Potential Big Changes in Indiana Wrestling

[AndyStJ]

14 minutes ago, ILUV2PIN said:

Altruistic of you to think that way.... but I just don't think that is the reality of wrestling in Indiana. Let's take it back to my time in high school (2007-2011). The tops dogs were still the big schools: Mishawaka, Crown Point, Perry Meridian, Warren Central, Lawrence North, etc.. A few small (public, sorry EMD) schools had some solid success (Bellmont, Yorktown) but nothing on the level of those big dogs. Just my 2 cents.

According to Google, Mishawaka has a school population of 1492. Not a small rural school, but not one of the big boys. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

So there's really no changes!!!!!!!  And that's a clickbait title!!   and this really is just the beginning post for the annual class wrestling debate.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Wrestling Scholar

[Galagore]

It's not a real class wrestling debate until @UncleJimmy takes a least jab at the class side.

[ILUV2PIN]

8 minutes ago, AndyStJ said:

According to Google, Mishawaka has a school population of 1492. Not a small rural school, but not one of the big boys. 

Still not a small school by any stretch of the imagination. I'll  throw in their crosstown rivals, the Penn Kingsmen, who also won a title not long ago. Another large school..  

Edited March 2, 2023 by ILUV2PIN

[RHendricks9]

33 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Now do North Vermillion vs. Brownsburg

North Vermillion head coach: Robby Davis, 2x regional qualifier. Brownsburg head coach: Darrick Snyder, state placer and D3 national qualifier. Coaches are not always limited by their own success but their track record especially when one coach has 18 years more head coaching experience. There also is not many RTCs or other wrestling training facilities nearby to Vermillion County but I believed there will be as Indiana and even Illinois wrestling continue to grow. 

[GenHeavyHandz]

25 minutes ago, ILUV2PIN said:

Altruistic of you to think that way.... but I just don't think that is the reality of wrestling in Indiana. Let's take it back to my time in high school (2007-2011). The tops dogs were still the big schools: Mishawaka, Crown Point, Perry Meridian, Warren Central, Lawrence North, etc.. A few small (public, sorry EMD) schools had some solid success (Bellmont, Yorktown) but nothing on the level of those big dogs. Just my 2 cents.

Mishawaka is a Medium sized school.

[Silence Dogood]

59 minutes ago, Thor said:

Perfect way to put it, and it hit me hard this year. I really want South Adams to have a state champ at some point in time, but I have no clue how a kid from our school is going to compete with kids from Brownsburg, Center Grove, and Crown Point, or any other schools like them. 

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

[RHendricks9]

26 minutes ago, ILUV2PIN said:

Altruistic of you to think that way.... but I just don't think that is the reality of wrestling in Indiana. Let's take it back to my time in high school (2007-2011). The tops dogs were still the big schools: Mishawaka, Crown Point, Perry Meridian, Warren Central, Lawrence North, etc.. A few small (public, sorry EMD) schools had some solid success (Bellmont, Yorktown) but nothing on the level of those big dogs. Just my 2 cents.

It is true that powerhouses change which is why I believe it would be best to build the state tournament in a common sensical manner instead of sending teams unnecessary distances as I referenced earlier. 

[Galagore]

5 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

 

Around here, if you wrestle all year round, other sports suffer considerably.

[RHendricks9]

5 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

I don’t know the exact number but I know for a fact at least 3 state champions are multi-sport athletes so they would not be wrestling all year round

[Silence Dogood]

Just now, Galagore said:

 

Around here, if you wrestle all year round, other sports suffer considerably.

I don't disagree. But I don't think that's a reason that the individual state wrestling tournament should be classed based on school size. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

6 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

AKA- "They need to try harder"

[Silence Dogood]

1 minute ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

AKA- "They need to try harder"

 

Pretty much. The individual state championships are not being arbitrarily handed out based on the size of the school you attend. 

 

[Thor]

13 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

Which is near impossible at South Adams. Our cross country team is mostly wrestlers, half our starters in football are wrestlers, and then a lot of those same guys make up a solid track program. Even in our middle school and youth, our best wrestlers are the best football players and runners through like 5th grade. These kids aren't just going to drop everything and wrestle, which would also decimate our other sports. 

[Millertime81]

3 minutes ago, Galagore said:

 

Around here, if you wrestle all year round, other sports suffer considerably.

This is true, but the wrestler has to ask themselves what is important to them.  This is also why you see kids moving school districts to chase their dreams and have more practice partners and better people to wrestle with.  I personally think this teaches kids a good lesson in life on what it takes to get to where you want to be in life.  Just going through life and following what you think is a "have to" may only get you so much.  Reach out and get those goals and strive for what you want.  It takes doing more or stepping out of your comfort zone sometimes to make you realize this.  Yes other sports may suffer from this, but are you doing what your doing for the school or your self goals?  These are all things that kids are realizing now.

