Drooke Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm so confused about Hernandez and Coughlin this year. They both AA'd early on in there college career (which totally means they have major talent) only to seemingly regress, or not progress. Does anyone have any insight? I thought this was going to be a coming out party year for both guys. Sadly, that is evidently not the case. Does any other Div 1 college program have two AA's sitting out (other than Iowa)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 After some thought I don't think leclere has AA'd. Sorry I don't think I can edit from a crackberry. I wish I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbp Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 No-Both men you speak of have gotten worse every year at IU-does that say something about them mor the program ? Matt AA's his freshman year -then 2 and out -this year he was beaten by Kinder and really shouldn't have wrestled a match -Andre AA'd his soph year then was 20-12 last year and this year just sucks -Coughlin lost to an NAIA kid -and Andre just sucks -that kid Goldman chased off last year after he stomped on Kelly at wrestle offs is at Notre Dame College -an NAIA school but against Purdue he stuck Redman the guy who won the Purdue match for them .I hope Kinser and Young wise up and transfer -especially Kurt -13-2 with a championship at MSU open and 7th at Kliff keen in Vegas -but he has spent most of his time on the bench -I'd like to see them at CMU next year -same with Powless -does anyone remember the IU wrestle off when he beat Cameron -now he has won a dozen or so matches at 97 and could probably make 74 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 I think that the mena could write his own ticket (possibly as head coach to ASU). He has proven himself with 3 National Champs at 125. Other than that.....meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbp Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you won't say it I will -Goldman sucks -Degain is a joke and Mena can work only with small guys -i have heard that the super freshman -Ramos- has asked to leave -Minton left -and when was the last time you ever heard of a senior leaving his senior year -Max Dean -Goldman recently reached 20 wins -how many were against ranked foes ? They roll into National duals unbetaten and go 2-0-then tie a Penn State team who had a hurt 49 lber , a reserve 141 wrestling 57 and Vallimont wrestled up a class and they tie ? Esco should have had the surgery -he won't AA this year -IU has 3 wrestlers who have any heart or desire left -Kinser ,Young ,and Powless -Powless should be a 74 lber -it is almost funny -he kicks Fagiano off the team and makes Everhart go heavy -Now they have an overweight 174 -listed as an 84 as the starting 197 -Everhart tries but 50-60 pounds a match is too much-Cameron embarassed himself -getting turned by a 6-6 kid 5 times with the same move . I hope IU loses every match , then maybe they'll realize that after 13 years there will be no ''rebuilding''. Only more of the same -have the AD schedule a bunch of 3rd rate schools then go 2-6 or 3-5 at best in the big 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator130 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 This post just shows you know nothing about IU wrestling Pat placed third at Ncaa's and is a very nice guy along with bein a great coach. Maximus left IU to go to grad school in Oklahoma, the reason he left was based on academics. This happens quite often when people graduate in four years but play athletics for five, one such example Scott Moore transfered from Penn State to Virginia the year he placed third. Also super freshman ramos lost to another freshman in the IU wrestle offs so maybe he realized making the team in the next couple years would be difficult with kinser at 157 and the other frosh in the room at 149/157. Im not in the room but watching the wrestle off, the match between Cameron and Powless was won off a last second td, with that match it is impossible to tell who wins in the room, possibly Cameron gets the better of him in the room. Im sure the coaches who have nine all-american performances amoung them know more about how to arrange the team then you. I would say 3 ncaa titles in four years the coaches are doing pretty good. This year is going pretty rough, but my guess is they will turn the corner for big ten's and ncaas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So in order to be a good coach you have to have been a great wrestler? Geeze, why is Tom Borelli doing so well at Central Michigan then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator130 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 No and you dont have to be a nice guy either thats why I said along with being a great coach, but when you garner those accolades you should get more respect when you produce three ncaa titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dubuque and Escobedo were expected to contend for NCAA titles, why hasn't IU qualified the 141lb spot for the NCAA's the past four years? I would expect a great lower weight coach to be able to develop kids that are at the very least qualifying for nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator130 