piscis1956

8 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

LETS GET TO IT ! 
 

It’s bout time we see some Tech Falls in the 1st period regularly bases now in HS wrestling ! 
 

3 Point Takedowns ! Yeah 

 

 

Why not 15 point takedowns.  

Ft.Wayne native and Indiana St. alum David Eric Doster played baseball at New Haven High School and Indiana State University before playing 13 seasons of professional baseball.  He mostly played at the AAA level but also parts of two seasons at the major league level as well as playing some in the Japanese and Mexican leagues.  May be a stretch to list him above Larry Bird, Bruce Baumgartner, and Kurt Thomas though.  

On 3/28/2024 at 7:36 AM, Bulldog89 said:

Just to be clear Joe:

 

#1 Dave Doster

#2 Larry Bird

#3 Bruce Baumgartner

I think he is off topic just a bit, but bravo to you for a mention to former Major League Baseball player Dave Doster.  He’s not quite as famous as Larry Bird or Bruce Baumgartner … or even Kurt Thomas … but he did ISU proud.

Wow.

Other thread says Mooresville this year.

32 minutes ago, HeadLocksWinChampionships said:

I think the entire tournament should be single elimination. Sectional champs wrestle at Regionals, the winner goes to Semi State, the winner of Semi State goes to State, and the winner is the champ... SOLVED IT! We could probable do this in 3 weekends. 

When I was young that was the way it was … except without semi-states.  It took a bit more than 3 weekends though, because sectionals were large and took some week nights, too.

Oh, yes, now I remember who Perseverance was.  Good choice!

Perseverance?  I didn’t see that name nominated.  So I assume that name was included by special acclaim by IndianaMat management, especially since I am seeing 6 names instead of just 5.

1 minute ago, Galagore said:

 

So large schools also worry about not having a baseball team because the wrestlers are all focusing on wrestling instead of baseball (or ____ spring/fall sport)?

 

My son is an example I can use. He isn't "finding something else they (he) can be doing other than grinding." He is pitching and catching for the baseball team and working hard at it. He will actually be going in a week or two early to start work with the varsity baseball team before his middle school team practices fully begin. It's baseball season, so I owe it to him and the baseball team to allow him to give that season his full attention, just like he was able to give the wrestling season his full attention.

 

What are some of the benefits of wrestling for a small school?

It’s generally easier to make varsity at a small school I suppose.  You can participate in other sports and still make the wrestling team.

Not arguing your point, just offering a possible answer your last question.

12 minutes ago, Galagore said:

Everything you are saying is correct...however, at a small school, it is difficult in good conscience to truly push kids to wrestle to get better in the spring. They are busy making sure our baseball, softball, track, and golf teams are as competitive as possible. How would I feel if the baseball coach was leveraging the wrestlers to start tuning their arms up in January? It would p*@# me off. And of course big schools also share athletes. However, if the wrestlers at small schools focus on one sport, the other sports don't do poorly - they cease to exist. Small schools are playing a differnt game. That's why team sports are classed. There is no difference for individual sports. Everyone has to block another individual in football. Everyone has to mark another individual in soccer. You get where I am going here.

At some small schools, the best athletes often participate in 3 or even 4 sports … or even 5 sports. At my grandkids school, one girl was on the volleyball team, but ran cross-country on off-days.  I don’t remember now if she wax a basketball player or swimmer in the winter season.  However, in spring, she plays softball and then runs track on her off-days.

A boy in the same school is a running back in the fall, wrestler in winter, and baseball and track in spring. 
 

Yep, it is a different game.  

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Just work harder, if you put in the time during the off-season you are the bad draw and don't have to worry about losing.

The ticket round is a part of our culture and the most exciting round. Semi-state would be boring with wrestle-backs.

Life isn't fair, get over it.

 

Not sure how wrestlebacks would make it less exciting.  Even with wrestlebacks, there would be a “ticket round”.

That said, I agree that life surely isn’t fair.

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

 

If a kid wants to prove he's the best in a classed state he will prove it at events during the season such as Al Smith, Mooresville, and others, prove it at ISWA events, or go out and place high at national events. 

