Coach Brobst

This is a good analogy.
 
In baseball, you constantly hear coaches pleading for officials to just be consistent with it. But they are not talking between officials, they are meaning that if an individual official is calling a tight strike zone then be consistent with calling it tight. If an official has a big strike zone then just be consistent with that. Baseball coaches will claim that if an official is just consistent with how it is called then they & their athletes can adjust.
 
I believe this is how wrestling coaches & athletes need to approach it. As long as an individual official is consistent with how they call it, then coaches & competitors should be able to adjust. It may not be perfect but I got news for you - humans are not perfect.
 

Agree with consistency  of stalling. We have Mishawaka area officials come in for our Conference tourney and it is SO different than the rest of the year. 
 
One big area I tried to improve when I took over at HSE 5 years ago was ensuring we wrestled aggressively so I track stalling every year to see what positions we're getting hit in and what the context is (a stalling in the first/second period is very different than one when you're up by 5 and just icing the match in an individual tourney especially).
 
This past 2 years data with the Mishawaka officials at Conference are telling:
 
2021-22 Data:
Top Position Stalls: 7 (5 at conference by one official, 2 for not returning the guy quickly enough)
Bottom Position Stalls: 10 (6 at conference, the other 4 by one kid who legit stalls on bottom)
Neutral Stalling (including double stalls (only 1 of those): 12 (6 at conference, 3 at semistate (all by same official))
 
2022-23 Data:
Top Position Stalls: 6 (5 at conference, 3 by same official, the other was this past weekend by not returning to mat in 3rd place bout)
Bottom Position Stalls: 6 (4 at conference, 1 at Regionals)
Neutral Stalls: 8 (5 at conference, 3 others when we were icing matches)
 
My kids sometimes get out of position, but one of our strategies has been to have the deepest gas tank, keep scoring points, and stay on the gas even when winning. All this to say that most officials recognize this and we don't get hit with a lot of stalling as a program because of it. EXCEPT during one tourney where the officials come from a different part of the state. I'm not complaining about those officials, they do a great job, they just see it differently and call it differently. It's good for our guys to be exposed to that so they're not shocked by it in the state series.
 
As you stated, don't care which way we do it, but clearly there is a difference in how it is being interpreted and that needs to be streamlined so that we can coach it correctly for our kids.
 
 
 
 

Agree with consistency  of stalling. We have Mishawaka area officials come in for our Conference tourney and it is SO different than the rest of the year. 
 
One big area I tried to improve when I took over at HSE 5 years ago was ensuring we wrestled aggressively so I track stalling every year to see what positions we're getting hit in and what the context is (a stalling in the first/second period is very different than one when you're up by 5 and just icing the match in an individual tourney especially).
 
This past 2 years data with the Mishawaka officials at Conference are telling:
 
2021-22 Data:
Top Position Stalls: 7 (5 at conference by one official, 2 for not returning the guy quickly enough)
Bottom Position Stalls: 10 (6 at conference, the other 4 by one kid who legit stalls on bottom)
Neutral Stalling (including double stalls (only 1 of those): 12 (6 at conference, 3 at semistate (all by same official))
 
2022-23 Data:
Top Position Stalls: 6 (5 at conference, 3 by same official, the other was this past weekend by not returning to mat in 3rd place bout)
Bottom Position Stalls: 6 (4 at conference, 1 at Regionals)
Neutral Stalls: 8 (5 at conference, 3 others when we were icing matches)
 
My kids sometimes get out of position, but one of our strategies has been to have the deepest gas tank, keep scoring points, and stay on the gas even when winning. All this to say that most officials recognize this and we don't get hit with a lot of stalling as a program because of it. EXCEPT during one tourney where the officials come from a different part of the state. I'm not complaining about those officials, they do a great job, they just see it differently and call it differently. It's good for our guys to be exposed to that so they're not shocked by it in the state series.
 
As you stated, don't care which way we do it, but clearly there is a difference in how it is being interpreted and that needs to be streamlined so that we can coach it correctly for our kids.
 
