WaltHarris

An awesome man.  Did not hear he had passed away.  Very sad.  Had Bob been ill?

We really need to come up with a way to fill our national teams. Heck.... we can't even fill our schoolboy team and the tournament is right here in Indy. The forfeits at the national level have to be a top priority for the powers to be. We can't wait until freestyle state to get these teams aligned. I would like to see some sort of freestyle and Greco camp or qualifier after high school state. This will allow us to get these teams full when everybody is still knee deep in the sport. The way I see it it, three things need to happen.

1. Rework the two tournament rule (make exceptions for our national team members and include rtc's as a way to qualify).

2. Pick teams earlier and hold workouts for the teams. I hate the crash course camps that we have now. Doing a three day camp and then wrestling 4 days at the national level is too much. The kids are dead in the last days. We do need to allow alternates. Getting all the matches at this level for 4 days is too much. All the top teams bring extra kids. As a team leader in the past, I would try to get kids to wrestle both styles. Heck.. My own son has done it. As I look back, I would not recommend a kid to do all matches over the four days.

3. Figure out a way to make the trip cheaper.

I like many of your suggestions on other topics, however I disagree on part of this one.  I don't care for there being a camp/qualifier right after high school state.  HS kids are at their most banged up right after HS state.  But I get where you are coming from.  I guess I still like earning a Fargo spot by placement at FS state because it rewards kids who truly make the commitment.  The two tournament qualifier has clearly hurt the number of kids who will make that commitment although.  If we ever go to a different system in Indiana of qualifying for Fargo, I would really suggest we put together three separate (but equal) teams: North, Central and South.  For example, that way the kids in the far south could practice together and build a culture together.  We can't get everyone to Indy all the time.  And a one-stop qualifier in Indy will evaporate the remaining north and south kids still doing FS.  Having a north and central and south team might also give the ISWA a list of committed kids to hand pick from for Cadet and Junior Duals.

Hope some youngsters take advantage of this opportunity.  It's a great tournament.  Can't believe we have this many open spots.

Have we ever had it before during moratorium week?  I don't recall this happening in the past but maybe it did.

If I recall from the video I saw, there were a few people holding guns when the groups were confronting each other. At least cooler heads prevailed in that issue.

Wow.  There were actually multiple people with guns out, not just the body guard?  I've dealt with a lot of crazy wrestling parents, fans and kids over the years, but nothing like that.  

Grecoref, would love to hear your stories about Russia. 

Here is the article about the body guard pulling a gun on the mat with pictures included:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3599699/Moment-teenage-Russian-wrestler-s-bodyguard-waves-gun-victor-just-defeated-match-Stary-Oskol.html

I believe the cadet and schoolboy teams are based upon order of finish at state.  This year with cadet duals being the same week as disney duals, probably will have a tough situation. 

I would simply reiterate: for some in the Indiana wrestling community, the ends can always be rationalized to justify the means.

I'm sure most of the kids that want to go and win a national title don't care about moratorium week.

Brilliant response. Must have taken .05 seconds to come up with such depth of insight.

Comes back to what we've been discussing the last several weeks.  There are ISWA rules, but those rules only seem to matter and apply to certain people at certain times.  For others, the rules don't apply.

There are IHSAA rules, but those rules only seem to matter and apply to certain people at certain times.

We need to start asking ourselves what we are teaching these kids.  We have zero-tolerance policies where these kids are kicked off the team for school rules infractions, but when the wrestling community goes around the rules, the end ALWAYS justifies the means.

Why would we put Team Indiana camp during the ihsaa moratorium dates?  That makes little sense to have it july 8-10 and defeats the purpose.  Yes, I know 'others' who are not high school coaches can coach the kids.  But at least give these kids the moratorium week.

Did the numbers increase or decrease from last year according to Track?

There seems to be a great deal of consensus that ISWA folkstyle state for juniors/cadets is unnecessary.  Perhaps, redundant.  I know ISWA really would like to keep those junior and cadet entry fees at folkstyle state.  But if they truly want to display a commitment to fs/gr, then eliminate junior/cadet folk state, which would add another weekend opportunity into the fs/gr calendar for tournaments.

Btw, wasn't Center Grove's freestyle tournament cancelled due to low registration and the few entries sent over to Perry's fs tournament?  If we have this large glut of youth in Indy who desired a qualifying tournament, why did they not take advantage of Center Grove's event?  I apologize.  Maybe I am just not that smart.  But I don't understand why we had to cancel a well publicized Indy tournament at Center Grove and then subsequently had to manufacture another event at Warren that no one knew about.

LOL..I fully expected this to say Congratulations to PM on winning the Inaugural Indy Metro National Freestyle Tri Dual ISWA Qualifier at Warren Central.

Lol!

My recollection was both Carmel and Penn duals were advertised in the book and on the web.  Any team could register a roster for Carmel and Penn if they contacted the tournament director and paid the fee.  It was open to all if you signed up your team early enough.  At least from my view, both events were not invitationals.  The Penn duals were on Track, but Carmel wasn't.  Most importantly, there was zero mystery around Carmel and Penn duals.  Everyone was well aware of both events as a qualifier.