 

An individual kid doesn’t have much say in his team’s schedule, and I doubt too many schools make out their schedule with one kid in mind.   So I don’t think a kid can make the decision to “prove it” at Al Smith or other in season tournaments.  They can at out of season tournaments though.

8 hours ago, Zach Richards said:

I’m new to this website, so sorry for jumping on your dead horse

 

But just hear me out for a minute.
 

If you look at Indianamat’s Pound For Pound Rankings, the top 15 wrestlers in the state attend schools that are 4A or higher in football.

 

I believe there are 4 main factors to consider:

 

1. Coaching staff - A larger school is going to have more coaches.  It will most likely have higher quality coaches.  There’s a reason why the best football coaches are in the SEC and not coaching at Indiana State (no offense).
2. Enrollment - It’s simply a numbers game.  A larger school is going to have more student athletes.  And that leads to a more competitive wrestling room.  A 1A or 2A school might struggle just to fill its lineup while a 5A or 6A school has a wrestling room full of accomplished wrestlers.
3. Location - Let’s face it.  Smaller schools tend to be in more rural areas.  Take a look at a large school in the Indianapolis area.  How many highly competitive tournaments can a wrestler go to during the offseason within a 50 mile radius?  And then compare that to a small school in the middle of nowhere?  It’s just harder to get to the better tournaments, which make you a better wrestler.
4. Offseason Resources - Wrestling (much like many other sports today) has become a year-round commitment.  Larger schools have the resources to have a robust offseason program.  Wrestling club.  Youth program.  Tournament.  Etc.  But all of those things require volunteers.  The smaller schools struggle to be able to achieve these same results.

 

While I like the idea of wrestling being a sport where it’s just you against your opponent, then the size of your school doesn’t matter.  But at the end of the day, it really does matter. A 1A school will never be able to compete against a 6A school.

 

And just as a hypothetical, what is the worst that would happen if Indiana created 3 divisions?  There would be more state champs?  Smaller schools would have more to get excited about wrestling?

 

And what would be the downside?  That it would make a state championship less meaningful?  I don’t really think that is the case, because the most competitive programs and wrestlers are going to come from the biggest schools anyways.

I think it would make the sport more relevant throughout the state.

 

Ok, I’m done now.  Where do you guys want me to put this dead horse?

 

Zach, you’ve made a lot of good points for which many on this board agrees with you whole heartedly.  And then there are others who consider your stated opinions to be heresy.  And then there are others whose opinions vary at all levels in between.  This topic has been debated on IndianaMat ad nauseum, which is why all the comments about the dead horse.

I think you all need to cut Zach Richards some slack.  He apparently has never posted in IndianaMat before and probably was not aware of the hornet’s nest he was disturbing.  Well, I guess he knows now.

Unless of course he is just a troll who took out a new account just to stir the pot.  

3 hours ago, ARich said:

Yes he would be with 1st, 1st, Qualifier

then Carl Jackson 4th, 4th, Qualifier 

If this is high school only, then I think Muncie North’s David Butler may have only placed once.

However, he had quite an accomplished International Greco-Roman career.  
6th in 1986 World Championships

7th in 1989 World Championships

1st in 1987 Pan Am Games

2nd in 1991 Pan Am Games

1988 Summer Olympics Team USA

1 hour ago, GrecoCoach said:

Ohio originally.

Fishers/Noblesville area when he moved to Indiana.

Aha, so he too was a slightly north of center person.

On 2/28/2024 at 3:59 PM, ARich said:

Monroe Central

Hunter Page Q, Q, 6, X career record 148-18 (Only placer in program history) 3x Sectional Champ, 2x Regional Champ 

Logan Swallow Q, Q, X, X career record 141-20 (1st multi qualifier) Sectional Champ, Regional Champ, Semi-State Champ

 

Muncie Southside (David Palmer would be Delta's not Southsides)

Tony Abbott 1, Q, 2, X career record 128-13

Isiah Bradley 3, 1, 5, Q career record 150-16

Marc Foreman 1, Q, X, Q career record 112-16

 

Muncie Central 

William Duffy 1,1,1 

Richard Perkins 1,1,1 

Pete Lee 1, 2, X (Last Bearcat to finish in the top 4 1969)

 

I don’t think Jigger Smith of Muncie South ever won a state title, but wasn’t he state runner-up twice?

