlers is unstopable at takedowns and from bottom position, they are an unstopable wrestlers period.  Therefore, don't worry so much about hip control/top moves.  Worry more about hand control on bottom, keep moving on bottom, and basics from both nuetral and bottom positions. 

Only my 2 cents...

I liked the response given by red cobra on the now locked Indy Nationals comments.  I was not planning on attending next year due to this year's happenings, but with what he said, I will give it one more chance.  However; I am hopeful that the neglect shown at this years weigh-ins is not repeated mat-side next year.  If a person does not make the 2 pound allowance, even if they are quite close, they are scratched.  That is how it has to be done.  If it will not be done that way, I would like for us to be let know so I can again plan on not attending.

Tell me it isn't so!

I hear they are letting kids weigh in in their underwear rather than a singlet which is an identified USAW rule that must be followed, especially at a national event. 

I also hear that a kid came in weighing 65.6 lbs and the let him leave to use the restroom, when the kid returned, he weighed 65.3 and they said "All right, we'll say he made it." 

I say I hear because one of my team moms who is very reliable told me this.  I am in shock and awe if this is true.  I didn't pay $40 for an ill run national.  Heck, why have weight classes at all if they are going to be so fluid!

This tournament may be a little further out for you, but thought you may want to check it out.

Dale Griffin Memorial ISU ARENA ∙ 2012

Location: Indiana State University Arena

Entry Fee: $15 pre-registration. Must register by Thursday March 8th at 6:00 pm

Weigh Ins: By email or on registration form

Start: Wrestling begins at 9:30 am

Divisions: PeeWee ? Juniors

Awards: Trophies for 1st and 2nd / Custom medals for all wrestlers

Info: Jeriah Threlfall @ 812-237-4409 or jeriah.threlfall@indstate.edu

Register: Registration forms and information can be found at www.wabashvalleychampionship.com

Register by March 1st get a FREE tournament t-shirt!

Found at www.iswa.com under schedules

dinubus, it's pretty obvious what your goal is as your not the first person to attack Dave Dean and the NUWAY or MYWA Organization.

Anyone can call former and or current Olivet College Coaches and they will give you the facts, former Olivet Coach Todd Hibbs now at Alma College building what will soon be another D3 College powerhouse has shared and expressed his gratitude for what MYWA - NUWAY has done for those programs.  You are correct that many more Michigan Wrestling families use to purchase USAW Cards but Michigan was not getting a return on its investment, many thousands of hard earned Michigan dollars being mailed to Colorado Spring's in the meantime the D1 College programs within the State of Michigan had to do most of its recruiting outside State lines in places like Ohio, or Pennsylvania because Folkstyle Wrestling was not being developed within Michigan.  So yes less Michigan Wrestlers are buying USA Card and Michigan has kept it's money or saved money by purchasing MYWA-NUWAY Membership and re-invested it's dollars in getting better at Folkstyle.  Results have shown with more Mi kids getting recruited and competing in College wrestling then ever before. The numbers don't lie, more D1 NCAA National Qualifiers and All-Americans from Michigan then ever before and higher percentage of wrestlers competing at other levels in College programs.  More National Teams including Youth and High School teams traveling from New York to California competing about 10 months out of the year.

NUWAY just hosted 30 youth teams for a National Duals tournament that offered 4 age based youth divisions that brought teams together from North Carolina, California, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana and I believe if you talk to those folks and ask them what type of experience they had the emails coming in are pretty impressive.  The Results continue to not lie based on participation levels increasing at NUWAY National events in multiple states, continued growth and people reaching out by email and phone calls looking for assistance and a better way for Folkstyle wrestling from numerous States.  We anticipate our April event will attract 1,500 wrestlers from 15-20 States and it's been fun watching the the growth and excitment about Folkstyle Wrestling continue.  You can spin it however you want but just like the young wrestlers that spend time in practice and extra training clinics the ones that are working the most are usually getting the most results.  I think people that are wiling to meet Dave Dean, Andy Hobbs, and many of the other State Directors that include good support and a promising future out of New York's Cornell University one will find that these guy's are real people and have what it takes to help continue making improvements for Folkstyle Wrestling.   

