How is 197 seeded?

[BrodyHardcastle]

27 minutes ago, maligned said:

I really don't like their bias toward win% and policy of blind disregard for previous seasons such as at 285. Parris-Cassioppi-Kerkvliet were clearly ahead of Hendrickson last year, those guys lose no matches except to each other, but Hendrickson jumps 2 of them because of a crap schedule other than getting controlled by Parris once.

I am not really a fan of using prior seasons to seed weights but you're right in some instances it's probably necessary. 184 is another weight that idea could be used. Brooks has never lost to Keckeisen or Hidlay but since Brooks took a loss to Coleman and the other two have wins they get the nod. Brooks also beat Keckeisen at the All-Star Classic but that also can't be used for seeding.

[BrodyHardcastle]

4 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

Clearly the talk on this board of Mendez being a 4xer after he beat Byrd was way premature.  I'm a little surprised he is that low.  A 2nd round match up with Vito isn't ideal.  I'd be surprised if he wins that one.  Then he will have a tough road coming back through the consolations to get on the podium.  He's obviously talented enough to get on the podium, but he picked a bad time to have a bad tournament at the Big 10's.  

Looking like if it plays out right, Mendez will most likely wrestle Nagao again, this time in the bloodround.

[ReformedPoster]

1 hour ago, bigballerb said:

Looking like if it plays out right, Mendez will most likely wrestle Nagao again, this time in the bloodround.

I think Mendez wins that rematch

[RAJR]

14 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

I think Mendez wins that rematch

I think so as well. IMO, if the B1G match was officiated like the finals (i.e. quicker stalemates & stall calls) or Mendez doesn't choose down, I think he would have won that one. 

[BrodyHardcastle]

37 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

I think Mendez wins that rematch

 

19 minutes ago, RAJR said:

I think so as well. IMO, if the B1G match was officiated like the finals (i.e. quicker stalemates & stall calls) or Mendez doesn't choose down, I think he would have won that one. 

I hope so, besides Jesse’s body lock in the opening 30 seconds he didn’t score a point. He had some beautiful attacks that he absolutely has to score on in the rematch. Nagao can ride like no other and showed that against Jesse and RBY. 

[SIACfan]

I have no doubt that Jesse has the skills to become an AA as a freshman, but his performance at the B1G's certainly made it a more difficult task. With a win in the 1st rd he will then face Vito. I won't be shocked if he gets an upset here, but it would most definitely be an upset. If he loses to Vito, his margin for error to get to the podium will be slim to none.

 

Also, It is true that the B1G is not getting much respect at 133, but this might just be the toughest/deepest weight class in college wrestling. Just in the B1G you have RBY, Byrd, Cannon, Nagao, Mendez, Ragusin. And outside of it you have Fix, Vito, Latona, McGee, Orine, Phillippi, Colaiocco. There are some other weights that are just as tough at the top, but are there any that are that tough 13 wrestlers deep?

[SIACfan]

I also agree that the lack of respect for the B1G at 197 is unjustified.

 

But even though the B1G got 3 of the top 4 at 285 it might still a bigger slight. Cassioppi & Kerkvliet are both clearly better than Hendrickson IMO, and I suspect Davison is better as well.

[beaner2]

15 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

If he loses to Vito, his margin for error to get to the podium will be slim to none.

 He would need a Nick Lee type of run when Lee lost 1st rd a few years ago and battled back through the consos to get 5th.  That would be quite a tall order.

[BrodyHardcastle]

15 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

I also agree that the lack of respect for the B1G at 197 is unjustified.

Referring to mostly Silas and Dean? or the Big Ten in general?

[maligned]

12 minutes ago, beaner2 said:

 He would need a Nick Lee type of run when Lee lost 1st rd a few years ago and battled back through the consos to get 5th.  That would be quite a tall order.

 

31 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

If he loses to Vito, his margin for error to get to the podium will be slim to none.

I'm not sure it's quite as dire as that. If he wins first round, then loses to Vito, his most likely scenario for the 3 wins he'd need would be 

 

Consi R2: Someone seeded below him

Consi R3: Someone seeded near him

Blood round: Someone seeded in the 5-8 range

 

Until Big 10s, no one would have thought he couldn't win that run of 3 matches. It would be a tall order, but a path will be there for him.

