swain358

Center Grove Middle School Central is looking for a Head Coach. We have many teaching positions available as well. If interested contact

Maurice Swain

swainm@centergrove.k12.in.us

Jamie Wingler 

winglerj@centergrove.k12.in.us

All true Coach Snyder. Evansville/Mooresville is brutal. Dominic Brown at 126 lost at regional to the 3rd place finisher Reynolds and drew the eventual State Runner up Schaefer in the ticket round. Mooresville Regional also included the eventual Champion Rioux. So Evansville at 126 had the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishers at state and guess what, Brown holds a victory over the 4th and 6th place finishers at the weight class. Coach Snyder and I talked about the fact that you can very well lose the Team State title at the Regional. 

Wyatt Krejsa bonus pointed everyone in the state leading into the state championship match. Hunter May had a very dominant season as well and held the match to a regular decision 13-6. I'd have to check the stats (it's been a long season) but I think Hunter May landing that headlock in the finals may have been the only offense points given up by Wyatt to an Indiana opponent this season. Wyatt had a hell of a year and put in so much work!!

Anyone get the for sure answer whether or not participating wrestlers need to buy a ticket to sit in the stands while they are not competing? 

Krejsa is more like Kray-sa

I’ve said this for years. Each team gets 16 entries. You can double up in 2 weights. 

We were fortunate enough to get a new room last season. Three mats, two attached locker rooms, cardio area, coaches office, two storage rooms, and an industrial laundry room. 

36 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I don't disagree at all, I just think that it would be harder to get done with a higher likelihood of having a bracket with 17+ kids in it. That would require some protocols in place to prevent that or determine which schools get to enter their extra kid at that weight class.

 

For instance:
1. Coaches needing to volunteer to withdraw a wrestler to get back to 16 in the weight
2. Random "picking" of the teams that get to enter in an extra in that weight
 

It honestly would mean coaches would all need to be looking to help each other at a seeding meeting. That is quite a task to say the least!

Brackets over 16 would mean rounds 1 and 2 are elimination rounds. Right now, we have first round elimination matches at sectionals that have over 8 entrants. In the case of having more than 16 we would need to have 2 rounds of elimination matches if you have that round of 32 match. If not, and you have the round of 16 match, you only have one elimination match. Again, I do not think this will happen that often, but when it does, just make round 1 and 2 elimination rounds. Like I said before, this will make the sectional about one round longer but I think we all would agree that it would be worth it to keep kids wrestling. The amount of tournaments we go to throughout a calendar year and sacrifice time and money for, I would think we all would be willing to sacrifice one more round to give kids an opportunity to compete. Again, this is all pie in the sky thinking as I highly doubt the IHSAA would go for it, but I do think it is a great idea that is being done at the NAIA level that could be considered. IHSAA would have to allow athletes to wrestle 6 matches in one day at the Sectional which I could see being a hard ask. 

Now seeding the tournament would be a whole other can of worms LOL

4 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Allowing 16 total entries would benefit the stronger programs a lot.

 

Having 14 entries with the option of having up to two wrestlers per weight is a good start to get things rolling. Many of the teams with 10 or less kids will have one or two that end up being JV and get very few matches. With them having that ability to dangle the carrot of wrestling at sectional they would be more likely to stick around.

 

Another positive is that there would be a lot less likelihood of having over 16 wrestlers in a bracket at sectional. More than 16 would create chaos that we don't need. There would still need to be protocols as any sectional with 9 or more teams could possibly run into an issue.

 

As far as a coach dropping a starter for someone else at sectional. That is a coaching decision and a part of the job. Other coaches have these types of decisions all of the time. Wrestling is almost too easy in that sense.

 

I have no issues with either scenario having everyone score points. At the NAIA level they have rules in place for when wrestlers from the same team face each other. I believe they do not give bonus points in those matches so a kid doesn't "throw" a match.

 

If I were to guess, the IHSAA would be much more likely to allow up to two entries with a total of 14 than allowing 16 total entries.

Helping the sport and kids as a whole. It will help all programs. Not just the good programs. Would help the sport keep more athletes which is what we all want. It is a win for everyone. 

