Super_Fan

Well if i had to assume the reason they decided to class wrestling i would guess that they put more importance on the team rather than the individual. LOL i love your title above your picture now... It suits you well sir

Thats a nice document...

I don't know why they decided to class wrestling? Maybe you should ask them and not the guy opposing classing wrestling... I don't see it closing the gap... School populations wont change in a way to increase population for smaller schools thus not giving them many more "elite" wrestlers than they had to start with... In fact I would guess that because it would be classed those "elite" athletes from the small schools would move to bigger schools just like kids now drive to national events in order to search out better competition. Well your percentages were slightly off in the beginning because there wasn't 3600 entries and also there were more 3A entries than 1A so the data you presented was slightly incorrect bringing those numbers slightly closer to what we would expect them to look like. I would also assume its due to the fact that most 1A schools dont wrestle many big tourneys or 3A schools in their regular season schedule so they lack the experience of wrestling "elite" competition in a very stressful situation.

1. FALSE just because a kid from a 1a school qualifies for sectionals doesn't mean he is at the same level as a kid from a 3a school. As i have stated before this is due to the bigger schools having a larger sample size to determine their sectional entries. 2. TRUE because of the probability of 3A schools having more "elite" wrestlers out of their 2000 sample size. The only way you will make this equal, as you prefer, in a one class system is to have all school sizes the exact same so their probability of having "elite" wrestlers is the same... Even if you class the event the sample sizes for small schools wont change... They may get more average wrestlers but the "elite" kids are already wrestling...

These differences work for teams not individuals... Just because a bigger school has a higher probability of having more "elite" athletes doesnt make those elite athletes better than a small schools elite athletes

Lol your not bad at all. I respect your opinions I'm just trying to get you to see that everything you say isn't 100% correct and it's not law just because you think it... Other people have factual information that doesn't support your theory and you just deny it... There are many ways we can accomplish these things without making it a classed individual tourney.

How can you guys not agree that a bigger schools varsity roster is not equal to a small schools varsity roster simply based on probability of having a good wrestler in their school system?

I'm assuming they have people like you in charge??? But by not taking the entire school population into consideration you are saying that before the school year even started those 14 individuals were already predetermined... Which is not true. If i interview 10 people for a job or if i interview 1000 people for that same job which would most likely land me with the best person to fill that position???

They are only ineligible at the time of sectionals... But from the beginning of the season all the way until that point they are your sample size.... Because on a team aspect, a larger school has more students (SAMPLE SIZE) to find 14 individuals to make a team and based on probability they are more likely to have "elite" individuals. A smaller school is exactly the opposite... This does NOT mean that the smaller probability of the small schools having an "elite" wrestler has any effect what so ever on that individuals ability to be better than a larger schools wrestler...

Those kids are not ineligible they just weren't the best 14 out of the sample size...

Yeah because the 12 kids on the 1A team that made varsity by simply being the only kid in the school at that weight class is clearly equal to the kid that beat out 4 other kids in order to get that varsity spot... Because the fact of the matter is those 1A schools have such a small sample size the kids who have never wrestled even maybe some who don't care for wrestling end up making the varsity team by default...Big schools don't face this issue because they have 3x larger sample size to find 14 kids who like and are good at wrestling

It's just the American way... I want the best and I want it now...

BECAUSE CARROLL HAS 2000 KIDS TO FIND 14 GOOD ONES FROM WHILE CHURUBUSCO HAS 500 KIDS TO FIND 14 GOOD ONES FROM... How is it that hard to understand???

Man i see all this and just think about all the hours i used to spend in the car traveling to indy and so on every single weekend just to find competition at these local tournaments. In fact we traveled one weekend from Angola IN all the way to EMD for their tourney.

those are all TEAM sports...

Yeah your correct you are picking the individual AFTER the school and coaches have sorted through all 2000 kids and determined their varsity team... but an individual at a larger school is more likely to be better than an individual at a small school becuase they have a larger sample size to draw from... the school size matters because a large school could have 5 106 pounders to find the best one from while the small school may only have 1 kid in the whole school who is 106 pounds... so as individuals they are not equal... The school size doesn't mean that if that single 106 pounder from the small school had all the characteristics to be the best 106 pounder in the state he couldn't do it... I'm done arguing this topic... Obviously the IHSAA understands this and that's why they haven't classed individual sports... For heavens sake...

And your really going to make me walk through the numbers in order to explain this to you??? ok so here goes nothing... Lets say i have two different school sizes. 1A schools consist of 400 students and 2A school that consist of 2000 students... I'm the wrestling coach and need to find 14 "elite" wrestlers. Who has a better chance of having 14 "elite" wrestlers mr. math? So if this is true, simply based on probability, wouldn't you say that the larger schools 14 wrestlers would typically be better than the 14 wrestlers from the smaller school? Im saying if size of schools matter then we would still only want 1A schools to make up 13% of the "elite" wrestlers in the state? If its more than that then obviously its too many and watered down... Currently we have 5% or whatever you said but with a classed system 50% of the "elite" wrestlers (State champions) would be from 1A schools...

