ENoblewrestling

Ok so by this same logic I could use the exaggeration that we need to have a weight class for every pound instead of every 5-10 pounds and this would be just as useful as yours stating that if you want a true champion then we should have one weight class. This is the same argument really just used the opposite way. So you really believe that if everytime this discussion came up I could write that the advantage of being 5 pounds heavier than your opponent is to much so we need a class for each pound would be a useful exagration to show that we dont need class wrestling? You really dont seen how that is a childish example and one that is really just arguing for the sake of arguing, they are the same argument. Also do you really believe that the team aspect is not important to growing the sport in our stae? Why can't we work for both. I mean do you really think that because it would be easier to have five studs that that is a better way to choose our champion than the best team? I believe that a classed team tourny is the most important thing to our sport right now. Why don't we work for this ? I dont see how this would do anything but help our sport.

Y2 here are a few more holes in your argument. 1. The watering down of the tourny- earlier I stated that in a two class system I would have had eight state qualifiers over the last two years. Why would this not be the case? If a kid from a small school can make it to semi-state or in some cases even regionals when taking on superior big school competion, then I would find it a fairly logical assumption that they would be able to make it to state if you cut out the half that they are unable to compete against. In a tournament filled with inferior competion I would. Think that a small school kid who makes it to semi-state now would obviosly be able to make it to state in a classed system. I think that this is a resonable assumption. 2. You state that finding five studs would be easier than finding a team of fourteen studs when asked about the best way to find a team champion. First of that still doesn't answer the intended question of what is the best way to determine a team champion. If you really believe that the team that contains the best individuals is the bewst team then why didn't Griffith ever win the team state competion? I also thought that you want what's best for Indiana wrestling not just Garrett High School. You guys would also be competive in a classed team tournament right away. You almost make it to regionals as is, which despite what you may believe is a great accomplishment. I know we would be happy to win a sectional, not happy that we don't have to wrestle team regionals as you earlier stated your team felt last year. 3. Why didn't you state your feelings about how unimportant a classed team state would be at the IHSWCa meeting? Everyone who was there voted and ageeed that a classed team state was what we wanted. Why didn't you say that you think the old system is better there? Also if we had discussed classing the indivdual tourny I really doubt we would have had 100 percent aggreement like we did on classing the team tournament. 4. The childish argument that if we want a one class tourny to determine a true champion is the same as wanting no weight classes. Using that same logic couldn't I argue to those in favor of class wrestling, why don't we have thousands of weight classes due to the advantage of a wrestlers weight? Isn't it unfair for a 141 lbs. Wrestler to wrestle a 145 lbs wrestler? We need a 141 lbs weight class. Its the same logic as what you use to argue against the one class tournament, and both are obviously ridiculous. Yet you acctually have people on here who back that argument. It makes your side look childish and weak.

This was a topic about the importance of saving team state. I think that we should get back to that topic as I would say it is the most important issue for wrestling in our state at this time

Y2 I agree that is a good thing, and I do see the merit in some of your points on the class system. I just personally dont feel that it is best for the intgerity of the sport. If we class it, all that means is that making it to state is less of an accomplishment. We have had eight state qualifiers in the history of our school. If it were classed I legitly believe that we would have had 8 in the last two seasons, I just dont think that is good for our sport. It makes a great accomplishment become something that goes to just average/ above average wrestlers. I think that advancing four to the semi-state has watered the semi-state down, and has made advancing out of regionals a much less impresive feat. I think that being a "semi-stater" has lost some of its luster. I think that at the semi-state that is exceptable, but not for the state finals, its for the best of the best, that is the point of it. The weight class argument has been used on here before, and I canot see how some buy into this argument. Its the nature of our sport, it obviously needs weight classes this is a bogus argument. Y2 I didn't see an answer to my earlier question- which do you think gives us a better idea of the true team champion a 14 man roster vs another 14 man roster, or the team that can produce the 5 best wrestlers? If its the best 5 wrestlers, then why waist time on the kids who are not ever going to be a state caliber wretler?

Y2 for this topic we will just have to disagree about the indivdual side. On the team side I don't see how you can say that a team with 5 studs is more deserving of a TEAM state title than a team with 14 well rounded wrestlers.

So does finding the best team not matter anymore? If the team side was classed why couldn't a team find some hope from that and rise up from the bottom of the ranks? How is it better to have a situation where only the studs matter? What about the kids that are not good enough to go to state? I just don't see how the continuation of a classed team tourny wouldn't be good for the sport? Even if it only affects sixty teams at least they would be deserving of it. Why should we punish or top teams for being good?

Y2 let's say that no team will ever improve and that the same 15 to 20 teams will be the only teams to ever compete. If this is the situation it is obvious that it won't change unless the team portion is classed. So if we were to ever class it wouldn't you think that a classed team state would be a better way to determine who the best small school is rather than desiding it at a classed individual state? I mean you are always arguing for that you want what is best for Indiana Wrestling, but can you really say that dropping team state is better for our state as a whole? Even if not everyone has a legit chance they still don't using the individual state to deside it. This is in my opinion the most important issue the state has had in the last decade and feel it is something we need to fight to keep.