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So are you saying the coaches don't get any credit for them getting nationals titles because they were expected to content for a national title? Many big time recruits come in and don't even make it to the point where they can contend for a title, let alone win one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If they were such great coaches why aren't they even getting an NCAA qualifier at 141lbs? Why aren't they developing the talent in that weight class? I would expect a "great" lightweight coach to develop more than one weight class and be able to help a weight class in which they are struggling at. Mena's job at IU with Escobedo is to not ruin him, its pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator130 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 So are you saying Iowa has ruined Alex because he hasn't won a title? I would say no. But he went into college with more with more expectations. Joey went from not qualifying as a frosh to eighth not really competeing with the top guys as a soph to winning two titles , I would say they developed him. They have developed the talent at 141(maybe not to aa standards), but Skelly is far improved from where he was two years ago, and if he is the 41 for big tens I expect him to qualify. But with wrestling there are many problems that can come into play(Injuries, school, bad luck, many others) that can hinder a season, I'm sure as a coach you have had this happen. But if you take in to account the last four years at 125-133-141 they have had 3NC, 4aa, and 8nQ. I would say that is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Dubuque didn't qualify as a freshman because of an injury. He didn't even wrestle at the Big 10s. He came into college as a senior national champ, so he was as good as Tsirtsis in high school. I would say Zalesky didn't help Tsirtsis very much by having him wrestle as a true freshman, but the very least he did qualify for nationals as a freshman. He wasn't expected to be a national champ right out of the gate, but expected to contend as a senior, as he is now. You can say those stats are for any weight classes you want because they have absolutely ZERO qualifiers at 141, zero, nilch, none, nada. It doesn't take an All-American caliber wrestler to qualify for nationals when the top 7 go in the Big 10. It takes being the 7th best out of 11 teams, meaning winning one match with the right draw. Four straight years of not qualifying a weight class means something is not good in the room. I can see a couple years in a row because of youth or bad luck, but not four straight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulator130 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 They qualified 141 in 2005 with Simpson but he was injured at big tens. Unless your counting this year there has been more then zero in the last four big ten tournaments. Im sure every non top 5 team goes through droughts at the some weight classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well they wouldn't have qualified the weight if he didn't transfer in, he wasn't a product developed by IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbp Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This post just shows you know nothing about IU wrestling Pat placed third at Ncaa's and is a very nice guy along with bein a great coach. Maximus left IU to go to grad school in Oklahoma, the reason he left was based on academics. This happens quite often when people graduate in four years but play athletics for five, one such example Scott Moore transfered from Penn State to Virginia the year he placed third. Also super freshman ramos lost to another freshman in the IU wrestle offs so maybe he realized making the team in the next couple years would be difficult with kinser at 157 and the other frosh in the room at 149/157. Im not in the room but watching the wrestle off, the match between Cameron and Powless was won off a last second td, with that match it is impossible to tell who wins in the room, possibly Cameron gets the better of him in the room. Im sure the coaches who have nine all-american performances amoung them know more about how to arrange the team then you. I would say 3 ncaa titles in four years the coaches are doing pretty good. This year is going pretty rough, but my guess is they will turn the corner for big ten's and ncaas. I walked on to IU my freshman year but was on an academic ride and didn't have time for all the prep that goes into wrestling in the big 10-that was a long time ago-Joe D was the BEST high school sr. in the nation as was Angel-I also coached for along time and I know going into a dual like this you put your best against their best -put Powless at 184 -where he belongs and I guarantee you he does not get turned 5 times -then wrestle Kuhn against Steadman -the 9th ranked 197 in the big 10-and IU wins -Goldman was a champion at 198 or 190 -whatever the weight was back in the day -but he is also the only 4 time finalist to win just once . Konz beats Ramos ? Who cares -Ramos is all hype -I'd trade Konz and Ramos for that freshman who went to Purdue -how do you explain Andre's last 2 years -last year they said he cut too much -this year he is too small for 141 ? As for Coughlin -AA as a freshman -then 2 and barbeque -this year he won't wrestle another match . How do YOU explain him losing to Harper College or EMU or a true freshman 149 lber -Schuster fron Kent State ? Shuster wrestled up a weight and beat Matt at the CSU open . And Harper is a community college -I am in a fantasy wrestling league and picked Coughlin as my super sleeper -I wish he'd wake up . 