BeastMode#31

I have read some good discussion on this topic. Very thought invoking. 
Let me just say this: It appears to me that there is no agreement on whether or not wrestling in Indiana should be classed. Think of it this way, put two kids out on the mat and let them show you who the better wrestler is. No more statistics on the number of wrestlers who qualified for each class. Just let them wrestle. If somebody has the desire to win a state title, they can do it no matter what school they are from. Andrew Howe was one of the best wrestlers to come from Indiana and he went to a small school. Howe is not the only one though, but I'm not going to sit here and list all of the successful wrestlers from small schools (research it yourself). 
One final thought: It also appears to me that there are too many dads on this forum who are squabbling about unsure facts and statistics. Here is a statistic, probably 80% or more of wrestling dads never wrestled in high school. I know that there will be replies saying "What do you mean? I wrestled in high school!" I am not referring to the 20% that wrestled in high school. You know who you are, sitting on this forum complaining about "classed wrestling". Imo, keep it the way it is. Why fix it if it isn't broken? Oh and by the way, guys who bring up statistics listen GOOD, you should know that there is something called an outlier when gathering data. Those outliers are wrestlers who do not fit the statistics that have been gathered. Let those outliers continue to not be limited by statistics and let the best man win. I'm glad I didn't see a statistic and limit how far I went because the statistic said I probably wont make it. 

In looking at Joe's forfeit data -- I noted that there are 79 forfeits coming from one sectional (Southport).  That is far and away more forfeits than any other sectional -- only 2 others are even over 40 (45 Lafayette Jefferson / 48 Twin Lakes).
 
Out of 860 forfeits across the state, that means that nearly 10% of them are from one Sectional.
 
So, I think you could argue that if we want to see the number of forfeits around the state decrease, a possibility would be to form a great inner city youth wrestling program that will prop up the numbers for this area which is clearly lacking the numbers.  Within that sectional, however, Perry Meridian clearly has a great youth program.  Do we really think that classing the individual tournament is going to solve the issues with numbers at that sectional?
 
I do not

It is up to Y2 because the burden of proof lies with those wishing to change the (excellent) status quo

It is up to Y2 because the burden of proof lies with those wishing to change the (excellent) status quo

It is up to Y2 because the burden of proof lies with those wishing to change the (excellent) status quo

I think if you sign up for wrestling you should get a state medal. Every kid deserves one.

Well of course... But one could say at 1A schools kids get more 1 on 1 time from coaches when there is only 4 kids on the team... That would be an advantage too... Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages to each situation... Just like life...

I have soft commitments from 13 wrestlers, just awaiting firm commitments from coaches and wrestlers after they check schedules and such. I will announce the team as we get those.
 
So far we have
 
Main Event
132lbs Chad Red of New Palestine
285lbs Shawn Streck of Merrillville
 
Team Indiana vs. WPIAL
113lbs Geoffrey Davis of Fort Wayne Wayne
120lbs STATE CHAMPION Drew Hildebrandt of Penn
126lbs Gaige Torres of Portage
132lbs Owen Doster of New Haven 
138lbs Evan Eldred of Westfield
145lbs Jordan Vaughn of Franklin Central
152lbs Steven BAM Lawrence of Portage
160lbs Cael McCormick of Yorktown
170lbs STATE CHAMPION Drew Hughes of Lowell
182lbs STATE CHAMPION Blake Rypel of Cathedral
195lbs STATE CHAMPION Jake Kleimola of Lake Central
220lbs Nick Fox of Carmel
285lbs Sean Galligar of Columbus East
 
Coaches
Ed "the animal" Pendoski
Leroy "keeper of the flame" Vega
Chris "Double C" Cooper

As a Mater Dei fan, I have witnessed tremendous battles waged by the Wildcats against the top teams in Indiana.  Like most fans, I’m thrilled when we win and crushed when we lose.  However, I always appreciate great wrestling, and great programs.
 
How do the top programs, year after year, seem to never really have “down” years? 
 
It seems like they have common threads, beginning with the coaches. 
 
Mater Dei annually competes against hall-of-famers Bob Harmon of Castle and Bob Hasseman of Franklin.  It seems like every year we also see the likes of Jim Tonte, Brad Harper and/or Dave Maldonado. So, what do they have in common?  For one, they are old school.  Their athletes are in-shape, hard-nosed and disciplined.  By and large, their personal conduct is outstanding.  Why is that?  I’m guessing because that is what their top-tier coaches demand.
 
For example, Shawn Streck, by all accounts, is a great kid.  By his own words, he engaged in a regrettable action at state.  What did Coach Maldonado do?  Although I can’t read lips or hear his words, if you review the video and watch his reaction, you can bet he was NOT saying “Oh, you are just a kid, it is okay.”  Young Shawn felt what it was like to have his chest poked a few dozen times and have his butt chewed.
 
It seems like the best programs hold their kids to a higher standard.
 
The coaches seem to be in it for their athletes, rather than some sort of ego magnification.  I have watched Bob Hasseman coach at the Mater Dei Classic for 15 years.  At the end of this year’s tournament, I was speaking to a friend when Hasseman approached him.  It took me a few seconds to realize who he was.  Since I view him from the stands, and do not have a particular reason to look at him, it would explain my momentary lack of recognition.  I think what this means, for Bob Hasseman, is that producing state champion wrestlers and teams is more important than Bob Hasseman being the center of attention.
 