The most obvious thing here is who is getting paid by NUWAY and therefor willing to come up with stories to protect it.  Statistics don't lie, but liars do statistics - show us these unbiased websites, books, or other research articles that go along with your story.  You come up with a coach that was at Olivet college for what 3 years?  Ask someone with some actual experience like Coach Klein.  Heck, I only took state 1 time in Michigan in class C/D as a Sophomore at 103 lbs, yet I was offered a D1 scholarship to Michigan.  I did not accept as my neck was broken, but that was in the mid 90s and you try to make out like they had less back then??  The Cunningham brothers were from another C/D school in Michigan and I believe it is Ryan who now wrestles on our World team.  This of course would not happen under MYWAY which gets rid of Olympic styles.  But anyway.  You go ahead and milk money out of people under your guise.  I will say no more as I grow tired of your worthless words.  I only post so others here in Indiana know what HYWAY is really about and how it will ruin future wrestling in Indiana. 

Olivet College was kept alive by Coach Jare Klein.  When he finally retired (he coached my uncle and was still coaching while I was in college) he helped find another coach himself.  Obviously as with any small D3 college, wrestling doesn't bring in much money so it staggered with  a new coach, but it was never truly in jeopardy. 

Furthermore, Wrestling in Michigan has dramatically declined since the 80s to early 90s.  I don't know where you think you are getting your facts from (Did Dave Dean feed you this propaganda?), but they are untrue.  Michigan, in the early 90s went from a 3 tier system "A", "B", & "C/D" to a 4 tier Div. I, II, III, & IV which divided schools more evenly into all divisions as prior to that, the number of small schools of "C" & "D" actually outnumbered the schools present in the other 2 divisions.  The new system even allowed smaller schools who won multiple years in a row (like Dundee, of course Cabellas made its population grow as well) to change their Division and schools not doing so well to move down divisions.  With this model in play, the wrestling maintained at the high school level for a few more years.  However, the numbers were not as great as in the late 80s,  MYWAY then started up (and dwindled the USAW numbers) and all the small school areas that held their smaller tournaments which would lead to their kids going to USAW districts, region, and state now no longer had that  opportunity and didn't have the money to join MYWAY.  This has lead to much less off season wrestling in smaller areas.  If you would like to believe that MYWAY increased wrestling, check into the Flint All Starts who were a top ranked kids club in the nation in the late 80s and early 90s.  We had lots of wrestling prior to MYWAY which has really ruined Michigan wrestling.

If you all would like to look into these HYWAY people, please check out this link:  http://www.flowrestling.org/speaker/7388-Andy-Hobbs/video/326975-Andy-Hobbs-Leading-Indiana

Notice everything he said is already present in USAW sanctioned events for much less money per tournament.  Then notice what he says about Dave Dean and his "business strategy".  Little Kid wrestling is not supposed to be about making money.  The tournaments themselves can be used as a fundraiser for the high school they program supports, but it should not be gaining some bigshot in the area Money!  USAW is not for profit.  All of its money goes into training our Olympians and future Olympians out in Colorado Springs.  All of our Junior (and I believe Cadet as well) wrestlers that place in Fargo Nationals can go and train for free at Colorado Springs due to USAW.  What does MYWAY, HYWAY, NUWAY do for our Olympians?  For our high school teams.

A national event can be claimed as you say because people from more than one state attend.  Thus, the Kentucky USAW state finals tournament which allows people from Indiana to attend because they would like more competitors to compete would be considered a "National" event.  However, most "Nationals", not including this Indy thing, that you go to under USAW must be qualified for.  Making them worth the extra money.  Of course, even Indy is cheaper than most of these NUWAY national events.  BTW:  How do you get National Youth from NU?  Oh, and back when the Ohio State fair tournament was run in a barn next to the cows (you could actually see them go potty and everything from the stands), it was an International tournament because I hit a kid who was Ontario Providence champion! LMBO

I went to the HYWAY site and found very few tournaments period, and most are labelled with "Nationals".  Why are these - Middle man- groups trying to take away from the local events of USAW (and ISWA)?  I have already seen it happen up in Michigan where MYWAY got started by a man who claimed to be disgruntled with USAW and yet he still has everything sanctioned by them.  I like the incremental weight classes of these groups (3 lbs for younger kids, then 4, then 5, etc...) as it is more fair in comparison to their age and actual weights.  However, the age groups don't make any sense (I could see them if it were based off from your year in school, but it is not) and yet you have to pay this middle man mark up on every tournament.  I assume that is why they call most of them Nationals, so people are willing to pay top dollar and some guy can get rich off the process.  I truly hate seeing this ruin the wrestling in Indiana also.  When I wrestled in Michigan, every local tournament I entered had at least 15 kids in my weight class.  Now, there are very few tournaments in the area I used to wrestle and those that have tournaments (MYWAY tournaments) have very few wrestlers show up.  I for one will never take my boys to a MYWAY, HYWAY, or NUWAY tournament.  I will always support the local tournaments and US Olympians through USAW --> Much cheaper, more for your money, better competition overall, better for our future youth, better for the sport all around.

