Trainer

My question is clearly medical:

 

Id a doctor ays a wrestler is not healthy enough to wrestle, how then can that doctor clear the wrestler 2 hours later?  I do not understand this.  I am not taking shots at Willis, he wanted to wrestle but the doctor said "no".  If a wrestler is medically unable to wrestle, then why are they allowed to finish the tournament very shortly after the injury.  Seems like a liability issue to me on the doctors part and the part of the IHSAA.

As I've said in a previous post, one instance that I, as an athletic trainer, would not let a wrestler continue would be if there were some neurological issues involved with the shoulder injury.  According to the IndyStar, Willis did complain of his hand going numb, and as a health professional you have to believe him.  Many times this will not resolve in a minute and a half, but will do so in less than 4 or 5 hours (however long it was before he wrestled again).  Each injury differs from the others (Colt McCoy's nerve injury is still healing I believe), so we have to make decisions based upon the individual and not on generalizations.  I am, however, a little surprised he wasn't favoring it more during the finals.  I'm sure he wasn't 100%, but he did look pretty good.  As long as his strength and special tests looked good between matches, I certainly would have let him wrestle that night.

Also, the Dr. would have had the time to discuss the situation with his parents in between matches.  He probably warned them of any potential issues going forward, but obviously couldn't do that during injury time after his injury.  These are some of the things that would have happened from a medical point of view at the high school level.

dang so obviously the move is dangerous and has a high chance of injury and vlahos still threw it and threw it HARD!!! did not know that he had previous instances where he had been penalized for throwing the move. thats pretty cheap of him and makes him look even worse in my eyes.  but like i said earlier willis was groining and making noises and vlahos continued to crank the throw and did not look like he was going to stop til the refs stopped it. luckily they got there where they did

I'm pretty sure he's never been penalized for this move before--I've seen him throw it and it was stopped for being potentially dangerous is all

I rarely comment on issues such as this one. However, I feel that I must since the integrity of a young man and a coaching staff are in question.

 

My name is Tom Clark and I am a licensed IHSAA referee and one of two State Rules Interpreters. This year I was not eligible to officiate the State Finals due to our rotation system so I was asked to by Jim Russell to assist him in his duties as Supervisor of Officials. I guess my main point behind this is to explain why I was on the floor and what role I was in while there.

 

I have an advantage in this situation that most, if not all, of you do not have. I was there. I heard the conversation between Tyler WIllis, his coaches and the medical personel. Please understand that what I am about to say is not rumor, heresay, innuendo or second or third hand....it is fact...I was there.

 

Tyler Willis and his coaching staff CLEARLY wanted to continue the match. The medical personel said NO. The medical personal cannot be overruled. Period!

 

The technique that was described to me by the match referees is illegal by application. To clearly define this....an athlete does not have to complete the technique for it to be illegal....it's illegal when the athlete takes that particular hold.

As I mentioned earlier, I've seen Vlahos throw this several times and he's never taken a penalty for it (that I'm aware).  I'm not sure how he's expected to know it's illegal if it hasn't been penalized previously.  In fact, he threw it when he was a sophomore at state I believe.  They stopped it, but didn't penalize him.  The call must be easy to miss...

 

 

 

If anyone was at the Ft. Wayne Semi State the young man from Kokomo at 112 completely dislocated his shoulder everyone saw it sticking out.  He layed on the mat in pain they pressed it back in, and went on to finish the match.

From an athletic training standpoint, the kid probably dislocated it before or didn't have any of the problems as mentioned in the previous posts.  If he's "stable" and has good strength with a history of dislocating, it would be much different than doing it for the first time with persisting symptoms, which is presumably what Willis was experiencing.

I think, despite many, many reports from people familiar with the situation, the angry poster honestly believes that it was the Cathedral coaches who told Tyler Willis that he should not wrestle, so that he might be assured of the win.

 

To a one, everyone familiar with matside evaluation has stated that it was the IHSAA doctor who flat-out told Willis he must not finish the match with an acutely dislocated shoulder.  Liability-wise, I can't see any coach overruling a doctor by telling a wrestler in Willis's situation to finish a match, when a specialist has told the wrestler he must stop.  The legal risk would be huge.  I can't even see the IHSAA condoning it.

 

It is clear that the angry poster has issues that go deeper than this.  Most of us experienced with these type of people have learned that there are times we just need to count to ten and walk away.  This is one of those times.

I am an athletic trainer and I wrestled in high school and before for many years.  I've seen Vlahos throw that move many times in competition and have never seen him penalized for it.  I have seen it called potentially dangerous when he threw it once, which it should be.  The big problem I see is that he's never been penalized for it before in high school (that I'm aware of), so he probably didn't think he would be penalized for throwing it again.  If he kept the move and used it after he was warned by the official, then he should be penalized.  I think it happened too fast for that sequence to ensue.

From a fan standpoint, I immediately turned to the person I was sitting next to and said "Willis better not wrestle tonight if he can't finish this match now--the crowd will go crazy if he does and to many it will look very cowardly".  Even though he presumably had an acutely subluxed shoulder (where it pops out and comes right back in), he could have wrestled (in my mind) if the following conditions were met. 1)it's happened before and it's been "controlled" 2)he has no acute symptoms such as tingling, numbness, etc (don't want any nerve damage or other issues).  I've let some wrestle even if they've got some fairly considerable pain as long as they have the strength to protect themselves, which was probably checked on the mat.  I'm pretty sure he didn't have any imaging done between matches!  You'll notice they stuck him in a stabilizing brace for the finals.  Even though these help, it certainly doesn't guarantee anything (i've seen them sublux again with these on).  I personally don't think the addition of this would sway a Dr. too much in allowing him to wrestle in the finals, but not finish his match with Vlahos.  He must have initially displayed considerable pain (which of course is subjective and what many fans are questioning), weakness (which can be tested), and/or other symptoms indicating something more severe.  I don't even know if this was his diagnosis for sure, but it's what I heard circulating about after the match.  The brace can be used for other problems, too.

All of these things have to be evaluated and a decision made in a minute and a half!  If it's never happened to the kid before, sometimes it seems a little worse at first than what it really is.  That being said, the shoulder usually feels worse a few hours later than it did right away (if it's his first time).  I personally would have told the kid and his coaches after the match that if it's this bad now, it's probably not going to feel much better for the finals (without knowing his history).  It certainly didn't look too bad to me in the finals...but there are also so many variables to consider. 

I'd say about 90% of the time the coaches will look to the medical professional on hand for their recommendations concerning whether or not the athlete should continue.  It looked to me like they consulted the athletic trainer, but I've seen many coaches force their hands on this issue.  Hopefully, it was a decision made by careful, professional judgment made between the coaches, medical professionals, and athlete combined.  Certainly a difficult, but rightly questionable decision was made in this match.