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As the Ben Davis guy who has been around a long, long time I will try to give you a couple. Don't get me wrong, they sound like excuses and I don't like excuses much. And, none of this is personal, hopefully my comments aren't construed as being a shot at anyone. Some comments i won't make in this forum as it isn't the right forum. However, there is my list, top of my head. 1. Resources - many programs develop talent by charging their kids $ every month or kids go to a "pay to play" facility like CIA, Red Cobra, Contenders, etc... In a lot of cases, we have kids who can't afford shoes, the sport fee or don't even know where they are staying tonight. Now, add on the cost of a USA card, tournaments, etc... and that is money our families need to spend elsewhere. Sure, we fund raise, but you can't cover costs for 50+ kids in a youth program to develop them in wrestling the way we would like. By the way, very few of our kids have a great support system. I can't imagine, as a 16 year old kid trying to cut weight, get to a Saturday practice, pay for a sport fee, new shoes, etc... without any parental support 2. All of the BD families from my era and later have moved to Avon, Brownsburg, Plainfield, Danvile, etc... i.. And, no families move into Ben Davis. Everyone is heading out West over the last 15 years, ncluding my family. I know I have coached a dozen or so kids in Junior High that have gone on to be successful at the state level in other programs. Good for those families for getting themselves into what they see as better situations personally. 3. I think BD has a remarkable amount of kids that start as Sophomores and Juniors. Sounds great to have bodies in the room, but wrestling in the MIC, Marion County and the same Sectional as Avon (you), Brownsburg and Plainfield - 90- percent of the time these kids just can't compete with someone who has had 4+ years of experience get frustrated and quit. And, how hard is it to sell this story "If you bust your butt, give everything you can you might win half of your matches" and "to be the most competitive you can, you need to learn how to eat right and maybe watch what you eat a little". They can't because they don't have quality food in the house. 4. The sport has no "middle class" anymore, there are elite wrestlers and everyone else. We all know the sport is hard - if you are getting beat up all the time it isn't fun, if it isn't fun you quit (unless you are an idiot like me and wired differently). We have a lot of great kids in this state who do well nationally. So, I am a 3rd year kid who has grown up wrestling some of the many studs on the WestSide and Marion County and I get pounded every time, I get discouraged. I get discouraged and just don't love the sport the way I need to love it to get better - I could have been a good wrestler, not elite, but good, maybe a Semi-State or even a State qualifier, but I can't get out of sectionals. I tihnk it was 2 years ago at the Avon Sectional at 106, 3 of those kids placed in the top 7 at state and I believe 3 others from MIC and Marion County placed as well. 5. I can keep going, but will conclude with this... I would rather build better young men (as I am sure we all do). It has taken me a while to admit that winning isn't as important to me as making someone successful at life (and this statement in no way makes me think that the previous 2 statements are exclusive, I am a better person, employee, boss, etc.... for being a wrestler). At some point, we are trying to get kids to graduate because we are now their parents. I could throw in a bunch of stats, but they don't change the situation. I would love to be singled out in a post about our wrestling, not the lack of our wrestling, but that isn't where we are at right now. Don't misinterpret any of this, I want to beat everyone. I don't want to lose. but, spend a few months inside the program and you will see it isn't just a numbers game. For better or worse, I am BD wrestling - as are a group of guys that I am proud to coach along side who also fight the daily battle to keep this program together and moving forward. Brett Nabb BD 1987 and 20 years coaching wrestling in Wayne Township