I would personally say max a team could enter is 2 in a weight class which would mean you could technically fill 8 weight classes with 2 kids if you wanted. But I know the IHSAA would never go for that. Best way to get it to pass though to the IHSAA would be you can only add one extra wrester to two weight classes. So the maximum number of weight classes that you could enter an extra wrestler is two. 

Enter 16 wrestlers but only score 14 at the sectional. From there, your school scores whoever is still alive in the state tournament. Real simple

20 minutes ago, VisionQuest87 said:

I have not really given it much thought on the 2 extra entrants.

However, my initial response to this is:

 

1) More forfeits at the sectional . The only ones that benefit from getting less forfeits are the teams that already fill a full team.   The smaller teams aren't going to have the 2 extra wrestlers, so now the one of 8 kids on the small team might lose to the 2nd wrestler from the bigger school and not even qualify for regionals.

 

2)  Kids continuing to cut large amounts of weight to make their teams varsity line up.  Really does anyone really think this will stop kids from cutting large amounts of weight to make their team's varsity line up. That wrestler does not want to be 2 string at any weight.  Not going to happen.

 

3)  Kids transferring for athletic reasons.  Kids transferring for athletic reasons will always happen even more so than cutting weight to make their teams.

 

4)  Not allowing more kids to compete in our state tournament.  Okay understand this one.  But down side is maybe the smaller schools now have kids getting knocked out of sectionals and more big schools wrestlers at regionals, semi-state, and state.

 

5)  More kids quitting the sport (specifically kids above 200lbs. the football kids that we all say we want to keep in the sport).   I can see this being an upside to the extra wrestlers.  More entries does probably equal more kids staying in the sport.

 

Anyway, just my two cents.  Which by the way aren't even worth a nickel.

 

 

1. We will see more full sectional brackets and that is a good thing.

2. It happens every year, kids cut weight to make the line up. If you think this does not happen then you are wrong. Some kids will still cut weight but that number will go down some. 

3. Less kids will transfer if they know there is a chance that they can still make the sectional roster. We all know it happens, kid sees that they can't make the line up so they transfer. Will some kids still transfer? Yes. But it will lower that number probably. 

4 and 5 are obvious. We need to give kids opportunities to compete. We lose too many good kids because they see the writing on the wall that they will not be able to wrestle varsity/sectional. Other sports have the opportunity to substitute mid game. I see it here at Center Grove all the time. Our football team is a monster and they are very good for many reason. I think one of the reasons is that they keep kids on the team through their senior year even if they are not the starter because they can substitute throughout the game. Being able to keep kids in the program will help every program. Our football team has 30-40 seniors each year. Are they all starters? No, but they eventually can get into the game. Other sports have this advantage over us/wrestling. Again, I coached at a small school so I know how tough it is. Being able to enter a couple more guys into the sectional would have helped when I was at the smaller school as well. Even if the extra entry would not have made it out the sectional, it still would have kept him/her on the team and engaged the entire season. You have to look at it as what is best for the sport, not what is best for a specific group. 

1 minute ago, Galagore said:

 

My post was in response to teams being allowed to enter multiple lineups, not the use 14 wrestlers, even if some are at the same weight scenario. That is one that I have more mixed feelings about and definitely think has some merit, but would need to discuss in a real-time conversation to fully form an opinion on.

 

Generally, though if we have too may forfeits and sectional, allowing the really good teams to wrestle even more wrestlers does not seem like a wise long-term solution.

Entering 2 extra wrestlers would be for every team not just the good teams.

54 minutes ago, Bulldog89 said:

Serious question here, if a school did enter 2 kids at the same weight, they could eventually knock a team mate out of the Sectional?

Potentially yes, that means the better guy that day won. What is wrong with that? Two kids competing against each other to determine the winner at the sectional is better than coach making the decision in my opinion. But after sectional, teammates would not meet in an elimination match during the state tournament. 

So you guys that are against teams being able to enter 2 extra entries are in favor of..

1. More forfeits at the sectional

2. Kids continuing to cut large amounts of weight to make their teams varsity line up.

3. Kids transferring for athletic reasons

4. Not allowing more kids to compete in our state tournament.

5. More kids quitting the sport (specifically kids above 200lbs. the football kids that we all say we want to keep in the sport)

Adding 2 more entrants would help alleviate these issues in wrestling. 