16-7 -oh , by the way ,Matt was the #1 ranked 160 lber coming out of Mater dei-in the nation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If you won't say it I will -Goldman sucks -Degain is a joke and Mena can work only with small guys -i have heard that the super freshman -Ramos- has asked to leave -Minton left -and when was the last time you ever heard of a senior leaving his senior year -Max Dean -Goldman recently reached 20 wins -how many were against ranked foes ? They roll into National duals unbetaten and go 2-0-then tie a Penn State team who had a hurt 49 lber , a reserve 141 wrestling 57 and Vallimont wrestled up a class and they tie ? Esco should have had the surgery -he won't AA this year -IU has 3 wrestlers who have any heart or desire left -Kinser ,Young ,and Powless -Powless should be a 74 lber -it is almost funny -he kicks Fagiano off the team and makes Everhart go heavy -Now they have an overweight 174 -listed as an 84 as the starting 197 -Everhart tries but 50-60 pounds a match is too much-Cameron embarassed himself -getting turned by a 6-6 kid 5 times with the same move . I hope IU loses every match , then maybe they'll realize that after 13 years there will be no ''rebuilding''. Only more of the same -have the AD schedule a bunch of 3rd rate schools then go 2-6 or 3-5 at best in the big 10. Well herb, I know we have talked before, but you surely do sound like an idiot in that post. Max did, indeed, leave to go to graduate school. He is a very, very smart, hardworking guy. Kurt has only been "riding" the bench because he is recovering from funk and/or injuries. He will be back in the lineup when ready/healthy. DeGain certainly is no joke. He is a very good wrestler and a very good coach. You must not know him, apparently. I will agree that several kids have underachieved at IU, however. Vallimont didn't really wrestle up a weight because he is sticking it out at 165 for the rest of the year. The bottom line is that 165 is his weight. I will give it to you that Powless should be varsity 174. Escbodedo didn't have surgery because he was an Olympic hopeful. Fagiano was kicked off the team for substance abuse policy. Duane wanted to keep him. It was a decision that ultimately came down to administration wanting to set an example. Just get your facts straight before you go knocking people you don't know and/or teenagers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbp Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have written to the IU dept . spokesperson and they give out no info-DeGain was a good heavy -don't know the man -but why are Andre and Matt -2 former AA's -literally a joke in our fantasy league ? I drafted both Andre and Matt -I thought Andre was a sure AA as he wouldn't have to make the cut to 33 -our last conversation you told me Pelton left to go live with his parents -he is at Notre Dame College -an NAIA school and has one loss -you can go to flo video and watch him stick Redman from Purdue -the person above stated I couldn't put a line up together -I know Powless would have been at 84 and Kuhn at 97 -Steadmen is the worse 197 in the big 10 and the PSU kid at 84 was 6-6 -Powless beats him and Kuhn beats Steadman and IU wins -I know why Angel didn't have the surgery and I disagree with it -I just had to have my shoulder replaced because I didn't deal with the injury in a timely manner -Angel will be in his early 20's next Olympics-he should have had the surgery -came back at 100% and then worried about the Olympics in 4 years - Will these problems work themselves out next year ? Will they have to wrestle Ortega's brother -a true freshman at 41 ? Where does Coughlin fit in ? who is at 84 ? I have been defending IU wrestling on college boards for years and it gets a little lonely -where are all of you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 To me (and likely many of us) it doesn't sound like you are defending IU in any way, shape, or form. your shoulder problems have nothing to do with angel's decision to look at an Olympic birth. IMO Viterisi will be at 141 next year. He is learning a lot in his freshman campaign at IU and will be solid. He went a few rounds further than Orgeta in Fargo. At any rate, they are both solid. Nobody really cares about your fantasy league. I'd be more concerned with the well-being of the student-athletes. It is my hope that Dre puts it together come tournament time. I believe he will. Matt is just getting beat by a better wrestler at the time. If it just so happens that an AA is "riding the pine," then so be it. Do you expect Goldman to bench the better wrestler just because of past results? Ha, you likely would, but he isn't thaaat bad of a coach. And Pelton did move home to be with his family. His current college is now merely an hour and a half from his hometown. He just wanted to be closer to home. That's