 
 
 

Coach Brobst,  you bring up some good points on stalling and consistency.  I like you're data perspective of tracking stalling calls.   It brings up  a novel idea.  What if we had a statistic based on stalling calls per match.   Maybe Track wrestling could add this statistic, then we could track this data by tournament, region, season  and even by official.   Maybe we could evaluate officials better and get more consistency in the most inconsistent call in Inidiana wrestling.   I know it would be difficult, but seems possible to me.
 
 

I 100% agree. I was one of the loudest realignment advocates in the past because I felt like it was lopsided and didn’t see a path to evening it out without it.
 
However, in the past couple of seasons we’ve seen a massive step forward from the Ft. Wayne area in general as far as depth. 
 
Are there some weights where you want to draw FW? Sure, but there were some where you absolutely did not and that’s a big improvement.
 
As a coach that felt we’d get more kids out if we were in that semi-state over New Castle for a long time, I’ll admit I no longer believe that’s true. I think top end talent will always lag but there’s many more darn good kids up there than there used to be and it’s a testament to the coaches that have put in the time to drive it at schools like Delta, Rochester, Western, and Jay County all being teams that were frankly on par with any 3A team and most 4 A teams.
 
My team wrestled a tough schedule for the most part and finished 16-5 (far better than I though we’d do) and we still got blasted out of our shoes at individual tourneys by Western at the Kyle Osborn Invite and By Delta at the Mooresville Holiday Classic. It won’t be long before Shepherd lands another on top of the podium (Betz will be in the mix next season) or Lecount gets his first (Bollinger and Mosier both mighty close already and their MS team is nails too). Rochester did it last year and has the horses to land another there soon (did you see little Beck compete with Goin on Friday? And Horn will be in the mix too)
 
That’s just a few small schools to say nothing of the improvements Snider and Homestead have made as well, and I’m sure Carroll will bounce back soon. And I’m sure there are plenty of other programs seizing the day and making strides that I can’t speak on, but good on them.
 
To summarize, Ft Wayne has turned this once non-believer into a fan. And Indiana wrestling is better for it. Now I have to go get to work training my guys to be able to compete with and beat those teams and it’s gonna take all 300 days I have to to do it!

I 100% agree. I was one of the loudest realignment advocates in the past because I felt like it was lopsided and didn’t see a path to evening it out without it.
 
However, in the past couple of seasons we’ve seen a massive step forward from the Ft. Wayne area in general as far as depth. 
 
Are there some weights where you want to draw FW? Sure, but there were some where you absolutely did not and that’s a big improvement.
 
As a coach that felt we’d get more kids out if we were in that semi-state over New Castle for a long time, I’ll admit I no longer believe that’s true. I think top end talent will always lag but there’s many more darn good kids up there than there used to be and it’s a testament to the coaches that have put in the time to drive it at schools like Delta, Rochester, Western, and Jay County all being teams that were frankly on par with any 3A team and most 4 A teams.
 
My team wrestled a tough schedule for the most part and finished 16-5 (far better than I though we’d do) and we still got blasted out of our shoes at individual tourneys by Western at the Kyle Osborn Invite and By Delta at the Mooresville Holiday Classic. It won’t be long before Shepherd lands another on top of the podium (Betz will be in the mix next season) or Lecount gets his first (Bollinger and Mosier both mighty close already and their MS team is nails too). Rochester did it last year and has the horses to land another there soon (did you see little Beck compete with Goin on Friday? And Horn will be in the mix too)
 
That’s just a few small schools to say nothing of the improvements Snider and Homestead have made as well, and I’m sure Carroll will bounce back soon. And I’m sure there are plenty of other programs seizing the day and making strides that I can’t speak on, but good on them.
 
To summarize, Ft Wayne has turned this once non-believer into a fan. And Indiana wrestling is better for it. Now I have to go get to work training my guys to be able to compete with and beat those teams and it’s gonna take all 300 days I have to to do it!

