KarlHungus

Per statistics from the NCAA, in fact only 2.6% of HS wrestlers are *PARTICIPATING* at college level.  That's not a scholarship number, that is PARTICIPATING

 

NCAA Participation by Sport

Wrestling is hard

Flush?  I think you might be overstating it a bit. Most smaller schools use their financial aid money to lower the cost of their private school tuition closer to that of the state schools.  It's simple math and how smaller colleges  market themselves.  

 

Let me pose this scenario--Suppose we have a small Indiana college with a wrestling team.  They are competitive, but certainly not at a level of churning out national championships individually or as a team.  Who are they more likely to "recruit:" 

 

Wrestler A with a 3.8 GPA, 1200 SAT, semi-state qualifer

 

Wrestler B with a 3.0 GPA, 1000 SAT, 1X state placer

 

Truthfully, I don't know.  If I had to venture a guess I would say they probably recruit both, but Wrestler A is going to get more of their "flush" financial aid?  For a lot of D3 schools, not all, sports serve as a marketing/recruiting tool for prospective students, and I think small college sports is mutually beneficial to both parties (wrestler and school).

I know both Wabash and Trine have excellent need based FA.  Both are flush with financial aid.

I'm sure you're able to follow the conversation nonetheless.

Sure I can follow it but the more you change the goalposts the less effective your argument becomes.

But it doesn't...

 

 

Is it really THAT important? lol I get your point but you're searching for things here... I would say its the same thing as you guys putting out data for 3 classes yet arguing for a 2 class system...

The data makes sense to many.

It is important if we want to have intelligent discussion.  If someone is changing the goalposts, I tend to disregard their argument.  Who are "you guys"?  I've always been a 3 class guy.  

No, you're wrong.

 

I moved 1A after the 3-time champ and corrected "money's."

 

I'm putting my own comparison out there, not Y2's.

You did it after quoting him.  Your statement after quoting him is understood to be in response to the quote.  Then you used a different analogy in rebuttal.  Like I said, tough to follow when you are not on the same page. 

"Money for college."  I keep hearing this same argument.

 

When did college wrestling programs get flush with cash and become revenue generators for their athletic departments?  

 

Am I missing something?

Most colleges are flush with financial aid money.

But in your humble opinion is this a true indicator of how good said "3-time champ" is on the next level? Because that's what this whole argument is geared towards, the next level, not high school competition.

 

Is the University getting their "money's worth" on a 3-time 1A champion vs. a 2-time place winner on the 3A level? Which wrestler is better? For that matter, which "class" is better? Who is the better investment? How do you compare without like opponents?

The quote you used said 3 time champ vs 1 time placer.  Then you changed it to 3 time champ vs. a 2 time placer.  Hard to follow when you aren't on the same page.

#TheCounty clearly is being shut out by the IndianaMat royalty.  Some deserving kids in black and gold are not getting the publicity they should be getting.  #Conspiracy Theory

Ahhh.  The classic "Let's just have one weight class" response.  I love it.

A straw man in response to a straw man.  Im glad you recognize a poor argument

absolutely not, it was one of, if not the greatest thing for our community, but it was something our community had worked for for 10+ years when Coach Meeks took over the football program. But we are comparing apples to oranges here. Your claim is that more kids will get college exposure and it will help grow the sport if we were to class wrestling. Well, we have three kids from our 2014 State Championship football team that went 15-0. Our senior class from 3 years earlier that went 5-7 also had 3 kids go and play college football. But you can't justify classing wrestling by comparing it to football. A school like Penn who has 150+ kids from grades 9-12 will not be as severely affected by a season ending injury to say that of a North Judson, who may only get 40 kids from grades 9-12. In wrestling, you don't have that issue, you have weight classes and many "small school" kids have proven that if you work hard, you can beat the Penn's and the Merrillville's. That's not the case with team sports like football where it takes an entire team and program to beat these bigger schools. 

Couldn't the Bombers prove that with hard work, they could compete with the the big boys?   I think you are selling them short.

By the way Y2, since your school is a 2A in your proposed "class system", how many state qualifiers did you have this season in a one class system? I just can't figure out why you want a class system so bad.

I don't think you know where he coaches

Indy big Un is.  This isn't the WWE.  Red Sr's antics are not cool.

I think he was trying to be ironic

agreed

 

 did you see lee and pruitt and rypels interview after the matches???  DULL!  rypel is a great wrestler and everything, but i don't want to hear about his mom, or how his team helped him or what he did for his team or what they did for him.  SNORE!!  

