bulldog145

So the big schools would be ok with having less post season success due to being eliminated earlier in the tournament series because they face each other from 1st round? I find that hard to believe.

I have said this on here multiple times over the years when it comes to building a program at a small school. Post season success is huge and will help build a program tremendously. It's extremely hard to get kids out when Sectional is probably the "end of the road" for the majority of small school wrestlers. Who wants to wrestle when you can't win and who can win without wrestlers? Classing is the clear answer. But "big" schools don't want to wrestle each other early in the tournament series.

Bottom Line.....Big Schools don't want to wrestle each other at the beginning of the tournament series. If they do, that means less qualifiers, less placers, less post season success.

What is the most common set of weight classes used for middle school tournaments that are NOT ran by USA or IHSWCA?

What is the most common set of weight classes used for middle school tournaments that are NOT ran by USA or IHSWCA?

I totally agree with that.... for this year's results. I think we are both in agreement that there needs to be a change somehow, somewhere or these small school programs will disappear completely.

Absolutely it would. Taking 6-8 kids from our Sectional maybe with a Champ or 2 every year would absolutely help a program grow.

I believe this is completely wrong. Fishers and HSE drive time to Frankfort is just over and hour. However they are only 45min or less away from Elwood. And I'm sure there are more examples. 1 of 2 things is happening. 1. No one wants to put the work in to analyze a better solution OR 2. To much outside influence controlling alignments.

I totally understand that and agree with you, but wouldn't we want to maximize the chance of an opportunity?

I stand corrected. I missed that Benton Central flipped over to Twin Lakes. (Probably as an attempt to balance Sectionals) The point of this was to point out that an overloaded sectional really snuffs a school trying to build a solid program when their is no post season success. It is very frustrating for kids to see competition that they have beaten have post season success and the only reason for it is because of a more balanced Sectional. You can't tell me that having kids with a successful post season does not help build a program. This issue needs to be addressed or we will lose programs.

I would like to see the opinions of the bottom half of the better sectionals of their programs continued success based off those results. I would be willing to bet they are struggling.

Lafayette Jeff Sectional 340 55.20% Twin Lakes Sectional 276 44.80% I disagree. Had Attica stayed in the Crawfordsville sectional, the Northmont Regional was a dead end (with the exception of a very few outliers). Since the move to Lafayette Jeff (which is relatively balanced with the Twin Lakes Sectional) they have been able to send a hand full of kids to SS for the last few years. One has to believe the success of those kids has fueled the development of a solid program.

I have also done Oak Hill/Peru and Lafayette Jeff/Logansport. They are much more balanced over the 10yr spread. The argument is that there is a success factor that helps build programs. If a program can't have any success at the Sectional/Regional level that program will slowly die. If there is a balance at the Sectional level, more programs are able to have a chance at having success. Success breeds success. I'm talking programs as a whole. If you look at Lafayette Jeff Sectional: Attica went from almost no program, sending nearly no one to North Montgomery Regional to a Class A State team once they were moved to Lafayette Jeff Sectional which is more balanced. You could also look at the Western/Oak Hill programs for the same comparisons. Those teams (Western/Oak Hill) continue to rebuild and have success. Do you think if they had to go through a Sectional like Frankfort they would still have strong programs?

2018 2019 2020 Total Participants Advancing to Semi-State Total Participants Advancing to Semi-State Total Participants Advancing to Semi-State Frankfort/Zionsville Sectional Crawfordsville Sectional Frankfort/Zionsville Sectional Crawfordsville Sectional Frankfort/Zionsville Sectional Crawfordsville Sectional 2 2 4 0 3 1 2 2 4 0 4 0 2 2 3 1 4 0 3 1 4 0 3 1 2 2 1 3 3 1 3 1 2 2 3 1 3 1 2 2 3 1 2 2 3 1 3 1 2 2 3 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 1 2 2 2 2 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 2 2 4 0 3 1 32 24 41 15 41 15 57.10% 73.20% 73.20%

After compiling some data over the last 11yrs, the Frankfort/Zionsville Sectional has completely dominated the Crawfordsville Sectional. With the constant talk of growing our sport in our state, wouldn't it make sense to try and balance out the competition among Sectionals? I know that talent and depth will fluctuate from time to time and the results can tip back and forth but a continuous domination should call for a change. (More than just moving Zionsville over to Crawfordsville, as that didn't change results much) Are there any other cases throughout the state similar to this? Any way, here is the data... TOTAL WRESTLERS ADVANCING TO SEMI-STATE FROM 2010-2020 FRANKFORT/ZIONSVILLE SECTIONAL 434 70.50% CRAWFORDSVILLE SECTIONAL 182 29.50% If you would like to see the year by year data I can post that as well.

Frankfort Sectional has 41 Semi State Qualifiers vs Crawfordsville Sectional having 15. Are there any other Sectionals that continue to dominate at Regional? If so, why isn't there a change? Before Zionsville moved over to Crawfordsville it was much worse.

But this could also turn a program around instantly. Going from losing most of its duals to winning several which would gain interest of more kids and ultimately fill all 14 classes the following year eliminating the FF issue all together. There are pro's and cons to every change but just my thoughts.

Since FF's are now part of the Sectional Seeding Criteria, and favor the wrestlers that don't receive them, why count them at all? I say team score should be kept from matches wrestled. If a team only has 10 kids then team score should be kept from just those matches.

Does the Association send out certificates or is that on the schools??