Personally, I don't want anyone to boycott fs state.  But I get all the frustration because people who followed the rules are once again feeling undercut.  I said it last year and I will say it this again year.  This just comes down to basic fairness. Going around the rules creates inequality and that only fuels the exact negativity we all would like to avoid.  

I really wish to be fair to the ISWA about this, but I am having a challenging time understanding.  Historically, ISWA hasn't had invitationals.  All local tournaments have been open.  One might limit the number of registrants or limit the number of teams.  But anyone who registered early enough and paid the fee could enter.  Maybe someone can correct if I am wrong, but I cannot recall a previous instance going back to the 1980s where ISWA offered a local event that was not open to all and made the info public beforehand.  

Was the Warren event listed on Track and can others view the matches and entrants?  I ask not to be mean, but to simply show that anyone can see the other iswa tournaments and duals for this spring on Track.  

If you do not notify the public about a qualifier, how can it possibly be a qualifier?    Everyone should have an equal opportunity to qualify. 

Imagine if United World Wrestling published to everyone the only two Olympic qualifiers remaining were Mongolia and Turkey.    But then without public notice UWW held a privately approved secret qualifier in Las Vegas only for Mexico, Canada and USA.    The rest of the world would go ballistic.    And rightfully so.  

A qualifying event would have four non-negotiable elements:

1. A weigh in

2. Skin checks

3. USAW licensed official 

4. Information readily available with plenty of advance public notice on iswa.com or the iswa annual booklet on time/location/registration

Every qualifying event thus far I know of had these four required elements.  A person can debate whether or not other elements might be required like age divisions, pairing clerks, gym or wrestling room.  But these four elements must be present.

I would argue if the four elements are not present, then it cannot be a qualifying event.  

Just an opinion, but I don’t feel comfortable with the sand shifting under our feet.    These ‘opportunities’ seem contrived and could create inequity.   I don’t want to be mean to ISWA, just want to make a point.

Example from back when I was teaching.  I tell kids months beforehand a term paper is due May 7.   No one is allowed to use web resources.    Then in the last weeks leading up to the May 7 due date, a couple students privately tell me they are having a hard time completing the paper, so can they use the web?  I give the kids permission to use web.    But I don’t announce that it’s now okay to use the web to the class.  

I think some other students and parents would be upset about that because they put in a lot of extra work. 

Way too much obsession with this.  What is the big deal with the Gorillas wrestling?  Honestly, every picture posted of the Gorillas shows kids with huge smiles. 

Our society is just too obsessive about things people want to be exclusive.  Must get into Harvard not for education but because it’s exclusive.  Must stay at the Plaza in NY not because it's comfortable but because it’s exclusive.  Must be on the gold team not for the experience but because it excludes those ‘others.’

Yeah, let’s keep that riff-raff out of Harvard or the Plaza or the gold team.

Holy molely, are we so obsessed with exclusivity that kids’ happiness takes a back seat? (see photos of the Gorillas being happy)  Not everything needs to be Super32 or Fargo or Olympics.  Sometimes it is just nice to have an event where kids smile and have fun that isn’t a local tournament.

If we wanted to go to a system where the OTT champ/national champ wasn't automatically our rep, I don't see any way we could do it except by way of a selection jury of some sort.  Even if your point system is perfectly crafted, what do you do if your best guy is injured for 8 months of your 10-month qualifying period?  That's just one of a bazillion scenarios.  I wouldn't be strongly opposed to a selection jury who would put forth clear criteria that encouraged as much international and domestic competition as possible for assessment to take place.  But a point system would have even more snags and scenarios than the system we already have, in my opinion.

Yeah, you are probably right.

Nobody is picking a champion, just a team member. Why not put the guy who has the best chance of winning on the mat?

Well said.  Particularly for well-established wrestlers heading into their late 20s or 30s where excessive wear/tear inflicts needless injuries.

I've talked to a number of folks over the years about the points-over-series protocol.  Like Y2, I too have pondered the if "The One Day Wonder" is really the best method.  Let's say Burroughs had the flu this weekend; USAW wouldn't have tolerated allowing another to grab his spot due to illness or injury imop.  So it seems like the one day champ could really be overturned anyway given a specific set of circumstances.

The points-series model is nice.  Provides some additional protection.  But the rules would need to be crafted very carefully.  Otherwise, a wrestler who consistently finishes in 3rd place at tournaments over the series, but never actually wins a single tournament, could end up as the Olympic representative due to obtaining the most points.  

I think there will be a great deal of discussion for years to come regarding Dake vs. Cox third match.

Just consider it from the Cornell coach's perspective.  You have Garrett lose to Ramos on a caution+1 for fleeing in the closing seconds.  Then you have Dake lose to Cox who doesn't get called for fleeing in the closing seconds. 

That is quite tough to explain to your wrestlers, present and future.  As a coach, you are basically being put in the position to say, "Guys, we really don't know what the officials will or will not call."  

Said it before... and will stay it again.  Half the hs/college season should be FS, the other half should be folk.

What team's are at Penn's dual at Notre Dame?