Wrestling Scholar
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Everything posted by Wrestling Scholar
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Logansport had seven wrestlers go to state. I think you're short on the runner-ups as Meyer of Harrison and Duvall of West Lafayette both placed 2nd. Probably well known that this regional has always been weaker. IMO, it just has a lot of smaller 1A and 2A schools that have trouble getting past the bigger NWI schools at the semi-state.
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On the call on the Hartman vs Torres match, this was a tough call to make by the refs but it obviously was the right call. Torres made a serious mistake and did not take him safely to the Mat. You have to be safe, as kids getting seriously really damages the future of the sport. And Hartman wasn't faking, he was out of it and had typical concussion symptoms. And there is not a trainer or Doctor that would of let Hartman continue. Hope the kid has a rapid recovery as concussions can be tricky. Its BS to blame the 15 year old kid here. Bad break for Torres, but lets not get on line say he screwed, he made his own bed on this. -
New idea. Tell me your thoughts
Wrestling Scholar replied to rey mysterio's topic in Past Discussions
Definitely an over exaggerated generalization on my part, but trying to make a point. But you're corrrect that is IHSAA thinking and a percentage of wrestling fans also think this way. -
New idea. Tell me your thoughts
Wrestling Scholar replied to rey mysterio's topic in Past Discussions
Dangski, Im not from Indiana either, but this is what I figured out about Indiana. Indiana wrestling fan thinking: Wrestlebacks are are stupid and waste of a time. If you lose you deserve to be out. The only placement thats relevant is first place. If you get a bad draw, thats a good learning experience for the rest of your life. Every other state thinking: Every wrestling tournament I've been to has cross bracketing or wrestle backs. You're telling me that there's other places that don't have wrestle backs. What the heck, then the best guys always don't advance. How do you get true placing? -
Of all the Pros and cons of class wrestling, I think a positive would be the increased attendance. More schools would have participants and the result more people would attend to come see the the kid wrestle from their school or family wrestle. So do the math. One less Cosgrove and one less class hater =-2, offset by 500 more parents, 100 more grand parents, 25 uncles and aunts, 200 more brothers and sisters, 50 more girlfriends and 750 wrestling teammates and friends of the guys wrestling. Hate to see Cosgrove not go, but when I add it all up I get a net gain of 2,123 spectators or $42,460 dollars more gate. Also, somehow I think Cosgrove might still sneak in, but would never admit it.
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Denton was all class on Saturday, and really just loved the fact that he still had a smile on the stand and was talking to all the other placers. Everbody knew he wasnt 100%. I think he gets the bigger picture. I hope he feels better next week and I think he got the best draw he could of got (no Micic). The Regional winner who drew Blake can't be happy about the draw. Definitely some good matches this weekend. I just loved the effort out of the 138 lb weight class. Both the final and consolation final were amazing. None of these guys wanted to lose and hope everybody walked away with their heads high after those matches. And Metcalf and Atkinson both looked just as fresh in OT as they did in first period. The call at the end could of gone either way as that was a tough one on the ref. Also the Armuth and Fritz match was amazing, as both guys atacked and counter attacked the whole match. Too bad a caution on jump start was the difference. Huge difference this match made for semi-state draws. Also the biggest surprise and most was Gabe Welch at 152. He really impressed. Van Meter has looked tough all year, but he didn't have an answer for Welch. Also loved Daniel Davis's composure in the OT. Another gutsy win over Miller. Seems like Miller has always been close but never could never find the answer for Davis. At 182, Daniel Wright wrestled a smart tactical match against Wade and the results showed. At 220 Meyer is looking dominant and a pinning machine this year. Also very curious to see how Mote and Garpow do at 170 as both looked sharp. Wouldnt be surprise to see both get though to state.
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Wade will have a tough time with Wright. I think Pruitt gets Wade first, but a must see match. Garpow vs Doty will be a fun match, but Mote is looking real good right now at 170. Two first round matches that I'm looking forward to are Sigman vs Grammar at 145 and Switzer vs Inman at 126. I think Grammar gets Sigman.
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NJ is just one, but 24 qualify per weight class. Maybe a debatable question, is 16 qualifiers too small of a number for Indiana?
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Fabio is right. There's two legitimate sides to the argument. And if the only thing you have is the success of Mater Dei to support your statement is weak. Mater Dei's success is an outlier compared to the rest of the small schools, and it also has the private school advantage. I bet there's 25 small school programs in the state that are struggling to generate enought interest so they don't shut it down next year. Just because something has always been that way, doesn't mean its the best way. 41 states have class wrestling and it didnt ruin wrestling in their states.
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Good thinking. LOL
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Thats very interesting. You're right that their could be many factors that contributes to Ohio's success, but the classing of wrestling maybe one of the factors. I love your research. Where do you get this info?
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Looks like you're going pretty heavy on the Twin Lakes sectional and against historical trends.
