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aoberlin

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Posts posted by aoberlin

  1. 12 minutes ago, Coach Mikesell said:

    Since those guys sit in on the seeding meetings and usually hang around the coaches in their area, if they want "smack talkers"  I am sure they can point them in the right direction.  

     

    Mooresville Regional: Not necessarily smack talkers but the list of coaches who have had success and have been around for a while with lots of contacts and information you could include would be several: 

    Darrick Snyder, Maurice Swain, Josh Curry, Alex Johns, Anthony Meister, Brett Nabb.  

     

    That regional also has two coaches that influence the area that are not on a high school staff but could add insight to the toughness of the regional:

    Chad Red and Sean Schmaltz.  

    Let me rephrase. They absolutely know who is who in Indiana wrestling and are looking to generate a conversation around it. The names you just dropped I am guessing are in their DMs somewhere. 

  2. 1 hour ago, Coach Mikesell said:

    The coaches association has Regional Reps for each regional.  Maybe start with those coaches and then they can direct you guys to the coaches from their perspective regional that have had success and are wired in with pertinent information.  

    How does that generate conversation? I am assuming they want some smack talkers.

  3. 22 hours ago, Galagore said:

    Additionally, everyone might say that it is an individual decision is correct. My initial argument is from the perspective of the person running the program. Should I just insist that the wrestlers keep grinding all spring and fall and say who cares what that means to the other sports teams? What if the other coaches did that to wrestling?

    You make really good points, and you aren't wrong. Coming from a big school, the mindset of the coaches is to get the athletes to focus almost solely on their sport. The baseball coach doesn't care to have their player wrestle.  In a small school, there is a good chance you are friends with all the coaches and know them by name when you see them. I would imagine you have talks about each of the athletes and the their strengths and weaknesses. You share the athlete. I don't think that happens at big schools too much so there are some advantages you have if the kids do multiple sports. Not saying it wouldn't be better if they totally focused on wrestling but at least there is that. I also truly believe that, for the bigger boys, wrestling is a huge asset to football. I think if you are 165ish and above and your main sport is football but you still get some offseason and mat time when you can you can still be very successful. I do hear you when you say even your mid weights and smaller wrestlers play football, since it is a small school, so that can be tough, but it can also make them tougher. One of my best wrestlers is football first and wrestling second and I am okay with that. Currently, he is one of a few of my wrestlers with a real competitor mindset but he has been that way since sharks in minnows as a little kid.

     

    My stance is that either we class the state or we add more qualifiers and have wrestle backs. Our wrestlers deserve more opportunities because of how hard they now have to work now.  I also really do see the advantage of classing for a small school and helping drive the numbers up. One of the reasons I would like to coach at a smaller school would be to get invited to Team State and be a part of that. Doing that at a 4A school while you are still trying to build a culture is a challenge. So don't get me wrong I don't disagree with you. I will keep saying it's not rainbow and butterflies in big school land. We all have battles we are fighting. Keep up the good fight.

     

     

     

  4. 1 minute ago, Galagore said:

     

    Do you think your logic holds for team sports as well, or only individual sports?

    No it doesn't hold on a team sport that well. Wrestling is weird I will admit you need a good partner or coach that can wrestle you. In some individual sports, you don't need a teammate. Like running shouldn't require a bunch of other teammates to make you better. Or golf. But having a culture of success would make them better or believe they can do it. Just like being the first one in the family to graduate from college. It is always hardest for the first one to pave the path.

     

    If your question can a small school team sport beat a big school team sport like basketball or football? Not usually. The movie Hoosiers shows that it can be done and it is probably the reason for no wrestleback and no classes.

  5. 7 minutes ago, Galagore said:

    See, this is what I am not doing. I am not insinuating that anyone is not doing their job. I know what my job is. You probably do not care for me to run down the list of things that I do to attempt to cultivate a culture and retain quality practice partners, so I won't do so.