Most parents would be disappointed, and I totally agree with DecBell on this one. It would discourage teams to just participate in Team State if they only have a 2 match guarantee. I think it discourages teams currently from getting a 3 match guarantee. Its comes off as arrogant and elitist to only have the top teams advance, because everybody knows the top teams who will likely win because wrestling is pretty damn predictable , especially when you have Maligned applying his logarithims to it. And its going to be the same blue blood teams who get all the coverage anyway. So the Brownsburgs, Avons, Cathedrals, WCs, EMDs and PMs get their press and coverage and limelight, and they dont want those other teams, that are not as well known, taking a little bit of the attention and lime light. KIeep in minds, theres different expectations out their for every team in the state. News for you MattyB, there's a bigger wrestling world out there. There's programs due to the socio- economic status, will not ever be a tier 1 team. But these programs have goals that are different than Avon's and Brownsbug's. These programs love taking their long shot at the big teams, but they know the odds are stacked against them. But they also know that, maybe placing top 8 or top 10 or even winning a match at team state would be big deal. Maybe they cant beat a top 5 team, but they have a legit shot against a top 20 team. And when you funnel down the bracket, the matches at the top get competitive, the 7th and 8th place match is also just as competitive and 11th and 12th place could be a dynamite dual as DecBell mentioned. It comes down to expectations, it would be a big downer for Avon to wrestle in the 11th place match if that happened. But, for a team that gets that rare shot to qualify for state, they want to enjoy that moment as much as they can and prove that they can wrestle. Besides, if it was any other weekend, having two top 20 wrestle would be a big thing. Last year, my sons former high school team made it to team state. They normally don't go and they new they had a 0% chance of winning it as they were unseeded. But they got there and enjoyed the 3 matches and actually won one, and were really disappointed they didn't get their 4th match. They brought a big crowd and got hotel rooms in FW and were into it. And most of all, they were extremely disappointed at not getting a shot at wrestling a team in their bracket affiliated with an administrator on Indianamat that had made some funny and extremely colorful posts about them on Indianamat. They could of had a shot if they would wrestled the 11th or 9th place match, and it would of been a great matchup and very good dual (IMO).

Great attitude...our state series should be single elimination also, just win or don't waste my time with the losers.

Wow...super insightful response. Really interesting how the urban sprawl has led to a "trickling out" effect in Marion County. I already knew that the majority of the families that would have been IPS families now send their kids to County schools. It's well-documented that many families living in the IPS boundaries tend to be lower income. The result for county schools of receiving these families' kids, if I may read between the lines, is that they are maybe dealing with a greater percentage of kids coming from economic difficulty. At the same time the suburban schools like an Avon, Carmel, or Fishers of the world, are perceived to be "better" by traditional Marion County district families and they become the recipients of some of those schools' prior attendees moving further out (and probably in many cases, the families that have means and networks to move further out are also the ones that have money to pay for the clubs and travel events). Very interesting dynamic that I wouldn't have thought of because of how different it was 20 years ago.

Let me first say I in no way am putting down anybody in particular or acting like I’m the role model cause I’m the furthest from perfect, but I really think coaches need to take a step back and look in the mirror and realize our wrestlers watch our lives more than they listen to our words. I’ve been blessed at Plymouth to coach with coaches that in many years have impacted hundreds of lives. I’ve never heard a foul word out of their mouth nor is any wrestler aloud to use profanity. Their goal is always create young men of integrity first and champions in life then champions on the mat. I’m amazed when I see and hear coaches and athletes cuss back and forth.....see wrestlers yell at refs.....throw things in anger and nothing is done. On a positive I’ve watched people I respect and look up to like coach Snyder get in wrestlers faces yet put his arm around them and build them up....coach Harper from little kids to high schoolers speak life into his kids yet in their face. I don’t know a man in the world that loves winning more than coach Read or a man that hates to lose more than him but you ask anyone that’s gone through his program in 30 plus years and you will hear nothing but the utmost respect because of the integrity he walks in. Coaches your integrity is the most 8mportant part of your job with the kids we have in front of us. Impact lives. As our coach always says....”Do the right thing simply because it’s the right thing to do”. Your reputation is what others think of you but your character is what people see and you really are. It’s time coaches we lead from the front!

You obviously aren’t understanding the discussion here or the parameters in place

Pretty sure you are talking about our wrestler and no he isn’t ranked. Probably should be though. We don’t coach dirt. We coach intensity. Sorry your son was undefeated until he wrestled our kid but I saw absolutely nothing illegal. I never saw a choke. Now the punch your coach complained about was a cross face that didn’t work because your sons face was planted too hard on the mat. I can understand the complaint from your coach but he verbally berated the ref. You don’t get anywhere doing that. That was normal wrestling at that level.

I really hate the fact that a few bad apples are going to ruin the whole batch. I personally like to hear the whistles, crowd, and the coaches during the broadcast. And.. sometimes you get some really knowledgeable table help that say some good stuff. I think that doing away with sound takes away from the broadcast. I really would encourage that you tape a reminder to each table to remind them to watch what they say, before the tournament is muted.

Thankfully the IHSAA and most coaches around the state don’t give two cents about whether you sleep at night. High school athletics aren’t for you enjoyment. They’re for the student athlete

Just curious, did your kid go through concussion protocol? You mentioned he passed out and had a headache after the match, but wrestled again. Both of those are concussion symptoms. I hope somebody at least checked him out. Maybe another learning moment here.

