Kookie953

Ha. You guys missed the irony. I'm also on my phone so I don't know if the goofy emoji came thru.

I just don't think you do water down the single greatest high school event. Especially after another sport did the same thing to pretty noticeable results.

So if you guys would like a few hundred in the gym for "small school State", a "big school state" held at perhaps New Castle or Southport or UIndy, then have at it.

But I'm just failing to see a problem. It's not all about championships. Perhaps there should be some value in placing in a sectional or regional.

I grant you that increased numbers in the practice room are an advantage for the larger schools, and georgraphic proximity to academies helps...but you also can't explain to me how a school like Lawrence Central gets zero to state and North Central and Ben Davis (Top 5 in enrollment) gets 1 respectively. There's much more to it than that, which you know.

Yes that's exactly it.

You've convinced me. What Indiana needs is 6 classes and much bigger trophies. That way the kids will feel extra special and more will participate!

Good points above, sounds like they have been argued as nasueum before so nothing to really add.

One argument I have yet to see made however is the same argument I had about class basketball. I happened to be the last class that ever played single class basketball, and was asked to give a "player's opinion" way back when.

Too much emphasis is put on the "ultimate" win (state finals) than what is just as much of a storyline...which is the cinderlla that may beat a big guy for a sectional title.

This is antecodtal evidence, but Tri West is a consolidation of 3 small Hendricks county schools...the former Pittsboro, Lizton, and North Salem High Schools. Back in 1975 Pittsboro pulled the mammoth upset and won their sectional over the "big boys" of Plainfield and Brownsburg. That sectional win is still talked today on the barstool of the Mason Inn in Pittsboro just as much or if not more as the class State championship TriWest participated in.

There's also something to be said about geography and being able to beat those you live close to that is totally lost by doing classes.

It's not always about state finals...sometimes beating the guy from the big school to punch your 4th place and ticket to regional is as meaningful as 2 forefeits and pinning a scrub would do to advance to the small school regional.

 

That is anecdotal evidence.

Here are real statistics rather than general observations

From 2011-2016

3 classes

Pla- 3A(xx.xx%)  2A(xx.xx%)  1A(xx.xx%)

1st- 63(75.00%)  17(20.24%)  4(4.76%

2nd- 67(79.76%)  14(16.67%)  3(3.57%

3rd- 56(66.67%)  23(27.38%)  5(5.95%

4th- 52(61.90%)  27(32.14%)  5(5.95%

5th- 58(69.05%)  22(26.19%)  4(4.76%

6th- 59(70.24%)  20(23.81%)  5(5.95%

7th- 65(77.38%)  16(19.05%)  3(3.57%

8th- 61(72.62%)  13(15.48%)  10(11.90%

 

Qualifiers- total

3A- 1160- 64.73%

2A- 468- 26.12%

1A- 164- 9.15%

 

More success means more people recognized for their hard work. More people recognized would lead to more promotion of the sport and thus more popularity. That is good.

I don't have time to do the research at the moment, but my hypothesis is that your stats on State Qualifiers would seem to prove my point.  How is that?

Well...I would venture to say that 65% of IHSAA wrestlers go to 3A schools, 26% go to 2A schools, and 9% go to 1A schools.  In other words, if those 2 figures match up (overall wrestling population by school vs. state finals participation) then that would seem to say that where you go to school doesn't matter.  

If the Ellis kid from Eastern went to Ben Davis, Penn, or Warren Central...that kid is still going to win state.  

What am I missing?

I am totally new, and therefore totally unqualified and I haven't participated in previous discussions / debates...but if the argument is that class wrestling would increase participation that would seem to be totally illogical.

Of any sport that I have seen, you either love to wrestle or you don't.  I really don't think expecting a "successful state run" will matter much to a 14-18 year old kid making a choice to wrestle.  