    I'm not bashing you at all. What I am stating is we all struggle with pretty much the same thing and it is very hard to overcome. Getting kids to fully buy-in and creating a good culture that will foster the mindset it takes. Then holding them accountable for it without them quitting. You are obviously very passionate so I would assume you are also a good coach unless you fall on the psycho side which some of us do. I am just saying big schools aren't all they are cracked up to be and we all have our battles.

     

    I am also not saying I have the answers or that I have implemented anything right. Or my post season would be lasting longer instead of sitting in the cheap seats.

  6. 4 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

    Why have so many kids that would have attended a smaller school ended up at Crown Point, Brownsburg, or Center Grove recently? If practice partners, schedule, coaching, and other factors didn't matter they should have stayed at their small schools and been stars.

    Why do people walk away with an expensive car from a dealership when they just went there for a base model and something reliable?

  7. 29 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

    What about 
    Frankton
    Rushville Consolidated
    West Lafayette
    Griffith
    River Forest
    Beech Grove
    Gibson Southern
    Tri-West Hendricks
    Boonville
    Danville Community
    Glenn
    Indian Creek
    South Dearborn
    Corydon Central
    Jimtown
    Silver Creek
    Western Boone
    Lawrenceburg
    Sullivan
    Mishawaka Marian
    Speedway
    Fairfield
    Princeton Community
    South Bend St. Joseph
    Culver Academies
    Woodlan
    Lakeland
    Twin Lakes
    North Montgomery
    Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory
    Illiana Christian
    Knox
    Hammond Bishop Noll
    North Harrison
    Fort Wayne Bishop Luers
    Frankfort
    Mississinewa
    Eastbrook
    Fort Wayne Concordia Lutheran
    Greensburg
    Heritage
    Scottsburg
    Guerin Catholic
    Connersville
    Northwestern
    West Vigo
    Evansville Bosse
    Winchester Community
    West Central
    Cass
    Tri-Central
    Wes-Del
    Wheeler
    Lake Station Edison
    Cloverdale
    North Posey
    Northeastern
    South Vermillion
    Triton Central
    Madison Grant
    North Vermillion
    LaVille
    Northfield
    Greencastle
    Salem
    Manchester
    Parke Heritage
    Tri
    Tri-County
    Hagerstown
    Monroe Central
    Union City
    Fountain Central
    North White
    Boone Grove
    Brown County
    South Spencer
    Triton
    Clinton Prairie
    Forest Park
    Sheridan
    Southern Wells
    Churubusco
    Eastern (Greentown)
    Hebron
    Frontier
    Clinton Central
    Providence Cristo Rey
    Caston
    Pioneer
    Bremen
    Whitko
    Fremont
    Providence
    Elwood Community
    Pike Central
    Tecumseh
    Wabash
    Indiana School for the Deaf
    Purdue Polytechnic - Broad Ripple
    Daleville
    Riverton Parke
    North Newton
    Indianapolis Scecina Memorial
    North Judson-San Pierre
    Paoli
    Southwood
    Cambridge City Lincoln
    Carroll (Flora)
    Eastern (Pekin)
    Whiting
    Covington
    Clarksville
    Taylor
    What advantages do these places have? Naming 4 schools out of 200 is great, but they are the exceptions, not the norm.

    I named 4 in my local area that I compete against on the regular. I don't know much about the rest of the list you just copied and pasted.

     

    This simple answer is they don't have a wrestling culture at the moment. It's not easy to build and sustain. Most of these schools you will see flare up once in a while when a group of parents or a parent has been riding their group of kids since they were youth wrestlers. Once those kids graduate they fade back away. Those are just facts.

  8. 1 minute ago, Galagore said:

     

    In no way am I questioning anyone's effort. If any of my posts indicate that I am, please direct me to them so I can review what I have written.

     

    Are you saying any wrestler who puts in the appropriate time and effort in the off season has an equal shot at state tournament success regardless of school size?