DAC 106 #6 Stephen Roberson-CP #8 Malik Hall-Merr SS#8 Johny Cortez-LC 113 #1 Jacob Moran-Portage #6 Martin Cruz-Merr #14 Chris Merrill-Ches SS#5 Chris Tattini-CP 120 #3 Riley Bettich-CP #12 Danny Tolin-Ches #14 Ty Haskin-Portage 126 #1 Jesse Mendez-CP #5 Brock Peele-Portage SS#7 Juan Maldonado-Merr 132 #11 Ricky Hegedus-Portage SS#7 Ethan Kaiser 138 SS#3 Christian Ponce-LC SS#4 Tyson Nisley-LaPorte SS#6 Cade Johnson-Ches SS#8 Anthony Rivera-Merr 145 #8 Jake Burford-CP #14 Jacob Maldonado-Merr #16 Daniel Park-LC 152 #8 Brock Ellis-Ches SS#4 Jacob Beehn-Portage SS#6 Noah Hollendoner-CP 160 #1 Donnell Washington-Portage SS#6 Nick Taborski-CP 170 SS#5 Colin Kwiatkowski-Valpo SS#6 Jason Streck-Merr SS#7 Josh Warmick-Portage 182 #5 Evan Bates-Ches SS#5 Noah Perez-LaPorte SS#6 Khris Walton-Merr 195 #14 Seyi Akinwami-Merr SS#3 Ethan Potosky-CP 220 #13 Drew Bailey-Merr SS#6 John Wilcher-MC 285 #3 Anthony Atria-Merr SS#6 Nick Garcia-LC

MIC Conference: Ben Davis Carmel Center Grove Lawrence Central Lawrence North Pike Warren Central North Central 106 #4 Suhas Chundi #9 Carleton Perry #12 Logan Carrender 113 #3 David Pierson #7 Hayden Watson #15 Antonio Jefferson 120 #1 Brayden Littell #9 Chris Stewart 126 #14 Jevian Ross 132 #8 Kyle Holman 138 #11 Jarred Rowlett #14 Diesel Duncan 145 #5 Antwaun Graves 152 #4 Brice Coleman 160 #6 Payton Pruett #13 Aaron Taylor 170 #5 Logan Hart 182 #9 Cameron Bacon #16 Devontay Moore 195-N/A 220-N/A 285 #1 Jamichael Watts #6 Muhammad Sidibe #12 Darrione Gregory

Quantity might not matter for Avon at 3A, but it sure makes a heckuva difference in 1A and 2A. Even though these are the best of the small schools, there are still many wrestlers there that would benefit from more matches, rather than quality.

Crap ...... and it Begins ! Woooo.... Bang ! Bang ! Bang! Pistol Pete

Nope, we should only care about the champions. Let's have team state be single elimination, you lose, go home you can't run with the big dawgs. We could make it a 4 round day instead of 6 with single elimination.

Can you point me to the thread that talks about which teams declined an invitation? Nothing against Northridge but teams like Merrilville, FW Carrol, C. Grove, Chesterton, Crown Point could have made for some better matchups. Same with Oak Hill and Culver in 2A. Not complaining just curious.

Moran 19th at 113 Littell 19th at 120 Asa 17th at 132 Washington 18th at 160 South 18th at 170 Brewer 16th at 182 Silas 6th at 195 Andrew Irick 20th at 220 (New to rankings!!!) Super proud of this kid!

