Galagore

It so should be 

Theron Carrington actually has a loss on his record. Since he was ineligible to be seeded, we didn’t get around to updating 

Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches.

Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches.

Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches.

Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches.

Can't remember exact schools, but there were a couple early in the season where the coach basically told his wrestler "No way, you are just tired. Keep wrestling." This was coming after out of bounds situations where they were able to make eye contact and briefly communicate. Kudos to those coaches.

Regardless of what it does to attendance, I sure hope no one ever makes a decision for children's activities based on what the fans want to see.
 
That being said, why don't people hold the same fondness for ticket round matches with no wrestle-backs? It is way more exciting to watch a single-elimination 16-wrestler bracket determine who goes to state than allowing first round losers to wrestle all the way back to qualify for a spot.

Good deal. Then we can agree to disagree and let those on the fence look over the arguments presented and draw their own conclusions.

You keep mentioning these state champions like they are just everywhere.
 
The thing you fail to realize is that we have approximately 4000 high school wrestlers in this state. Only 14 become state champions, that is .35% if you are good at math. 
 
The people beating the drum of class wrestling don't give a hoot about those 14 kids. Those kids will be successful in the sport no matter what. If we only allow the champs from sectional, regional, and semi-state to advance to state, these guys will likely still win. These guys aren't the ones people are concerned with.
 
What people are concerned with are the 1500ish wrestlers at small schools. What those small school wrestlers represent are people learning the great lessons of the sport. The more people that can participate in wrestling and have a good experience in doing so will be better for everyone. The more kids that participate in athletics at the high school level overall is good for society. Those kids represent the future referees, coaches, wrestling parents, and wrestling fans. If they do not have a good experience in wrestling they will not continue to support the sport and it will die. As shown every year, the forfeits at the small school levels are rising at a steady pace. One of the best ways to help that is to make the playing field level for those athletes. Why would they choose to wrestle when football, basketball, baseball, etc are all classed and they enjoy way more success in those sports? Why work hard, cut weight, get beat up, wear a singlet, etc and have very little success? That's a simple question and I'm sure you'll say something about kids and society being weak, but that's a copout without looking at something as simple as classing the sport.
 
There are 45 other states that have class wrestling, why are we one of the last ones on this boat? It definitely is not making our wrestlers better as we have been hovering in the 10-15 range as a state for 20+ years. Having single class wrestling isn't helping us in participation as we are basically average in the midwest. So at what point do we look at our fancy spotlight and wonder if it is worth it to kill the sport at the small school level?

Those that have never had the struggles of  small school environment will never understand.
If we have class wrestling they don't have the little guys to beat up on. They have to eliminate each other instead.

Small school teams are comprised of individuals who wrestle in a small school environment. It is very difficult to separate the two. Practice partners are one example of the major difference. Not just quality but quantity. At a small school, your appropriately sized practice partner goes down and there is a good chance that you are out of options in or around your weight class for a partner.
 

If you think allowing students to decide whether or not they should pay attention in class is dangerous, then my guess is you and I are not going to have a productive conversation.

No. For the same reason I don't ask my students if they prefer to have to pay attention in class. Doing what the kids want is a step backwards. As adults, we are supposed to do what is best for their development, not what they prefer.

If you think allowing students to decide whether or not they should pay attention in class is dangerous, then my guess is you and I are not going to have a productive conversation.

Regardless of what it does to attendance, I sure hope no one ever makes a decision for children's activities based on what the fans want to see.
 
That being said, why don't people hold the same fondness for ticket round matches with no wrestle-backs? It is way more exciting to watch a single-elimination 16-wrestler bracket determine who goes to state than allowing first round losers to wrestle all the way back to qualify for a spot.

What about this has anything to do with data? Of course it will be easier to get to state if we have two classes. No one is disputing that. @Thor said it best - small schools and small school wrestlers aren't even playing the same game as large schools.

No. For the same reason I don't ask my students if they prefer to have to pay attention in class. Doing what the kids want is a step backwards. As adults, we are supposed to do what is best for their development, not what they prefer.

You literally just said why. Large schools can produce ten times the amount of elite athletes than a small school can. If a small school wrestler has no one to wrestle with, but a Perry Meridian wrestler has three backups that are all state level, how is that NOT an advantage? Jacob Cottey in 2014 literally had both Ngun Uk and D.J. Brookbank as his backups. Cottey was a three-time qualifier and two-time medalist, while Uk and Brookbank both medaled placing sixth and seventh respectively. You think being 3-4 state qualifiers deep on the depth chart isn’t advantageous against a team like West Central or Churubusco?

That is a new and outstanding point in favor of class wrestling. Well done.

That is a new and outstanding point in favor of class wrestling. Well done.

Regardless of what it does to attendance, I sure hope no one ever makes a decision for children's activities based on what the fans want to see.
 
That being said, why don't people hold the same fondness for ticket round matches with no wrestle-backs? It is way more exciting to watch a single-elimination 16-wrestler bracket determine who goes to state than allowing first round losers to wrestle all the way back to qualify for a spot.

Outside the box ideas are great to consider. However, given the history of the IHSAA's approach to all sports' state series, the reality is that they will either do a 2-4 class individual tournament run in a similar format to the one we have now, or they will keep things the same. There is a smaller chance, but still a possibility for us to get sectional-style wrestle backs at every level, but even that is highly unlikely. With the ladies entering the fray in the next year or two, now is the time that we will class, if we ever do. They will make this change across the board in as widely applicable way as possible. This will affect all individual sports not just wrestling. Hypothetically, of course.

The success of the 1A/2A state championship is proof that the depth is there for Indiana because most of the medalists in that tournament were stopped at the semi-state level or were low IHSAA state medalists, yet were still placing ahead of or beating higher medalists or qualifiers in the ISWA state tournaments which means the talent and capabilities are there, but they’re being swallowed at semi-state by so many big schools in a terrible format. That last statement is for anyone who thinks small school wrestlers aren’t good or are weaker. Also, a reminder that, as far as I know, we are the ONLY state in the U.S. with FOUR stages in a state tournament series for wrestling. California has three (Sectional, Masters, State), Illinois has three (Regional, Sectional, State), Michigan, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania three (District, Regional, State), Minnesota has two (Sectional, State), and Ohio has three (Sectional, District, State). So, it is fair to suggest that most of our wrestlers at the Semi-State level are State caliber athletes. 

At this point, small schools aren't even playing the same sport as the big schools. South Adams has to balance putting the work in for wrestling while having nearly every single member of our roster playing three sports, all while wrestling in the cafeteria. Next year we might not have a heavy weight because there's only 3-4 kids in the entire school that I could identify as even being the right weight, not even getting to those kids already playing basketball, or not wanting to wrestle. Brownsburg has a million dollar facility filled with year round wrestlers and all the resources they need, in an area surrounded by other talented big school wrestling programs and big city clubs and about 1000 kids to recruit in the school. But sure, we can just outwork them. 
 
I would love to see South Adams have a state champ at some point in my life, but that is going to be highly unlikely with the current state of wrestling in Indiana. Last year, the state finals looked like a Crown Point-Brownsburg-Center Grove dual meet, and that isn't changing any time soon. Last year the 1A wrestler of the year topped out at 5th place, couldn't even get one 1A wrestler in the semis.