Dolbydude Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Trying to get some opinions on how the Elementary duals were started in Indiana. I've been a part of wrestling here in the state with my older boys and now im at the last stage of the elementary scene with my youngest son. Its been a great learning experience for me and I've met probably the best group of coaches that a sport could have. Even in times of stress of bickering across the mat, somehow by the end of the day we meet, shake hands and laugh about how emotional we get with the sport and our wrestlers. My question is this....and feel free to correct me if my interpretation is incorrect. The ISWA Elementary duals began to give our younger wrestlers the high school dual atmosphere which in my opinion, it has accomplished. I couldn't begin to name the number of matches where both sides of the mat were on the edge due to the intense nature of some of the wrestlers. I think its a great learning experience and it DOES build team unity at an early age. If you can get a good number each year to buy into this, after a couple of years, you will have a nice start to a good future. Duals should always be a part of the ISWA season and hopefully built on as the years go by. That brings up the next topic that has me baffled........How can you manually seed the top 4 teams from a previous year? What criteria, besides them placing in the top 4 should guarantee them separation the following year? If that's honestly the case, then the top 4 teams should return with the same lineup from bottom to top. I'll even throw in the same wrestlers at different weights. As long as the team is the same as the previous season, all will be good. However, there is no way for that to be possible. For one, your older wrestlers at 6th grade move on to middle school.....You will generally come across a nice little 40 lb brick wall to add to the mix.....family's move in, family's move out.....heck, its possible that a wrestler will hang up his headgear to live the dream of travel basketball (please forget that I even used that as an example). Nonetheless, I hope you get my point. If this were individual, yes, there should be separation. BUT, this is a team event which should call for some different form of separation. My thought is this.......Indiana clubs and the ISWA need to sit a round table and come up with a seeding or "separation" criteria that's either all or none. It can be based on your team rank using trackwrestling or another recordkeeping program. My belief is that last season is last season. If you want to be separated from another club, you need to earn that during the season. Since the ISWA sanctions elementary duals, results should be easily accessible. Not sure if there is more to it than what im thinking and if there is, please let me know your thoughts. Im 40 years old, but im not ashamed to learn new things. Second, whichever the result is....setting brackets or pools should be a public meeting. I am unsure if the date and time was missed, but it was stated on the second page of the state dual flier that a time and date would be sent out. Again, if this notification ended up in my junk mail, my apologies and lets move on. This is not intended to start bickering or a war, however, I've been that small team that was on the outside looking in and the changes mentioned above will GROW the number of clubs participating in the dual season. We've seen it first hand. Feel free to comment as I would like to gather some thoughts from others. Again, this isn't meant to start bickering or bad feelings, its meant to make it better for the next guy. If any of you know me on and off the mat, you know that im not the type of person to start a fire. Thanks for taking the time to read. Coach Shelton Franklin Central Wrestling Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Coach Shelton, First off, I think that we have always seen eye to eye. You and your team are always class acts. Thank you for all that you do for the kids. I am no longer a ISWA board member so I can not speak for the organization. With this said, I did have a big hand in developing these duals. Maybe I can shed some light on your concerns. Seeding- Being that this tournament goes from 40 pounds to 175 and from pre-K through 6th grade, There is a very good chance that teams will only lose a few wrestlers each year (some less some more). We only lose three this year. With that said, each team is allowed 23 wrestlers. The vast majority of all teams come back. When we started this tournament, we came to the conclusion that if you were one of the top teams the year before, that you would be a top team the following year. We also felt that those top teams should be separated. With this said, this has proven to be the case year in and year out. In the five year history of the event, the seeded teams have only been beaten in pool play a few times. I think that every seeding committee would take those results. With this said, those top teams which got beat typically finished in the top 8. The seeding also allows teams to not have two or three of the top teams in their pool, and take a pounding all day. Lastly- The draw verbiage in the flyer is dated. Prior to our vast knowledge of trackwrestling, we did hold the draw at the office. It was a way to let people see that it was on the up and up. By the way..... we did it while the truck was to be loaded to Jedi mind trick people to come help. Needless to say nobody showed up (same with all ISWA board meetings or truck loads or unloads). It was just the same ol people who do 90 percent of the work. Pat Culp does a blind draw. Pat does not have a team in the event, and does an outstanding job doing draws at all of our ISWA events. I assure you that her integrity is second to none. The current powers to be are now aware of this mistake, and will fix it for next year (thanks to you). With all of this said, you guys have a mature and solid team. You should do great no matter where you fall. I just hope that you are not in our pool!!!! Good Luck this weekend., Hope to share some good times and laughs. Brewer Edited January 5, 2016 by Mattyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROPOWER Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Coach Shelton, This is Chris Lynch - one of the Vice Chairs for the ISWA. I will try to answer some of your questions the best I can. The Elementary State Duals were started 5 or 6 years ago when I was Folkstyle Director for the ISWA. Hearing many request from coaches to have such an event Franklin Wrestling Club took it as one of their events and ran with it. I first started it as a local club event and an Academy Event - that didn't work so had to make changes at last minute to have enough teams to