And of any sport there is...wrestling is the ultimate meritocracy.  It does not matter where you are from...if you can beat the guy in front of you then you advance.  Just the incredibly long list of schools participating in the state finals...and the fact that small schools can have multiples more participants than the behemoth high schools (or some 5A and 6A football schools having ZERO participants in the state finals) proves this fact.  

Any statistics that would seem to show a correlation between class wrestling and an increase in participation would be a study in false equivalency in my opinion.  

Should also add...while "our team" won its first state title and I was incredibly proud of the entire team, coaches, and parents...and you won't find a nicer kid than B Lee and seeing what he did was awesome...

My favorite moment of the entire day was when I finally got a chance to see Slick Rickie after his match and give him a big ole bear hug and tell him how proud I was of him...and I'm not a hugger. LOL.

It gave me a small glimpse and appreciation of what every single one of those parents must have felt seeing their son on the floor of BLF, no matter where their son might have finished. What a great event.

You will not find a better kid than Rickie Clark. I've had the pleasure of coaching him in football the last 3 years, and he's just one of those people that is a joy to be around. I literally lost my voice that match, and was so happy for the freaky and sneaky athletic Rickie.

Samuels was one of my favorites from last year...and watching him destroy people on the gridiron was fun too (except against us).

While I normally hate the saying...I will pull it out in the rare instance. There were no losers in that matchup.

As a side note, my prediction is we see Rickie as a comedian, talk show host, actor. Literally one of the funniest kids around.

Two straight for me.  #Boom

I have a beginner in 5th grade.  He does our club and an academy because even though he's new, he's fallen in love with the sport.  

Neither the club nor the academy has been anything but a great experience...even if he (and his family) are as green as they come to the sport.  And the improvement that has come from having to bring his lunchpail to the academy every practice has been immense.  

Proud of #TheCounty and #PainTrain .  My kid might be the epitome of what building a program is about, because even if he never becomes "elite" or even wrestles at the high school...he's at least giving the sport a shot with really good valuable instruction and we will see what happens from here.  

He never expressed a desire to wrestle until after a year ago when we attended our first State Finals at BLF and watched 8 of "ours" compete in that great event.  From there, he wanted to give it a shot so he did with the high school club.  He quickly fell in love and wanted to supplement and "catch up" (his words) by also attending an academy.  He is fired up about representing his school club and his academy at every turn.  We are really fortunate because these are not mutually exclusive entities.  They build off each other if done well.  

.

its funny on this site at times because when you are consistently using the "#'s" people are upset and get bent out of shape.  Sometimes the administrators even create backdoor rules so the use of a "#" then is posted as saying something else like "Triple B is my homeboy"............but stop using them for a few days and the people start making posts begging for them to come back and needing the security of reading all things "#"

 

Well if you request it then I am sure you will get it..................let me get it started.................

 

#TheCounty

#PainTrain

#AvonYoungunz

#Snyder/Weisjahn/SeymourTrained

#BlevinsTrained

#CWA

#ParrishTrained

#GrowTheSport

You forgot #CRedTrained

I've seen some mention in this thread about Trackwrestling profile being "manipulated".  My son and I are new to the sport...he just started in November as a 5th grader and has had some moderate success...but even moreso he loves the sport after playing hoops his whole life.  As I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but what the sport teaches is so much more important than his record at this point.  

We've registered in some "beginner" tournaments where it was rather obvious his opponent was far from a beginner...yet their track profile would read "0-0".  That's no problem, I believe you do your best against whoever you face and learn from it regardless of a "beginner" or "open" tourney.

My view is who cares...you wrestle who you wrestle and if you get your butt kicked then you get back to work to get better, but clearly there seems to be some parents that must be living vicariously and love to see that extra 1/2 a star on their son's profile?  

So I'm just curious how it's manipulated...and even more than that, WHY?  My kid has improved tremendously since he started and he is currently a gym rat so I can see him much improved in 6 months, but there's no way in hades I'm going to try to "manipulate" his record.  It is what it is.  So why would some parents do this?