20 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I would be fine with the **gasp** Michigan method of allowing 14 entries and up to two in a weight class. That way sectional is not as big and it's likely no need for an extra round.

 

Reasons I think this would help include:

1. Retention of athletes will be greater if we include as many athletes as possible at the sectional level.

2. Decrease weight cutting or wrestling up at unsafe weights. Many times kids will cut or gain weight when they want to make the lineup, specifically for the state series. This would give coaches/athletes the ability to wrestle at sectional without having kids wrestle up or down at potentially unsafe weight classes.

3. Small schools with smaller rosters will be able to get most or all of their athletes into the sectional line-up. Many times schools even with small rosters will have a couple JV kids that aren't able to get very many matches during the season. This would "throw them a bone" to keep them interested and hopefully retain them.

 

The biggest issue with this is the very low potential of coaches loading up an extra guy in the same weight class. This is not likely to happen, but something that there would need to be a contingency plan for so not to go over 16 physical wrestlers in a weight class.

 

This would also hopefully eliminate the dumb "forfeits" in the brackets that give kids wins during the state series. Almost every state inserts a bye in individual tournaments instead of a lousy forfeit.

I agree with all of your "pros" to allowing multiple entries in one weight class. Adding the two extra entries will really allow coaches to be flexible with Sectional Entries and would definitely decrease the number of athletes cutting too much weight or wrestling a weight where they are extremely under sized. 

Going the 14 entry route with the possibility of multiple in two weights "Michigan" could be problematic for coaches in some situations. Imagine the parent calls/complaints we would get if "Johnny" wrestled in the varsity line up all year at 132 only to not be included in the sectional roster because coach choose to double up at 120 instead. I think that could open up more issues for coaches. Add 2 extra and that goes away and I doubt many sectionals would have many/any weight classes that would exceed 16 participants. Most sectionals have 9-11 teams. That would mean 5 or more teams would all have to pick the same weight to add a wrestler. The odds are not high that would happen consistently. 

I brought this idea up at the coaches clinic a couple years ago. We need to adopt the NAIA model where each team can enter 2 extra guys into the state tournament. That will allow teams that have outstanding varsity 2 guys an opportunity to get them into the state tournament. It would add one extra round to sectional I would assume. I think this will help schools of all sizes. Yes, i’ve coached at a small school so I know the struggles felt there but I do think having multiple entries would help small schools as well. When I coached at a small school, we had back ups that were varsity level but just could not crack the line up. Plus more opportunities for kids to compete at sectional is always a good thing. This will definitely help keeping the football kids in the sport as well. Most football kids over 200 pounds decide not to wrestle once they see the writing on the wall that there are only 2 available spots to make the line up. 

Center Grove is looking to add two dual meets to our schedule. Preferably in the month of January but can also do December. If interested, contact Maurice Swain at swainm@centergrove.k12.in.us 

Mooresville regional is a really tough tournament. 

Bloomington Semi State 

Have coached at both New Castle and Evansville Semi States. New Castle atmosphere is on a totally different level. Fans right on top of the mat, parents jumping over the rails, tiny holding pin area in the tunnel, full gym of fans. Its a great experience. 

Sectional Team Duals

Two pools, cross bracket for the last round. Everyone has wrestled each other or has at least a common opponent. One 2 point weigh in and its basically over. Not many crazy sectional bracket situations anymore. Doing this would also allow you to use the "wins vs sectional field" criteria as the last possible criteria if its needed. Sectionals with more than 10 teams, I would think we could figure out how to handle this situation somehow. 

Should be a requirement that each team in sectional wrestles each other in some type of dual format at some point in the season. Pretty simple but when it's brought up at seeding meetings, people think you are crazy or complaining. 

Sorry, these mats have been sold 

Nick Borta North Montgomery. Unheard of kid who possibly  had a losing record freshmen year (I can’t remember). Made it to semi state that year and had a controversial loss. Senior year finished 6th, giving the eventual state champion his only two losses of the season.