When you speak to kids that populate the top programs, you will consistently hear the word “team.”  In Blake Rypel’s post-match interview, he didn’t talk about himself, but about how he was part of a team and how his team helped him.  Imagine that; crediting others for your success…  The concept is:  if my team is better, I am better.  If I put my team first, everything else will work out.
 
There is more than one way to accomplish any task.  If hashtags, burger king crowns, non-stop self-promotion, “I, I, I”, “Me, me, me” and/or emulating professional wrestlers/managers work for you—have at it! 
 
The perennial top teams take a different path.

No I could honestly care less if big or little schools have it "better offr" I just want to help improve the sport and get more kids participating... And the data shows at the end of the day class wrestling doesn't accomplish this task...

Y2, I am not saying that at all about those wrestlers so please don't put words in my mouth. At a small school, our program is growing but it is centered around a class, it will have many more peaks and valleys than a larger school thru out the years. We are strengthening our schedule little by little but not everyone on our team can compete at that high level. We are very young and if we continue to develop on the mat, stay together and hungry, I like our chances. We have wrestlers that compete outside our state and we will continue to support them in their effort. Not all can afford to travel outside our state to hit national tournaments and our club doesn't have enough financial support to offset some of those costs. Mine personally wrestled in Pa, Ohio, Ky, Illinois, Michigan and Va Beach and have been to "big time camps". We will compete and we will have more state qualifiers in the near future so hopefully our program continues to flourish.
 
I think the class team state is great, I am really excited to compete in it. If we are lucky enough to place top 2 or 3, I think we will add several young athletes into our fold. Our future is bright as we are moving in the right direction.

No the Forfeit data actually showed states with classed wrestling have about 1 more FF per team than we do in our single class system... There was another thread a while ago with all the data in it but classing actually hurt the overall participation rates...

No they are doing it their own way... And like we discussed before actually have a worse FF % than we do here in our "horrible" single class system... So the classed system didn't in any way help participation % which is the whole idea of classing the sport... Yeah it helped the little schools but hurt the big schools and at the end of the day did more damage than good... So i see no point in shifting the pain from small schools to big schools just to cause even more harm to the sport in general...

Y2, we had a pep session and paraded our qualifier thru the halls this year with the band playing and all for his departure. We hope that it draws more interest in our sport, we hope having the opportunity to compete in the IHSWCA State duals adds to that interest as well. I just want mine to compete against everybody, one class, best of the best, that's me. I want our sport to grow, believe me. I beg kids to try it at the Jr high level, even while my oldest was at New Castle, bball was always king. I have been involved in wrestling since I was 12 years old minus a few years in my early 20s. I even officiated a couple of years to give back to the sport I love. Wrestling needs more love on a national level, TV exposure on channels like ESPN, it needs to be more fan friendly, college riding time can be confusing to a novice fan and the international styles are even worse. If you have to watch video to determine a winner, how can a novice fan keep up?
 
Football is on fire, fan interest is at an all time high thus driving the interest up even at the local levels. Football has been classed most of my life so I know no different. I do realize a large school will stand a better chance of building a 6'4" 300lb line easier than a small school and have multiple athletes that run 4.5 40's. We would be lucky to produce one a decade, but you don't have to be an outstanding athlete to be a great wrestler.

And thats why we can all agree the "Team State" portion should be classed...  The individual portion should be left alone...

They won't let us.
 
You fell off topic, again.

Here is the cliff notes version since you must be new to the conversation. I have coached at a small school and a big school, they are worlds apart in many facets of athletics. On top of that I believe wrestling would grow at the small school level where it looks to be dying.
 
We've had this discussion before, so no cliff notes version needed. Wrestling is an individual sport, something the IHSAA has agreed upon. In many facets, I agree that small schools and big schools vary, just the sheer numbers game alone sets that apart. I mean a school of 1500+ students should definitely be able to field a squad of 14 wrestlers but a student body of say 400 students, some of the kids that might be wrestlers at your school are now basketball players. So classing wrestling will not bring that basketball player over to wrestling. The sport is tough, practices are tough. You are gonna have an easier time finding 14 kids out if 1500 that can withstand those conditions, a school of 400 may not. So therefore do I soften practice to get 14 kids of different weight to fill a full team. Not gonna happen for my team. I would rather have 8 that will withstand those conditions and compete hard no matter who is in front of us.
 
States with classes wrestling are battling the same issues we are. The sport is losing numbers period. Country wide not just Indiana. If class is the cure all to better sports then once basketball classed we would have seen a rise in attendance not less, our state would be producing even more NBA players. If a kid is really good at wrestling will he leave a small school, AKA transfer? I would likely send mine elsewhere and not keep him at a small school. it happens in basketball now. I just don't believe that classing the sport is the cure all.

You encourage freedom of expression, correct?
 
You give jabs left and right. You're a tough young man, I'm sure you can take them as well.
 
We all appreciate the hard work you put into this website, that's not in question whatsoever.

But that's how a dictatorship works, silly.

Silly facts.

Gibson Southern is more like 700. No where near 1700.

Never once did I say he came from a small school I said "from a po-dunk school in the middle of a corn field," which Gibson Southern very much so is.
I will make you a deal Y2! I will ardently support class wrestling in every way possible if you agree to step down as a moderator! Deal?

I'll remove myself as a moderator and then we won't get any articles, brackets, profile updates, rankings, etc.
 
Sounds like a plan!

Give it a rest Y2

Well Y2CJ41. You hit me pretty hard abot my observations on region SS and state finalists I'll let you count the number is FW SS guys in finals vs Region. But........well........I told ya so. Don't forget. You started this thread