 

i loved when red, sr ran in front of the camera and flashed the "four" and struck a pose and how the other new pal coach taunted the fans.  EXCITING!!  show me the rule book that says its just about the kids.  should have given him the mic.  i bet he had some exciting stuff to say.  other coaches need to watch him.  he knows how to make wrestling exciting.  need more triple h attitude out there.

I don't think anyone is defending CR SR's actions.

straw man falacy

He certainly has gotten into some peoples heads.  I wonder why?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. LOL On one side you use the number of kids in the room and the total number of boys to choose from as a factor that limits fairness and provides an express advantage to large schools (hard to argue there) But on the flip side when it comes to evaluating the state results you are willing to discount the fact that the coach gets to choose from 50+ kids to put the best 14 out there. It's difficult for me to see how a 1A team (which may have a 1/10 of the wrestlers and student population) should get the same number of kids qualifying at state as a 3A school, and you could make the argument that would be horribly unfair if it did turn out that way.

You continue to make excellent points on the need for a classed tournament

The 1A schools represent 11% of the total student population, and likely near that same percentage of wrestlers (#'s in the room) When a team like Warren Central sends 14 guys to sectionals they get to pick from 50+ kids in the room. So those 14 represent 50+. Whereas the forfeit numbers in 1A suggest the average is close 10 sectional entries per team, so those 10 kids represent 10-12 wrestlers. It's hard to say our system is grossly unfair, even to the small schools as they are fairly represented both in terms of total student enrollment and participation rates. There are some good arguments for class wrestling but this and the forfeit data neither suggest overall improvement with the implementation of class wrestling (Y2K has made his point that it would help small schools, but it seems to come at the expense of the overall forfeit and participation rates)

You have just made a perfect argument for class wrestling.

Yes - why?

 

I have witnessed on multiple occasion kids that weren't varsity level at a larger school, going to a neighboring small school in order to make varsity. I don't see this point as being anything unbelievable. Am I missing something?

JV big school kids don't go to small schools and qualify for state.   

When figuring the percentage of kids that reach the state finals from different sized schools, it does show a disadvantage to the small schools. But when you figure the number of students these schools have - I would guess that might alter things.

For instance, and this is hypothetical because I haven't done the research - but say Blue River, a school with a senior class of around 50, has four wrestlers (which it does). Those four wrestlers are going to automatically qualify for sectionals, and have a shot at advancing further.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have a Warren Central with 3,685 students (922 per class). They have 14 wrestlers on varsity, and several wrestlers on the JV team not able to crack the varsity lineup. Those JV guys don't get to compete in sectional and have no shot at going to state. So Blue River, with its four wrestlers, at least gets a chance whereas the majority of kids in a vastly bigger school does not.

So by classing state, Blue River will still get its four wrestlers in the tournament. But Warren Central still has upwards of 40 plus wrestlers that get no shot at competing in the tournament.

I'd argue that small schools have a slight advantage in that regard. They get to be varsity wrestlers and can compete in the state tournament, whereas good wrestlers at larger schools have to first crack the varsity lineup to even have a shot.

Are you serious?

I have soft commitments from 13 wrestlers, just awaiting firm commitments from coaches and wrestlers after they check schedules and such. I will announce the team as we get those.

 

So far we have

 

Main Event

132lbs Chad Red of New Palestine

285lbs Shawn Streck of Merrillville

 

Team Indiana vs. WPIAL

132lbs Owen Doster of New Haven 

195lbs STATE CHAMPION Jake Kleimola of Lake Central

220lbs Sam Hipple of Carmel

285lbs Sean Galligar of Columbus East

 

Coaches

Ed "the animal" Pendoski

Any relation to George "The Animal" Steele

Jeremiah Harvey of culver back in 2011 I think finished 3rd or 4th in his sectional then went on to win the state title

3rd behind state runner up Damon Howe of Plymouth and 2012 state champ Abe Hall of Bremen.  Must have been something in the water in Marshall County

Good thing there is a place like Nebraska for the Gold medalists and other renegades like CR JR to hang out.

but come on now.....the backflip was sooooo disrespectful.

I would venture to say that most of the "WE" out there wouldn't have followed up the next day by spending 12+ hrs at a youth tournament coaching kids and volunteering their time to help out the youth of tomorrow either like he did.  Kid is a class act and a nice person to talk to no matter if he knows you or not.  The last thing that most of the readers need to keep in mind is that he is still a KID, let him act like it if he choses.

WE don't care about that.  WE feel his actions are childish and he needs to be taught a lesson.  

*My last few posts are sarcastic representations of those that are trashing CR JR.