    Absolutely not. There are way more factors than that. What I am saying is that it can be done at a small school and it is done at small schools. Yes, your wrestlers need good practice partners. It is your job as a coach to recruit those partners and build relationships with them and their parents to get them to fully buy-in.

     

    After working for years to build numbers and make a sport cool in a place where it isn't.  Here is where I currently stand. Numbers aren't everything and can be a bad thing if you don't have enough coaching staff and you aren't able to separate them into different practices. We had 50 wrestlers this year. I would much rather a smaller group of dedicated wrestlers than a bunch of kids that are trying the sport out and most of them will quit before they are seniors.  I have made that clear with my team and parents so we will see how many we get next year. 

     

    I just don't see this as a sport you can be halfway in. Like I tell my wrestlers it is like not fully committing to a backflip. You are going to land on your head.

  9. 14 minutes ago, Galagore said:

     

    So...if a wrestler is working hard enough and is giving it enough of his or her off season time, then that wrestler has an equal shot to get to the podium, regardless of school size? Then why are there so many more large school wrestlers earning medals at state? Are large school kids just all out working the small school kids?

     

    My whole argument is not wanting divisions so kids can play other sports, but that is a big pillar. And I am not sure about where you are, but in most small schools and for most kids, wrestling is the "other" sport. Therefore, it is prudent of me to respect their space, so they will respect my space.

    I can tell you this much I coach at a big school and I have been the head coach for 4 years and I have yet to get a qualifier or placer.  It definitely hasn't been from a lack of effort on my part and the amount of opportunities that my wrestlers have.  I am biased but I think our technique and approach are spot on, but obviously that part is subjective and maybe it is me.

  10. 1 hour ago, Galagore said:

     

    What are the benefits for an individual who attends a small school and wants to maximize wrestling success?

    If the high school has a wrestling culture then there are a ton of advantages. Take Bellmont, Adams Central, Garrett, and Prairie Heights for instance. None of them have issues with their numbers. I think Prairie Heights and Garrett had like 50 kids this year. On top of that, I am from Eastside High School and I know how small communities work. Most of the time you will have the same last names flowing through the school so you have a generational culture of wrestling that is huge also. Having a parent who wrestled is a big deal when the going gets tough.  The reason I started wrestling is because it was the cool thing to do at Eastside in the 80's and early 90's. You don't need a room full of hammers for your wrestlers to have success. I will say you need 2 or 3 around the same weight that can push each other. Throw on top of the mindset challenges that certain demographics have or don't have that is another factor. 

     

    I didn't read the whole thread but I think someone touched on it already. Here is the bottom line now for any of us. If you want your wrestler to reach the podium in Indiana you need to have an all-in wrestler that is willing to wrestle year-round with only a little bit of off time. Times have changed no matter if we like it or not. Yes, there will be some outliers here and there that don't fit this rule. Especially at the upper weights but for the most part, it is what it is.

     

    If you state that you will always share athletes with other sports because it is a small school and you don't want to takeaway from anyone's pool then 110% you are at a huge disadvantage unless your school's number 1 sport is wrestling and other coaches accept that and are okay with them possibly getting injured in a wrestling practice during their season.

     

    If your whole argument is you want divisions so kids can play other sports and still have some success at wrestling then you are correct. But that doesn't make it easier at a big school to have success. That is what you and your school system have chosen.

     

  11. 1 hour ago, Galagore said:

     

    So large schools also worry about not having a baseball team because the wrestlers are all focusing on wrestling instead of baseball (or ____ spring/fall sport)?

     

    My son is an example I can use. He isn't "finding something else they (he) can be doing other than grinding." He is pitching and catching for the baseball team and working hard at it. He will actually be going in a week or two early to start work with the varsity baseball team before his middle school team practices fully begin. It's baseball season, so I owe it to him and the baseball team to allow him to give that season his full attention, just like he was able to give the wrestling season his full attention.