No slight meant

We don’t see Snider during season so I am not as familiar, but I did mention them during the 6th paragraph. 
 
But I understand you not reading my whole novel! The Panthers are certainly on the come up and Veazy is likely the biggest threat to win a title Ft. Wayne has (he’ll likely be the heavy favorite next season though the new weights will make it interesting, will he be 175 or 190? It probably doesn’t matter, but 182 essentially goes away)
 
Again, no slight meant!

I 100% agree. I was one of the loudest realignment advocates in the past because I felt like it was lopsided and didn’t see a path to evening it out without it.
 
However, in the past couple of seasons we’ve seen a massive step forward from the Ft. Wayne area in general as far as depth. 
 
Are there some weights where you want to draw FW? Sure, but there were some where you absolutely did not and that’s a big improvement.
 
As a coach that felt we’d get more kids out if we were in that semi-state over New Castle for a long time, I’ll admit I no longer believe that’s true. I think top end talent will always lag but there’s many more darn good kids up there than there used to be and it’s a testament to the coaches that have put in the time to drive it at schools like Delta, Rochester, Western, and Jay County all being teams that were frankly on par with any 3A team and most 4 A teams.
 
My team wrestled a tough schedule for the most part and finished 16-5 (far better than I though we’d do) and we still got blasted out of our shoes at individual tourneys by Western at the Kyle Osborn Invite and By Delta at the Mooresville Holiday Classic. It won’t be long before Shepherd lands another on top of the podium (Betz will be in the mix next season) or Lecount gets his first (Bollinger and Mosier both mighty close already and their MS team is nails too). Rochester did it last year and has the horses to land another there soon (did you see little Beck compete with Goin on Friday? And Horn will be in the mix too)
 
That’s just a few small schools to say nothing of the improvements Snider and Homestead have made as well, and I’m sure Carroll will bounce back soon. And I’m sure there are plenty of other programs seizing the day and making strides that I can’t speak on, but good on them.
 
To summarize, Ft Wayne has turned this once non-believer into a fan. And Indiana wrestling is better for it. Now I have to go get to work training my guys to be able to compete with and beat those teams and it’s gonna take all 300 days I have to to do it!

That is insane. I know Quinn and I have had this conversation before, but it seems like some realignment would be pertinent in that Regional.

New Castle Breakdown:
North Montgomery Regional: 18 qualifiers 
Pendleton Heights Regional: 15 qualifiers
Perry Meridian Regional: 16 qualifiers
Richmond Regional: 7 qualifiers
 
Interesting Notes:
-Cathedral qualified 6 of the 15 from Pendleton, no other team qualified more than 3 from that regional (Mt. Vernon)
-Between Warren Central (5) and Perry Meridian (4) you have 9 of the 16 from Perry Meridian's Regional
-New Castle had 3 of the 7 from Richmond, nobody else had more than 1.
-North Mont was split pretty evenly amongst Zionsville (4), Carmel (3), HSE (3), Westfield (3) to make up 13 of their 18.
 
 

That is insane. I know Quinn and I have had this conversation before, but it seems like some realignment would be pertinent in that Regional.

That is insane. I know Quinn and I have had this conversation before, but it seems like some realignment would be pertinent in that Regional.

Frankfort sectional sends 13 to State. 

First, I want say that I love reading the stats you all break down.  They are fun and interesting to see.  However, I want to add a stat that I find interesting also.  While Greenfield had no state qualifiers this year, we won Connersville for the first time ever, placed 3rd at team state (we had never been) and won the HHC for the third straight year (first time in school history).  The HHC includes very tough teams such as New Pal (2 qualifiers), New Castle (3), Mt Vernon (3), Delta (4), Yorktown (1) and Pendleton (1).  I'm not sure many teams have had that kind of success with no state qualifiers.  And, while I am very disappointed that we didn't have a state qualifier, I am extremely proud of my team.  They are just that, a team.  No way we do the things we did this year without these kids wrestling for each other.  I am a proud coach!