4 minutes ago, DawgPoundRed said:

Just because I don’t agree with your comment does not mean I hate you.

32 minutes ago, DawgPoundRed said:

REGION vs everyone ! Always has been, always will be #219#rebuildtheregion 

19 minutes ago, piscis1956 said:

Brownsburg is not “from the south” even though they are required to travel to Evansville for Semi-State.  Brownsburg is about as central Indiana as it gets.  In fact, Brownsburg is actually more north than south.

Likewise, New Castle is from central Indiana and in fact slightly north.  That is who FCFighter170 is usually touting.

Based on his posts, I would assume WrestlingScholar is from the north.

And of course General Heavy Handz and Regionrat1 are from the north. 
 

So if you are making this a north vs. south thing, then there are at least 6 from the north nominated.  (Don’t know where Grecoref was from.)

5 hours ago, DawgPoundRed said:

I'll get there CP isn't going any where for the next 20 years. 

 

The southern Indiana bias is crazy almost all of the "nominations" are from the south 

Bias here, bias in heartland duals and bias at state 

I think there was some controversy in CP getting a team point taken away which cost us a trophy 

Brownsburg is not “from the south” even though they are required to travel to Evansville for Semi-State.  Brownsburg is about as central Indiana as it gets.  In fact, Brownsburg is actually more north than south.

3 hours ago, ARich said:

Monroe Central

Hunter Page Q, Q, 6, X career record 148-18 (Only placer in program history) 3x Sectional Champ, 2x Regional Champ 

Logan Swallow Q, Q, X, X career record 141-20 (1st multi qualifier) Sectional Champ, Regional Champ, Semi-State Champ

 

Muncie Southside (David Palmer would be Delta's not Southsides)

Tony Abbott 1, Q, 2, X career record 128-13

Isiah Bradley 3, 1, 5, Q career record 150-16

Marc Foreman 1, Q, X, Q career record 112-16

 

Muncie Central 

William Duffy 1,1,1 

Richard Perkins 1,1,1 

Pete Lee 1, 2, X (Last Bearcat to finish in the top 4 1969)

 

I assume Muncie North would be Bud Palmer?

1 hour ago, Rugger44 said:

Where was Matt Whyde from?

You could be thinking of Kyle Nehring.

2003
Loss vs. Trevor Moe( Garrett) Dec 5-2 (Edit)
2004
Win vs. Kevin Zehr( Leo) Fall 2:56 (Edit)
Win vs. Patrick Rigdon( Boone Grove) Fall 4:40 (Edit)
Win vs. Sam Elmore( Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter) Dec 10-8 (Edit)
Loss vs. Heath VanDeventer( Bloomington North) Dec 5-1 (Edit)
2005
Win vs. Michael Burke( Yorktown) Fall 1:08 (Edit)
Win vs. Danny Goff( Zionsville) Dec 5-2 (Edit)
Win vs. Eric Jones( Peru) Fall 3:10 (Edit)
Win vs. Kenneth Caldwell( Union County) Dec 11-5 (Edit)

Fair enough.  I was obviously wrong.

1 hour ago, Rugger44 said:

I Counted 7 times they wrestled Bloomington North that year so he may have lost to someone else. Do you know who it would have been?

I believe it was a in-season loss to Matt Whyde, who he would later beat on Friday night at state on route to his runner-up finish.

1 hour ago, Rugger44 said:

Columbus North

Orrin Kleinhenz

Sophomore 189#  34-12  state Qualifier

Junior 189# 37-8 state runner up. All his losses this year came from Heath VanDeventer.

Senior 189# 49-0 State Champ.

 

Thadeus Douglas-The always under weight takedown machine. If they kept the 98# weight class I would be righting different stats down.

Senior 103#  3rd

Fargo Greco 7th

Fargo Greco 6th

 

Are you sure Orrin didn’t lose to one other wrestler his junior year?