1. I was involved when Indy Nationals premiered and there was faxed weigh ins. it modeled off of liberty nationals accepting weights from Virginia duals. 

 

2. I don't believe Chad Red is the tournament director.

 

3. I like declare your weight.  show up day of and weigh in and if you don't make declared weight,  you scratch.  period.  no pay to move brackets. just go home.  thanks for the donation.

 

What if the coach sent it in and made a mistake?  We are all human.  I cannot see causing that sort of internalized stress on a child because of a mistake a coach may have made.  At my club, we have parents who do not like to pay online, so they pay the coach and the team puts them into trackwrestling.  If this were high school ages, I could agree with you, but for little kids, I think it is absurd.

I think a little training on trackwrestling would solve this.  Heck these brackets are not seeded, so if you are doing it by hand, it doesn't take long to add a guy to a bracket and make sure it is balanced.  Same goes for dropping a guy.  Obviously, some tournament helpers could use a quick training just prior, but other than that, it shouldn't be a big issue.

What about having the wrestlers step on the scale at skin check and instead of making a check on his arm we write his actual weight right there on his arm for all to see.  I'm not suggesting that we re-pair based on this weigh-in.  My hope is that the shame, scorn and peer-pressure associated with seeing my Intermediate 50 pounder out there wrestling with a big bold 56 written on his arm would be enough of a deterrent.  This way we can still use  track wrestling and faxed in weights to speed up the tournaments and there won't be the accusatory whispers, glances or outright arguments about what each kid weighs.  We will ALL know at a glance. 

The embarrassment should not be on the kid, rather on the parents/coaches.  The dishonesty does end up bleeding down to the kid, but initially it is not the child's fault.  What I am trying to say is that it would be less of a discomfort for the kid to be eliminated from the tournament and by doing such without paying the parents back, whosoever did the weights wrong would have to deal with his/her own negative repercussions.  Now this is not to say that coaches don't just make legitimate mistakes sometimes, but by making them pay for it (they could pay to have the kid move up a weight), the issue would not take place too often.  If it is the parents fault, then they can pay to move him up or just go home.  It won't take long for them to learn the lesson as well.

Wait, What?? That's a 2 pound allowance with shoes and singlet on. And weigh-in as you walk to your mat to wrestle. Very curious how you think that could possibly attract weight cutting? We wrestled less than 20 min after weigh-in last year.

 

No one will copy this because they aren't prepared to turn wrestlers away for not making their declared weight as MS state does. It's a$$$ and cents issue , nothing more. So...

I apologize, didn't know that every kid was weighed just prior to wrestling.  That would act as a deterrent.  I was merely commenting about a 2 lb allowance.  I don't see where any issue would be with what kids have to weigh in wearing.  As long as everyone has to do it, why would we need to give any allowances.  Weight allowances just encourage weight cutting. 

As always infolady thanks for your input. As I understand the ISWA is not a big fan of faxed weigh-ins in keeping with USA Wrestling. In most cases this is an attempt to attract more wrestlers. If it were intended to create convenience it would be offered to all. Not just those coming from out of state. IMO Middle School State attracts very good numbers and utilizes what might be the most fair weigh-in procedures. Morning of the event with 2# allowance. Discourages weight cuts as well.

 

It will be interesting to watch those who fax weigh-ins and follow them on track at their own state tournaments. Another cool feature of trackwrestling.

Actually a 2 pound allowance attracts weight cutting.  Whenever there is a weight allowance, others think --hmm, I might just be able to make that now.  Weight allowances may have, in the beginning, been thought to go against weight cutting, but the end results have always shown the opposite to be true.

What you suggest would be great but unfortunately some schools do not allow clubs to utilize their internet access and from what information I have gathered there is a monthly charge for the sprint cards, something like $60 per month. Also, many clubs do not have the computers, etc. it takes to run an event entirely on trackwrestling. But it is not that difficult to use trackwrestling for registration and pairing the first round. Even if you have to pair the rest of the tournament at matside the old fashion way it will help eliminate cheating.

That is where the clubs need the help of the HS coach.  He typically can obtain the guest password in the least if not having his own log in credentials with the school.  With this, there would be no problem.  All that aside though, even the route you explain would be better than nothing. 