That is insane. I know Quinn and I have had this conversation before, but it seems like some realignment would be pertinent in that Regional.

Moorseville Sectional has 16 at state
Avon Sectional has 13
So the Moorseville Regional has 29 Kids in the state series
 
106 Dickman & Rioux 
113 Larocca, Ash & Haines
120 Hockaday, Bickel & Goss
126 Yeager & Haines
132 Buttler & Ison
138 Courtney and Schoeff
145 Kresja & Day
152 Stits & Eckels
160 Merrit & Hutchison
170 Clouser
182 Weems & Brewer
195 McConnell & Henry
220 Johnson & Watson
285 Schotts & Jones
 

Yes, Spencer Irick of HSE beating Andrew Davison (#1 in state and nationally ranked) was for sure the biggest one in recent history. Irick went on to place 3rd after getting 4th at Semi-State. Caught fire at the right time.

Another qualifier certainly needs added, probably two. I know that they want to try to drive up traffic at Indy Nats, but numbers are going to continue to be huge at the qualifiers as long as Indy Nats costs an arm and a leg AND they charge you to coach there. Really hard for me to push my athletes to attend a tourney that I don't want to attend as a coach due to their policies. I know I'm not alone in that camp.

I know there are some solid conferences around the state in addition to the HCC (and fully recognize that with Brownsburg and Avon going through Evansville and the rest New Castle that we get more bites at the apple, so to speak), but wanted to see if any other conference did the damage the HCC did.
 
At least one athlete at every weight qualified (with numerous ticket rounders at each weight as well). All 14 Conference Champs qualified for state this year and a total of 25 athletes across the board by my count (and I'm wrong a lot) including at least one qualifier from all 8 schools.
 
106- Dickman (BB) and Rioux (Avon)
113- Temples (WF), Haines (BB), and Frazier (ZV)
120- Hockaday (BB)
126- Ingalls (FISH) and Haines (BB)
132- Ison (BB)
138- Schoeff (Avon)
145- Day (BB) and O'Neil (WF)
152- Rooney (WF), Richardson (N), and Lang (HSE)
160- Wagner (ZV)
170- Wagner (HSE)
182- Brewer (BB) and Penola (ZV)
195- Henry (BB)
220- Hastings (N)
285- Smith (ZV), Jones (BB), Just (FC) and Burgett (HSE)
 
By team:
Brownsburg (9)
Zionsville (4)
HSE (3)
Westfield (3)
Noblesville (2)
Avon (2)
Fishers (1)
Franklin Central (1)
 
What other conferences had a heck of a post-season?
 
Congrats to all our HCC coaches. If you take a look at the brackets at New Castle and Evansville you'll see numerous athletes from these 8 schools in the ticket round as well! 

I know there are some solid conferences around the state in addition to the HCC (and fully recognize that with Brownsburg and Avon going through Evansville and the rest New Castle that we get more bites at the apple, so to speak), but wanted to see if any other conference did the damage the HCC did.
 
At least one athlete at every weight qualified (with numerous ticket rounders at each weight as well). All 14 Conference Champs qualified for state this year and a total of 25 athletes across the board by my count (and I'm wrong a lot) including at least one qualifier from all 8 schools.
 
106- Dickman (BB) and Rioux (Avon)
113- Temples (WF), Haines (BB), and Frazier (ZV)
120- Hockaday (BB)
126- Ingalls (FISH) and Haines (BB)
132- Ison (BB)
138- Schoeff (Avon)
145- Day (BB) and O'Neil (WF)
152- Rooney (WF), Richardson (N), and Lang (HSE)
160- Wagner (ZV)
170- Wagner (HSE)
182- Brewer (BB) and Penola (ZV)
195- Henry (BB)
220- Hastings (N)
285- Smith (ZV), Jones (BB), Just (FC) and Burgett (HSE)
 
By team:
Brownsburg (9)
Zionsville (4)
HSE (3)
Westfield (3)
Noblesville (2)
Avon (2)
Fishers (1)
Franklin Central (1)
 
What other conferences had a heck of a post-season?
 