So I assume that they hired someone. Does anyone know who got it?

Brooks is the Brett Farve of Indiana High School Wrestling. Every year there is a will he wrestle at a region school rumor, or a he isn't going to wrestle this year rumor. He must love the attention he gets each off/ pre season.

I agree in some ways with Yorktown. I think the winner of Belmont and Yorktown will suprise a lot of people at state. I'm predicting Bellmont over YT just based on the fact they didn't loose as much. I still think CP is the team to beat.

Slow day at work. Any how does anyone know when the team rankings will be out? Anyone want to make their own top 5? 1. Crown Point 2. Bellmont 3. Mishawaka 4. Perry Meridian 5. EVMD

Its been a bit slow on here for the season being right around the corner. Anybody got any predictions on teams or indivduals in the Fort?

So who got the job?

Does anyone know why jeff resigned? I was shocked to hear that he did. Jeff really had a lot of love for his program and from all accounts did a good job. I know he didn't have the record that coach kirby did, but he also inherited a team with much less talent. I know that jeff worked really hard as coach, and I was really suprised to hear he stepped down.

I agree, but couldn't yorktown have said the same thing years ago? When I was in school at Norwell we used to beat Yorktown at the ecic, and now they are at the level to compete to go to state every year not every 20 years why can't you? I'm at a small school too and you guys beat us last year, but I don't sit here and say we will never be able to beat you guys, I like to think we could get to your level and more, like Whitko has recently. All I'm saying is that its certainly not impossible for a small school to be right in the mix every year. If you remember whitko had some devistating injuries last year too but overcame it for the sectional despite their size.

Y2 how is it that you have a team that went 20-1 and are not relavant in the team series? You guys have a damn fine team every year and as a fellow coach in you sectional I respect what you guys do. But how is it that you don't feel you have a shot in the team series? Our sectional has been won by Whitko the last two years, Whitko made it the regional finals, and got beat by a great yorktown team. Do you really rhink that you guys, or Whitko could never win that regional? I just don't see why you would have a defeatest attitude about it, your seriously not that far off.

I again want to state that I agree with coach snider 100 percent on this issue. Nothing would be worse for our sport than loosing the team series. If we ever want a classed team state then the loss of the finals we have now would kill that idea. Y2 the difference between the team and individual is just that, the team is fourteen guys, the individual is just one. I know you don't see it the way that most of us do, but the team portion of the tournament is influenced greatly by the size of the school, and the fact that we don't have as good of atheletes. It makes it very hard for a team to compete. The size of the school doesn't affect an indivdual, small schools obviously won't have the number of finalists that big schools have because they are not as good, or deserving of making it to the finals, they do though still have the same oppurtunity which is not true of the team portion. I think that most of us view the two as completly seperate things. If we want to keep things like the team state what we need is a more powerful ihswca, but due to lack of participation by the coaches we look weak. Its no ones fault but our own. I haven't missed a fall or spring meeting since I became a coach, get down there and show our strenght in numbers. Finally and this is just an idea, since the clinic is in Indy, and the Ihsaa is there as well is there anyway we could get Bobby Cox or an ihsaa rep to our meeting to discuss what is going to happen?

Would the new format be the same as the pre team state days, or something different? By the way I agree with coach snider, but feel a classed eam tourny is needed for growth of this event.

I think that a lot of you are overratting your teams abit. I am seeing posts that have several teams around the state getting 5-6 guys to state, no way. It is extremely hard to get that many guys down there. Only 2-4 teams a year get that many kids down there. We're talking about the top 16 in the whole state. Not every wrestler who is "pretty good". even if you have 5-6 guys who are "pretty good", or even 2-3 the chances of getting all of them down there is extremely low do to the randomness and bad draws that occur in the tournament. I would be very suprised if any of the schools reach the number they are predicted to get on this thread.

O.k. there have been a lot of transfer rumors this summer. Welches to CP, those Illini twins to cp, BQ to Carrol, Bratcher to Yorktown, Brooks to CP...etc so now that schools started we should know if they are true or not can anyone give confermation to these rumors or others?

I have no clue what the kids name is, I just saw him wrestle at the New Haven JV meet. He was a big strong kid, honestly I am just assuming he will be varsity based on what I saw there. If he's nlot kit will take a solid wrestler to beat him.

I think a lot of people are sleeping on Bellmont. They were very close with Yorktown by the end of the year, and they only graduated three wrestlers. They are replacing their 215 with a j.v. kid that was really good, I think that the hanger will be rocking come team regionals.

If you go to the DOE site and look at the Atheletic postings you'll see about 100 of them from North Miami, including varsity, Jv, middle school, and elementary wrestling. They also have postings for about every other coaching postion at the school besides head football- the assitant postions are availible though. Anyone know whats going on there?

We had a kid running this in practice all the time. I got on his case and told him to stop just because I figured it had to be illegal, or that it was going to hurt one of his teamates, its a really rough move. I thnk its a good thing its illegal.

I remember you saying that at the spring coaches clinic, and was going to say something about it in my original post. I brought it up as more of a discussable scenario, and because it was the first sport I've seen with two classes.