If tournament hosts would utilize the trackwrestling system for registration it would eliminate registration and payment at events. Wrestlers would also be asked to declare a weight at that time.  The morning of the event, wrestlers would be required to go through skin checks and weigh-ins. If parents/coaches know the wrestlers weights will be checked, it will encourage them to be truthful when registering.  Yes, it will take a little extra time to check weights but not nearly as much time as when all registration, payment and weigh-ins are held on site. According to what I have been told, utilizing trackwrestling for registration is less then $1 per wrestler.

 

The ISWA is in the process of developing pairing clinics to train more people to use trackwrestling. I beleive this is the wave of the future and may eventually eliminate the faxed/emailed weigh-ins issue and still allow tournaments to start at a reasonable time.   

I hope this happens.  I also hope they all start utilizing the trackwrestling system for tournament pairing advancing the tournament with it.  I realize that either takes the ability to use the schools internet or someone to purchase a mobile stick, but it takes care of pairing issues at the tournament and takes away the need for the extra paper use as parents can look it up on their phones online rather than track down the brackets in the hallways.

So you think they should weigh in at 10 then pair all the brackets and be ready to wrestle @ 1?

When I wrestled, all the tournaments had weigh-ins between 7 & 8 and wrestling started between 9 & 10 typically at 9, but at poorer tournaments that accepted late people to weigh-in they were still started by 10:00.  Now, I will agree that this is a bigger event - or so it is supposed to be.  That being said, I would suggest an earlier weigh in time of between 8 & 9 and we could easily start wrestling by Session II.  At a Nationals, morning of Weigh-ins should be the norm.

Team Jeff - Jeffersonville High school is hosting a tournament this weekend with Greco in the Morning and Folkstyle at night.  Contact Shayla Shepherd if you would like to get your team in.  shayla shepherd --> ats3sas@yahoo.com

My only question about Indy Natls is why not let the kids wrestling in session #2 which starts at 1pm, weigh in on Sunday morning?  It wouldn't take much to hold a Sunday weigh in around 10 am during session 1.  It's a lot for me to drive my grandson 2 hours to the Saturday weigh in, 2 hours back home, then 2 hours to the tourney, then 2 more hours back home.  That's 8 hours in the car over 2 days, when with a minor change it could be just 4 hours in the car in 1 day.

I completely agree!  The only one making out on this deal is the hotels. 

for the record Indy Nationals has had and implemented this policy since the inception. however it is suppose to be weigh ins from an other national or high school sanctioned state finals event.

Although I don't agree with it having ANY fax/email weigh-ins, this does seem to make things better assuming it is actually checked into.  With the cost of the tournament, I would think things should be run right.  I know that there are people out there with lots of money to spare and can send their kids halfway across the country taking off school, work, etc... to enjoy in the events, but most of us are just trying to get by and $30 is a-lot!

Sounds like whining to me.  Do you have proof of the kid's weight or are you just sure he was overweight because he beat your son?

Come now, this is a discussion area, not a place for picking fights.

We wrestle both ISWA & MYWAY tournaments.  The solution to the honor system that MYWAY uses is a true satellite weigh-in the night prior to the event.  If there is a tournament within the Southwest region of the state you can weigh-in the night before the event at the actual tournament location or at one of two alternative weigh-in sites witin the same region.  Weigh-ins are generally from 6-8pm the night before the event.  They still allow weigh-ins the day of the tournament, however they end them an hour and a half before the start of the tournament, which encourages people to attend the satellite weigh-ins.  I also find it disheartening that a parent or coach of a youth wrestler would stoop to cheating to win a tournament at any level.  Too often parents fail to realize that wrestling is a great sport for developing lifeskills and although victory is the ultimate goal when you step on the mat, they are undermining the lifeskills component of the sport by lying about a child's weight, especially since wrestlers are typically aware of their own weight.       

That has been used in the USAW tournaments as well.  Franklin Ironman, is just one that tops my mind.  Personally I cannot stand the way MYWAY has destroyed Michigan wrestling and had worked its way in through northern Indiana.  Back when I was a kid in Michigan (late 80s and early 90s), there were tons of tournaments every weekend until Mid-May, kind of like here in Southern Indiana.  Now, they have some local tournaments, very few except in or around Detroit area, and then there are the overly expensive MYWAY tournaments.  Down here in Southern IN, I can take my kids almost every weekend to a tournament within 1.5 hours drive for $10.  Of course, the only people that seem to really like MYWAY are those that don't see the use in learning more than 1 style of wrestling, those type of people that don't figure their kids will every be good enough to live the dream of going to the Olympics.  The type of people that think wrestling should be for just one season, and get rid of that extra 3 months out of the year that leads to the toughest tournament for all of our most likely to get a top scholarship kids - Junior Nationals.