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Joe I lived in Ohio 5 years and my older son wrested high school there, and I worked with a lot of the kids. Of course none of the kids said they were a slacker for anything. I dont remember people talking about class wrestling as they're comfortable with their system. Most of them would argue till blue in their face that they have the best wrestling state and the best wrestling system. They had a lot of tangible evidence to back it up, but I might give PA the #1. I guess the point is, its fair to say Ohio is a step ahead of Indiana, and they have class wrestling. Maybe there is no cause and affect as to why they're doing so well and that they have class wrestling. But its not hurting their wrestling product either.
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I don't think so. It would give a realistic goal for some of the smaller schools to actually compete with each other and not get squashed by the big guy. You could win your state championship, and then you get you're big school vs small school (Hoosiers experience). The NCAA used to let the D2 All-Americans compete in the NCAA D1 tournament and occasionally one some of those guys would have placed. This didnt take away from their D2 accomplishments. It was icing on the cake. The biggest difference from basketball and wrestling was that was a team thing and the wrestlers are individual. We see already that occassionaly the small school guy can hop in and do something. I think the debatable question in the multiple class system vs the one class system: Does one promote more participation over the other? Does the fact that we have one class, and the mountain is so high to win something, that high schoolers forgo competing in wrestling. Or is it that we have one class, does the goal of becoming the true state champ motivate kids to work harder and make a more competitive environment that encourages wrestlers.
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My idea to have are cake and eat it to. Lets have a class tournament with 3 classes. This would shorten the state tournament a week. Then use the additional week to have the ultimate state championship and take the 4 placers from each classs and then have a them wrestle off for the championship. We would have class state champions like the others states, but the other states woulndnt have the ultimate state champion.
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I think most boys would like to have a 150-14 career record against boys in their high school career.
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Purdue / Ohio State Monday February 3rd
Wrestling Scholar replied to johnnyh's topic in Past Discussions
I agreee. I think Kissel at 174 was overmatched and would of have been an upset if he won. Kissel wrestled pretty well. The 197 match was the one Purdue had to have and Atwood's effort didnt disappoint. He gave everything he had. Heflin's defense on his feet was tough and Atwood couldn't penetrate on his shot. Braden almost found a way to win. Loved the effort from both guys. I think Purdue's lost opportunity was at 165 as Robinson potentially could have majored Grandominoco and got that extra bonus point to tie it up. Definitely not an easy task but was doable. Is there a criteria who would win in case of a tie? -
Well beat the dead horse here. Does make it right to lose on Friday and not get a chance to wrestle, when some other guy you're better than gets to go ahead ( and place) because he got a better draw. Its wrong, but thats the way its always been so thats the way it goes. Show me another state that doesnt have wrestlebacks?
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This sounds like poor planning, obviously you know this could happen. You have to recognize this might occur with a 16 man bracket and at least make a two day tournament. Why do we hate wrestlebacks so much in Indiana? It ensures the wrestlers place. Also, class wrestling has it's pros and cons. Im sure Joe could point out the cons. I do have to embarrasingly admit that the "class wrestling debate" goes on the talk forum in my home state. Out west, its quite common to have at least four classes per state or four state tournaments. Most these states have a smaller population than Indiana. This results in state tournament formats where you have 32 teams per class. To qualify, they have four "Regionals" of eight schools. Half the wrestlers qualify for the state tournament. So the ratio of state qualifiers is 16 out of 32 or 50%. Compare that to Indiana where you have 16 out of 312 or 5.1%. Indiana is much more exclusive. The embarrasing thing is that there is always a regional at a lighter weight were only 4 schools cant field a wrestler. The result is that just by weighing in, you automatically qualify for state. Seems unfair from the Indiana perspective.
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Maligned, How about at state. You obviosly cant say that the best guys always place and that there is a measurable deviation due to the randomness of the four semi-states coming together. I think this topic was talked about last year. I know you love you're statistics. Another guy and I took a data sample from a few other 16man bracket state tournaments that had wrestlebacks. I don't know of any other states that don't have wrestle backs. The results were that of all the wrestlers that lost in the first round, these wrestlers were able to come back and place 8th or higher within a range of 15 -20% of the time. So my hypothetical statement that there is inaccuracy of state placers at the Indiana state tournament, there is a inaccuracy of placing of the true best wrestler up to 15 to 20%.
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Purdue / Ohio State Monday February 3rd
Wrestling Scholar replied to johnnyh's topic in Past Discussions
I might put 125 in the key match category. I'll favor OSU on this one, but if Purdue is going to beat the Buckeyes this is one of their best chances they've had in a long time. -
Tough way to lose an undefeated season and lose in the semis of sectionals and Im sure difficult to swallow. I havent seen a defensive pin (guy pin himself) in a couple years but it happens once every blue moon. Switzer was very fortunate to win his next one against Wade. This was a one point match and Wade had him on his back for a moment in the 3rd and IMO should of got back points but didn't. 126 was an interesting weight class as there was 5 guys that were very evenly matched and probably the deepest weight class in the sectional.
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Harrison is sending 12
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I was right about 120. Looks like they got the seeding right at 120 also. I wasn't that far off my 126 prediction either. Maybe I do have idea what I'm talking about.
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Really Lukaszka. Your kid is a really good wrestler, and he will have his fair chance. Ill give you that. But do you think personally insulting kids from other teams your wrestling against is a smart thing to do? Especially from a head coach. What happened to your class?