the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I was the one that wrote the thread title that u quoted. My initial question (at least to me) was legitimate. My thought as to Andre and Matt is THEY should be the best wrestlers at there respective weights and why that hasn't happened. I'm still confused after (to my knowlege) why Matt didn't get the nod over Becker when he beat him heads up in a wrestle off. It seems like he was never quite the same after that. I'm not close to the program and never have been. I'm just curious as an Indiana fan why two of Indiana's best are "riding the pine" at this stage in there quickly diminishing college wrestling lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well I am not going to make excuses. I am the one that officiated the Coughlin-Becker and the Young-Becker matches. Becker only won 1 "wrestle-off" in college. IU's wrestle-offs aren't for a varsity position. They are an opportunity for the guys to get within 5-7 pounds of their weight and an opportunity for the fans to join and see what is going on with the program. Young pinned Becker last year. Coughlin lost to Kinser as well. How come Young and Kinser weren't varsity last year? You have to understand that these aren't like college wrestle-offs. Plus at the time I officiated the matches I wasn't even an NCAA official yet, so there really wasn't any legitimacy to it. Becker was the better wrestler and that's why he was varsity. I think he proved that by being a 3-time AA at stacked weights. And sometimes your high school dominance doesn't transfer over to college. This is the case with my wrestlers around the country besides Matt and Dre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I don't think any one should make excuses, the program at IU has been in dismay for umteen years.The reprieve has been Joe D. and Angel E. winning the big one, but the facts are most(85%) of the wrestlers that enter the program either regress or stay the same by graduation. Don't get me wrong I'm not calling for Goldmans head here, just stating the obvious.At this point in time any wrestling tradition IU had has long passed us to the point of who would really consider this job? You might say oh there are plenty of guys that would jump at the opportunity, yea but , these same coaches could make the situation worse.High profile established winners are not going to beat down the IU ad's door to apply for the job. So here we sit, get the second or third echelon recruits and hope for the best,AAing is great. I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbp Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 To me (and likely many of us) it doesn't sound like you are defending IU in any way, shape, or form. your shoulder problems have nothing to do with angel's decision to look at an Olympic birth. IMO Viterisi will be at 141 next year. He is learning a lot in his freshman campaign at IU and will be solid. He went a few rounds further than Orgeta in Fargo. At any rate, they are both solid. Nobody really cares about your fantasy league. I'd be more concerned with the well-being of the student-athletes. It is my hope that Dre puts it together come tournament time. I believe he will. Matt is just getting beat by a better wrestler at the time. If it just so happens that an AA is "riding the pine," then so be it. Do you expect Goldman to bench the better wrestler just because of past results? Ha, you likely would, but he isn't thaaat bad of a coach. And Pelton did move home to be with his family. His current college is now merely an hour and a half from his hometown. He just wanted to be closer to home. That's the bottom line. You can ask the moderator of this board if I defend IU wrestling or not -you really think Monaco won't be the 141 lber ? I was thinking he or Capezio but Viterisi is tough -Walpole doesn't look like he can hold 49 next year -I mean weight wise -Konz may have to take over -as for Dre -141 in the big 10 is a tough place to get better -his head just seems screwed up -I'd love to see Andre wrestling like he did his freshman and sophomore years -I know Ortega beat Lang for the national high school Jr title -it would be nice for some Indiana kids to do well-Dolly is doing well at UNI and andre could win the big 10 and Ian Hinton got a big win last week . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonly1man Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 who has viterisi wrestled this year? i know he is a redshirt, yet has he competed with any one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Did u really just say Andre could win the Big Ten's? I suppose at this point "could" is the key word. I saw him earlier this year get broken down and chicken winged against Manchester or Wabash College. I can't remember. This is not a knock on either program I mentioned but I expected more outta Dre. On a sidenote Trevor Perry completely gassed against Wabash and IMO would have lost but Goldman literally KICKED him back to the center when he was begging for a lung timeout (and I am not exaggerating one bit about that). The final score was like 13-11 or 12-10 or 11-09. I don't exactly remember but it was VERY close. That type of coaching did impress me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now