have the event. Since then it has grown 3 times over thanks to the help great coaches like yourself and past and current ISWA Board Members that have really worked hard to make this a great event. That is a little history on the event. With that being said we have used the criteria of separation the top 4 teams from the previous year since the 2nd year of having the event when it was discussed at board meeting on how we would separate the top teams. Wrong or right that is the way we put it into place - thats not saying we can't change the way we do it for future years but thats the way it will be set up for this year. The top 4 Team from pervious year rule is for separation and not seeding. Another thing that has changed that we have failed to take of the flyer (and can be blamed on me since i should check all printed material before it goes out) is the Team Draw. This being the 3rd year we have used Trackwrestling at this event - our head pairing person for this event Pat Culp - separates the top 4 from the previous year and lets the computer randomly place the other teams - this is done at her home and not at the ISWA office. Anyone that would like to make recommendations on any changes - such as the ones Coach Shelton can be e-mailed to the ISWA office at iowa@sbcglobal.net and we would be happy to consider different ways of doing things. Thank you and look forward to great event this weekend and remember we do this for the kids! Chris Lynch ISWA - Vice Chair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolbydude Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 As always, thanks for the additional insight. That makes things more clear for me and im sure others. NOW!!!! lets have some fun with this topic and change some gears.......If there was one thing I would request for the upcoming duals is a true parade of Teams. I've done the math for you already so the thinking part is done. You'll just have to figure out when to squeeze it in, which before the first match would be ideal. Okay, you take 20 teams and an average of 20 wrestlers per team. You can give 10 seconds per team to announce their club and let them enter the Multi-purpose area. You should be able to announce 6-7 clubs per minute. That's only 4-5 minutes added to the start time of the duals. Where the teams go would be up to you and how far you want this to go. Teams could line up from one side of the mats to the other. Or, you could form rows of teams on the mat. Whichever would be easiest for the picture of all the teams together before we go at it. WHATCHA THINK? See what happens when I get a question answered? It frees up my mind to think about fun stuff. Thanks for the replies guys. legger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I love the idea of a 'Parade of Teams'! Great opportunity for a photo too. Justin Ratliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Great idea. Many of these young hammers will be marching in the Parade of Champions in a few short years at high school state. Let's promote Indiana wrestling. It is the little things that make good memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I like it! Line them up down the hall way toward the wrestling room. Bring them out at that end. Walk them around the field house then up the middle of the mats, prior to the national anthem! bwoodjc89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMILL Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Mattyb.............so does this mean you are willing to get on the mic and be the announcer for this parade of teams introduction ? Thanks for the help, kinda your last duty for ISWA.....LOL Edited January 7, 2016 by JMILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Let's hire the dj from Brownsburg. Btw.... Who said I was done. Just taking a break! Too many irons in the fire now. My oldest boy is getting cut on today. Prayers please and thanks! #youngguns #gettinghealthy #hendrickscountyhashtagwars Edited January 7, 2016 by Mattyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMILL Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) not budgeted for this year but that guy is great and fills the seats !!!! Thanks for noticing the awesomeness that is the #paintrain . Hope all goes well for him, I am speaking for all of Brownsburg and Hendricks Co saying we hope for the best outcome and speedy & full recovery. Edited January 7, 2016 by JMILL Mattyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolbydude Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 With that being said, can the teams plan on a formal parade before the start of the event? Hope everything went well with your son. See you guys Sunday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 It will be up to Ryan Parrish (developmental folk style director), jmill (folk style director), Pat Vanhorn (state tourney director and our host), Chris lynch(state vice chair), Louis rossbottom (state chair) and the other great folks that run this tourney. I am no longer on the board but will be more then willing to help organize if they decide to do it. Surgery went well. Now long road to rehab! Sig40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROPOWER Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 GOOD NEWS! - We will have a parade of teams before the event. Coaches meeting will be at 8:30 - during that time we will be lining up kids for the parade of teams. Once coaches meeting is over (around 8:40) we will start parade of states. Should be fun for the kids and parents. If you have a school flag or sign you would like to carry please bring with you. Chris Lynch ISWA - Vice Chair takedownartist and DLane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ask and you shall receive. The ISWA is awesome!!!!! We do not give these people enough credit. Not only do we have the biggest community based state elementary dual championship in the USA..... we get a parade to boot!!!! This event is growing like wild fire. I look forward to a great event. Justin Ratliff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Any changes w weather? I got families messaging me saying they can't get out of Madison??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonster Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Dolbydude, If I'm reading your first question correctly reference, when the elementary duals first started in Indiana? Many moons ago (16/17) years ago Coach Peck. From New Castle, Coach McCormick and Delaney of Yorktown are the grandfathers of the elementary duals. I can still remember Lowell showed up a New Castle with 5-6 kids ( those kids were Drew Hughes, Tucker) and a few other studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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