Things didn't go Mater Dei's way this weekend, but I don't think it's fair to be disappointed and they have holes that were known about going in. In the WC match, they had two big swings.... The first was when they inserted Fitts at 152 and bumped Dickens up to 160. The DQ by Fitts gave WC 6 pts (1 later deducted) and cost MD the 3 team points gained from Matt Lee's match. That's an 8 pt swing and could have been an 11 pt swing had Fitts come back to win. He was only down 2-0 and had ridden Coleman the whole 2nd period. Not only was that a huge swing, but it seemed to take the wind out of their sails somewhat. The other was the Baumann - Pierson match. They were locked in a tight battle tied at 2 and Baumann was holding his own and attacking more. Pierson caught him and flipped him to his back when they were tied up, giving WC a 6 pt win. Pierson did the same to Cole Ross last year at State on Friday night. Kudos to him for great moves. But I wouldn't bet on it happening to either guy again. So in a match MD had a solid chance at winning or at the least losing a decision, it turned into a -6. I get it. You have to wrestle all three periods and that's why we wrestle the actual matches because these things happen. But those were two momentum swings that could have easily gone MD's way and the whole outcome could have changed. MD's biggest issue is with their upper weights. They are simply outmanned from 195-285 and at times at 182 as well. From 182-220, all of these guMys could qualify to wrestle at least one class down. I believed their 220 in Michigan weighed in at 192. They just aren't able to hold up to the pounding from the bigger guys even when they are able to put up a good fight. I believe their experience level is very low as well. Not an excuse, but it is what it is, and you know that going in. Personally, I felt like their #2 ranking was a bit high due to just that. But they have some studs and are deep. Alec Freeman went 4-0 on the day beating 2 ranked wrestlers #s 4 & 9 Brody Baumann, their JV (albeit he's very good) got indoctrinated facing the #s 1, 2 & 3 ranked wrestlers. Not sure on the health of Cole Ross and when he is expected back. Blake Boarman goes 4-0 The Egli brothers went a combined 3-5, losing all 5 to ranked wrestlers. Blaine Mayer won 3 of 4, losing only a 5-3 decision in a match he had to have a fall for his team to win. Matt Lee goes 4-0 beating #s 3 & 5 Eli Dickens goes 4-0 and beats #1 Rodgers Macartney Parkinson went 4-0 with 3 falls and a win over higher ranked Logan Hart. There was a lot of good for the Wildcats this weekend. Just not enough to overcome the swings against WC to get to the final.

Yeah it was a mess. The kid actually tried choking him 5 times. At that particular time my son said he blacked out for a second he don’t remember any of that. It was pretty sad that parents from other schools was yelling at the ref and that kid. When we was in the bleachers and can see his face changing colors but the ref doesn’t notice it is a big problem not to mention everyone in that area was yelling at him trying to get his attention. Then he punched him. Some guy that we don’t even know said he would’ve crossed faced that kids nose off if it was him. Yes he wrestled his next match it was his last match of the day. He said he felt fine just had a headache and a black eye. My son does wrestle year round and plays football. Yes i agree most refs do a really good job. I’m not sure what was going on with this ref we’ve had him many of times and never had any issues that I can recall.

That almost sounds too amazing to true. So a kid choked your kid which is illegal, and ref didn't see it. Ok, possible. Then more obviously, ref doesn't see a fist punch to the eye, which is flagrant misconduct. How did the ref miss that? Then you're kid blacks out and ref doesn't stop it (which he should of) and you're kid doesn't get pinned while being blacked out? How does that work? Just curious, did you let your kid wrestle any more matches after that match? I'm going contrarian to this post. I think compared to when I wrestled 30 years ago, there's a lot less dirty/shady unsportmanslike crap going on now as compared to then.. I remember guys used to do nasty stuff back in the day. I wrestled in a different state, and maybe my perception is off, but there was some physical crap going on back then. I think referees do a great job of cleaning up the dirty stuff most of the time now and step in when it gets chippy, and there are a lot more moves that are illegal now that used not to be. I know the top wresters are physical (not dirty), and that can be tough. The real reason wrestling participation is lower is due to sports specialization. Most kids only play one sport and they participate in the off season in that sport. Everybody played multiple sports back in the day and didn't have the pressure to participate year round. And we were better off for it. The top kids wrestle year round, don't play football, track or cross country anymore. So the problem is that the top kids are so far ahead of the multi-sport athletes, it discourages the multi sport athlete as there chanced of success is lower. Also, the other sports are going year round, and are pressuring kids to not wrestle in the winter and play the sport year round. Its a cannabilizing cycle. Wrestling is not the only sport with lower participation problems.

Seating, locker rooms, and cost. Seating is limited, we are looking into renting bleachers, but that just adds to an already pricey venue. The locker room situation isn't ideal, but supposedly they are are adding more locker rooms to the venue before then. I'll keep everyone posted, willing to be as transparent as possible. As to promoting the event, I thought this website did a great job promoting and communicating info for it. We have a IHSWCA Facebook page that cranks out promotions and info. We don't have a Twitter, but should and will soon. Again, opinions, advice and suggestions are welcome.

Back on topic. This should be a reminder to those working the table at streamed events that the mic is usually on and be aware of what you are saying throughout the day.

You could probably go through the rankings and count yourself.

I can’t stand the hard push after they are out of bounds. I really really hate the face raking. Makes me immediately dislike the wrestler. It is just dirty. If a coach coaches that they should quit.

I say we add wild cards. Pick up a couple super studs and tell the kids that has been wrestling all year sorry you’re just not good enough we found someone to take your spot.