     

    What are some of the benefits of wrestling for a small school?

    It can be even worse at a big school,our baseball team cuts pretty hard and the kids they cut surprise me. If we have an athlete who is good enough to make the baseball team they very very rarely will choose wrestling. Baseball is very popular around here so they are snagging some really really good athletes.   I sometimes let my freshman do both at the end of the season because I know they probably will not make the team and come back to wrestling. I have some of my best wrestlers who love baseball so much that they hardly do any off-season so they can play travel baseball and fall ball to try to make a team they never make. All the way up to their senior year. Our football team requires so much time for athletes to make the team you hardly get to see them in the off-season.

     

    IMO and I have been coaching for a long time and I have put everything I have including all my time and money into trying to turn this area and this big beast of a school around and it all comes down to culture and building that culture. If there is no culture at your school or your area that is very very hard and can sometimes feel impossible. This is why I think it is very important to build the culture up for the whole area. 

     

    When I see the social media posts of firetrucks rolling through the town for State qualifiers or pictures of wrestlers over top of railroad bridges my heart aches for that stuff. This is just my opinion but I think a nice 2A school would be a great place to be coaching but that isn't where my life took me. We won Sectionals 2 years in a row and qualified all 14 to regionals and then had a ton of semi-state qualifiers. I think it made the announcements. (Maybe). 

     

    The bottom line is we all have our challenges for sure. With that said I am not against class wrestling anymore since we can't get wrestlebacks and our kids deserve more opportunities. More quailfiers and wrestlebacks and I will be a happy camper.

     

     

     

  12. 13 minutes ago, Galagore said:

    Everything you are saying is correct...however, at a small school, it is difficult in good conscience to truly push kids to wrestle to get better in the spring. They are busy making sure our baseball, softball, track, and golf teams are as competitive as possible. How would I feel if the baseball coach was leveraging the wrestlers to start tuning their arms up in January? It would p*@# me off. And of course big schools also share athletes. However, if the wrestlers at small schools focus on one sport, the other sports don't do poorly - they cease to exist. Small schools are playing a differnt game. That's why team sports are classed. There is no difference for individual sports. Everyone has to block another individual in football. Everyone has to mark another individual in soccer. You get where I am going here.

    This isn't just a small school problem. It's a kid and what are their goals problem. They will always find something else they can be doing other than grinding if they truly aren't bought in. Not saying small schools don't have challenges because they do. But I will also say they have some benefits. 

  13. 1 minute ago, WrestlingDad1 said:

    Actually after going deep into the rule book I do see it says that with or without an arm it can be called. Was disappointed it was made at the table well after the whistle. Great match decided by that call. Would like to see the rematch.

    Yep. Had a kid lose in the ticket round with that exact position. It was a great match.

  14. 1 hour ago, WrestlingDad1 said:

    Would love to see that Clouser vs Leech rematch. A 2-1 match with an extremely late and controversial scissor call to decide it. Feel like that one could go either way

    Controversial? He scissored his legs over the head. All the referees saw it, including the head referee of the whole event. It was accidentally not called right away. That isn't controversial. 

  15. No.

     

    Are you concerned with coaches continuing to coach their high school wrestlers without giving the kids a break? Or are you worried about high school coaches coaching someone from another school?

     

    For most high school coaches, a forced downtime wouldn't be the end of the world. But right after the IHSAA State Finals is Frosh/Soph State, then USA Folkstyle State, then Freestyle season, and Freestyle State. Then Regionals. Then camps and clinics and team duals. Then, if you are lucky enough, you have a Fargo qualifier. Then more camps and clinics and practices. Then IHPO and possibly another team dual to freshen up and then high school season starts. I'm looking for that "cool down" period somewhere. August is the best hope, but now you need to get ready to compete at IHPO in September, which has turned into an absolute beast of a tournament so you better be in shape.

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