Edited March 9, 2023 by maligned

[SIACfan]

4 hours ago, maligned said:

 

I'm not sure it's quite as dire as that. If he wins first round, then loses to Vito, his most likely scenario for the 3 wins he'd need would be 

 

Consi R2: Someone seeded below him

Consi R3: Someone seeded near him

Blood round: Someone seeded in the 5-8 range

 

Until Big 10s, no one would have thought he couldn't win that run of 3 matches. It would be a tall order, but a path will be there for him.

 

It's all in how you take what I said. "It would be a tall order" & "his margin for error to get to the podium will be slim to none" is basically saying the same thing to me.

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that his chances of doing it are slim to none. Just that it will be a difficult task.

 

[maligned]

19 hours ago, bigballerb said:

I am not really a fan of using prior seasons to seed weights but you're right in some instances it's probably necessary. 184 is another weight that idea could be used. Brooks has never lost to Keckeisen or Hidlay but since Brooks took a loss to Coleman and the other two have wins they get the nod. Brooks also beat Keckeisen at the All-Star Classic but that also can't be used for seeding.

The situation at 184 is slightly different than at 285. At heavyweight you have a clear 1-2-3 based on previous seasons, none of them lose outside that top 3 and therefore no change in quality has been suggested--and then a guy that was far outside that top 3 last year wrestles nobody and gets moved ahead of them. When Brooks loses a match to someone further down the pecking order at 184, it has to mean something and you're at the mercy of the jury. He loses to Coleman, who lost to Munoz and Keckeisen. It's a logic puzzle. Keckeisen/Hidlay split and are undefeated otherwise. Keckeisen over Coleman twice who beat Brooks. The blind logic puzzle says Keckeisen's seeded over Brooks. I can live with it.

 

However, as a separate issue, you're right that the fact that we have to pretend we didn't watch Brooks/Keckeisen during the season is quite counterintuitive.

Edited March 10, 2023 by maligned

[SWINfan]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:19 PM, maligned said:

 

I'm not sure it's quite as dire as that. If he wins first round, then loses to Vito, his most likely scenario for the 3 wins he'd need would be 

 

Consi R2: Someone seeded below him

Consi R3: Someone seeded near him

Blood round: Someone seeded in the 5-8 range

 

Until Big 10s, no one would have thought he couldn't win that run of 3 matches. It would be a tall order, but a path will be there for him.

Did the seeds change?  Vito is on the opposite side of the bracket.  McGhee is his 2nd round opponent.

[RAJR]

38 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

Did the seeds change?  Vito is on the opposite side of the bracket.  McGhee is his 2nd round opponent.

You referring to 133?  If so McGonagol is out. Jesse Mendez moved to the 13 seed so moved away from Vito.

[SWINfan]

30 minutes ago, RAJR said:

You referring to 133?  If so McGonagol is out. Jesse Mendez moved to the 13 seed so moved away from Vito.

That makes sense, thanks

[UncleJimmy]

Looked like a d’Emilio take down vs woods, no?

[ReformedPoster]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:39 PM, ReformedPoster said:

I think Mendez wins that rematch

Well, I was wrong.  Nagao used a TD and a riding time point to earn a 4-0 win over Mendez in the 5th place bout.

[SIACfan]

50 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

Well, I was wrong.  Nagao used a TD and a riding time point to earn a 4-0 win over Mendez in the 5th place bout.

There is a good chance this won't be the last match between these two.

[ReformedPoster]

1 minute ago, SIACfan said:

There is a good chance this won't be the last match between these two.

definitely not

[Disco]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:01 PM, SIACfan said:

I also agree that the lack of respect for the B1G at 197 is unjustified.

 

But even though the B1G got 3 of the top 4 at 285 it might still a bigger slight. Cassioppi & Kerkvliet are both clearly better than Hendrickson IMO, and I suspect Davison is better as well.

You were right about 197, and they even pitted Allred and Dean against each other rather quickly with their seeding fiasco.  

[maligned]

13 hours ago, Disco said:

You were right about 197, and they even pitted Allred and Dean against each other rather quickly with their seeding fiasco.  

Looking back, all of the top 10 were so close to each other. It was probably seeded the most logical way it could have been. No big 10 guys had wins against the top 7 seeds. Silas had 3 convincing losses to that group, including twice to #7 seed Sloan. Dean lost to two of that group also. It's true that two of the Big 10's 8-10 seeds ended up 5th and 7th. But the 7-seed Sloan was seeded very logically because of his several losses to people above him and wins over Silas below him. And he ends up 2nd. So was he "disrespected"? And Silas was Big 10 champ and doesn't AA. Seems like they did ok within their strict rules of using only current season data.