And how would any of these things change just by cutting off 1A schools from competing with 3A schools? Now if a kid wants to be an elite wrestler and wrestle in college he is now forced to move to a 3A school so he can get that scholarship. We lose the possibility for those 1A kids that want to be elite athletes having the opportunity to do so... Now they are stuck only winning state in the "Kiddies tourny". Do you think they are going to get that full ride scholarship to penn state? or is it going to go to the 3A state champion? And thats all they get... Good job in high school now your DI college wrestling dreams go up in smoke because you went to the 1A school. and if we change to a classed system we should still only want 13% but end up with 50% which is further off the goal???

1. False (Because carroll has 2000 kids to find 14 good wrestlers and garrett has say only 500 kids to find 14 good wrestlers. So obviously carroll should be able to have a more sound group of 14 wrestlers.) 2. Carroll because of the fact stated above 3. We class athletics because proportionate to school population larger schools have a higher probability of finding a GROUP of individuals that excell at a certain task. Not that because the larger school 138 pounder is better than a small schools 138 pounder.

They are a few percentage short how is this the worst thing in the world? If we class wrestling we now have an even distribution across the board. 50% and 50% when there is a much smaller group of people to compete against and still win a state championship isn't this an even BIGGER advantage for small schools than the few percentage problem we have now??? I would go on to bet that if we increased the numbers slightly to include more wrestlers at state we would see the numbers come a little closer to what they should be... But the fact is it is a combination of all those things. (Genetics, skill, mental toughness, coachability and so on...)

It is but just on a smaller basis. When you have 2000 kids in each school you will have a higher probability of kids having those skills compared to a school with only 500 kids. The disadvantage is that those schools only have 500 kids in their student population. If every school had the same population it would be as "fair" as you guys want.

But they don't simply based on probability of having an elite athelete in your school district. Most 1a varsity kids would be jv at a 3a school because at the 3a school they would have a much higher probability of having an elite athelete... Make sense? Idk how else to explain this to you guys. Maybe you should sit in on the prob and stats class at your high school and they could do a better job explaining it to you since we are failing at it... Maybe it's because most 3a school don't want to waste their time wrestling schools with (due to probability) only a couple state level kids on the whole team. So when these kids make it to state they lack the experience throughout the season to wrestle well under the pressure of being at state??? Just a thought though

So now the 106 kid losses out... Either way someone loses More kids is good. But that doesn't mean that kids will be BETTER. As we discussed earlier if kids want to reach that elite level they have to put in the mat time. 2 average kids wrestling each other likely wont create a state caliber kid. Your bet is ludacris because the fact of the matter is those 3A schools have selected 14 kids for their vasity team out of THOUSANDS. 1A schools have selected 14 kids out of a few HUNDRED. BEFORE we even pick our 700/100 kids... So the sample size isn't the varsity teams the sample size is the student population... How don't you guys understand this fact??? So the bet really looks like this: I get to pick 700 out of 10,000 kids to make it to state While you get to pick 100 out of 150,000 kids to make it to state. Who has better odds of having more state caliber wrestlers???

So these new 120 or 126 kids would magically be better than the 106? They would likely still be on the same skill level as the 106 so now they just get to wrestle kids that weigh more but are just as lacking skill wise.....

It means his bet is ludacris. Obviously when i have a sample size of hundreds of thousands I would be more likely to pick more state caliber wrestlers than if i have a sample size of tens of thousands no matter how many from each we picked... If you wanted to make this bet it would have to be a random drawling from students in the ENTIRE sample size to make it fair, not just the varsity line up. So how would class wrestling get you any more kids in that weight class to come to your school district? It wouldn't you have what you have... You say "The problem is that the guy wrestling him gets very little out of the time they are practicing with the 106 because they are so much better." Isn't this just proving the point that by just having more kids on the team doesn't equate to BETTER kids on the team? or BETTER kids overall in the state? In my opnion having more qualifiers for the state tourny is the best solution for both sides. It makes it more "fair" for you class advocates but still allows for a compilation of the best wrestlers from the whole state. And here is why i think this: As Y2 stated before in this thread a DI college program isn't likely to give an athletic scholarship to even a state champion from a small school division. So when we class wrestling aren't we now telling kids if they want a college scholarship to wrestle they have to go to a big school anyways? Isn't this going to limit the overall potential of a small school wrestler who decides he wants to commit to the time and effort it takes on the mat to reach that level? If we just have more qualifiers it will still allow those few individuals at small schools that want to devote their time and effort to wrestling to still have the exact same spot light a wrestler from a big school would have.