Congrats to all our HCC coaches. If you take a look at the brackets at New Castle and Evansville you'll see numerous athletes from these 8 schools in the ticket round as well! 

Yes, Spencer Irick of HSE beating Andrew Davison (#1 in state and nationally ranked) was for sure the biggest one in recent history. Irick went on to place 3rd after getting 4th at Semi-State. Caught fire at the right time.

Yes, Spencer Irick of HSE beating Andrew Davison (#1 in state and nationally ranked) was for sure the biggest one in recent history. Irick went on to place 3rd after getting 4th at Semi-State. Caught fire at the right time.

I know there are some solid conferences around the state in addition to the HCC (and fully recognize that with Brownsburg and Avon going through Evansville and the rest New Castle that we get more bites at the apple, so to speak), but wanted to see if any other conference did the damage the HCC did.
 
At least one athlete at every weight qualified (with numerous ticket rounders at each weight as well). All 14 Conference Champs qualified for state this year and a total of 25 athletes across the board by my count (and I'm wrong a lot) including at least one qualifier from all 8 schools.
 
106- Dickman (BB) and Rioux (Avon)
113- Temples (WF), Haines (BB), and Frazier (ZV)
120- Hockaday (BB)
126- Ingalls (FISH) and Haines (BB)
132- Ison (BB)
138- Schoeff (Avon)
145- Day (BB) and O'Neil (WF)
152- Rooney (WF), Richardson (N), and Lang (HSE)
160- Wagner (ZV)
170- Wagner (HSE)
182- Brewer (BB) and Penola (ZV)
195- Henry (BB)
220- Hastings (N)
285- Smith (ZV), Jones (BB), Just (FC) and Burgett (HSE)
 
By team:
Brownsburg (9)
Zionsville (4)
HSE (3)
Westfield (3)
Noblesville (2)
Avon (2)
Fishers (1)
Franklin Central (1)
 
What other conferences had a heck of a post-season?
 
Congrats to all our HCC coaches. If you take a look at the brackets at New Castle and Evansville you'll see numerous athletes from these 8 schools in the ticket round as well! 

I know there are some solid conferences around the state in addition to the HCC (and fully recognize that with Brownsburg and Avon going through Evansville and the rest New Castle that we get more bites at the apple, so to speak), but wanted to see if any other conference did the damage the HCC did.
 
At least one athlete at every weight qualified (with numerous ticket rounders at each weight as well). All 14 Conference Champs qualified for state this year and a total of 25 athletes across the board by my count (and I'm wrong a lot) including at least one qualifier from all 8 schools.
 
106- Dickman (BB) and Rioux (Avon)
113- Temples (WF), Haines (BB), and Frazier (ZV)
120- Hockaday (BB)
126- Ingalls (FISH) and Haines (BB)
132- Ison (BB)
138- Schoeff (Avon)
145- Day (BB) and O'Neil (WF)
152- Rooney (WF), Richardson (N), and Lang (HSE)
160- Wagner (ZV)
170- Wagner (HSE)
182- Brewer (BB) and Penola (ZV)
195- Henry (BB)
220- Hastings (N)
285- Smith (ZV), Jones (BB), Just (FC) and Burgett (HSE)
 
By team:
Brownsburg (9)
Zionsville (4)
HSE (3)
Westfield (3)
Noblesville (2)
Avon (2)
Fishers (1)
Franklin Central (1)
 
What other conferences had a heck of a post-season?
 
Congrats to all our HCC coaches. If you take a look at the brackets at New Castle and Evansville you'll see numerous athletes from these 8 schools in the ticket round as well! 

Davison was #2 that year behind Blake Rypel (State #1 and National #2). That was the headline match of that weight class, but many were upset because they ended up in the same half bracket and would’ve been a semifinal match and not a finals match had Davison won.