[Silence Dogood]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

Which is near impossible at South Adams. Our cross country team is mostly wrestlers, half our starters in football are wrestlers, and then a lot of those same guys make up a solid track program. Even in our middle school and youth, our best wrestlers are the best football players and runners through like 5th grade. These kids aren't just going to drop everything and wrestle, which would also decimate our other sports. 

Like I said above, I don't disagree. But I don't think that's a reason to class the individual state wrestling tournament  based on school size. 

[RHendricks9]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

Which is near impossible at South Adams. Our cross country team is mostly wrestlers, half our starters in football are wrestlers, and then a lot of those same guys make up a solid track program. Even in our middle school and youth, our best wrestlers are the best football players and runners through like 5th grade. These kids aren't just going to drop everything and wrestle, which would also decimate our other sports. 

The best linebacker (John Purdy) and best running back (Luke Hansen) were both state placers. You don’t have to be a single sport athlete to be successful

[casualwrestlingfan]

45 minutes ago, Thor said:

A few points. 

1. Fishers has been a school for about 15 years, horrible data point going against a school going back 50

2. Ben Davis and North Central have way more placers than AC does. All three schools have more champs. If AC is such a strong program, why do they only have one champ?

3. AC goes through Fort Wayne, one of the easier semi states to only qualify out of in recent history

 

AC has a great wrestling culture, their kids put the work in and they have most of the best athletes in the school still do wrestling. But most of them are still two and three sport athletes don't have multiple kids their same level and weight range in the room. The only thing AC can't claim anymore is that they don't have to travel extensivley for RTCs now with Madman Wrestling, Indiana Tech RTC, and The Fort Wrestling all being close. 

Don't forget AC is usually still playing football while many other schools have had a week or many more of practice in wrestling on a yearly basis. Major disadvantage to get to wrestling shape as well as scheduling. 

 

12 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

 

For a start, they would need to wrestle all year round like the kids that are winning state at the schools you mentioned.

 

That has a higher chance of happening at Bellmont than South Adams or Adams Central due to enrollment and fielding teams for fall & spring sports. I know Bellmont is in a semi rebuild mode instead of their reload mode, but with the more practice time in early fall than the other 2 mentioned, they haven't had a champ since Billy. Yeah Ike made 2 finals recently, but even Bellmont is struggling vs the large schools like Brownsburg, Center Grove, and Crown Point. 

 

Of course Carroll FW licks their chops to go after AC as well as SA & Bellmont. Heck their alumni go to Ohio and do the same to a new program bordering 2 of the 3 Adams County schools. 

[RHendricks9]

Just now, RHendricks9 said:

The best linebacker (John Purdy) and best running back (Luke Hansen) were both state placers. You don’t have to be a single sport athlete to be successful

Plus a lineman going to Iowa which is a HUGE accomplishment and indicates a big commitment to football to get to that level

[Y2CJ41]

22 minutes ago, GenHeavyHandz said:

Mishawaka is a Medium sized school.

Mishawaka is the 56th biggest school in the state. For wrestling the average school size is 967 students, Mishawaka has 1400 which is way more than medium.

[Y2CJ41]

6 minutes ago, Millertime81 said:

This is true, but the wrestler has to ask themselves what is important to them.  This is also why you see kids moving school districts to chase their dreams and have more practice partners and better people to wrestle with.  I personally think this teaches kids a good lesson in life on what it takes to get to where you want to be in life.  Just going through life and following what you think is a "have to" may only get you so much.  Reach out and get those goals and strive for what you want.  It takes doing more or stepping out of your comfort zone sometimes to make you realize this.  Yes other sports may suffer from this, but are you doing what your doing for the school or your self goals?  These are all things that kids are realizing now.

So what you are saying is you are fine with small schools suffering and that's "life." 

[Y2CJ41]

3 minutes ago, RHendricks9 said:

Plus a lineman going to Iowa which is a HUGE accomplishment and indicates a big commitment to football to get to that level

So you're saying an ELITE athlete can be good at multiple sports? Wow, this is a groundbreaking conversation we are having.

[Thor]

8 minutes ago, Millertime81 said:

This is true, but the wrestler has to ask themselves what is important to them.  This is also why you see kids moving school districts to chase their dreams and have more practice partners and better people to wrestle with.  I personally think this teaches kids a good lesson in life on what it takes to get to where you want to be in life.  Just going through life and following what you think is a "have to" may only get you so much.  Reach out and get those goals and strive for what you want.  It takes doing more or stepping out of your comfort zone sometimes to make you realize this.  Yes other sports may suffer from this, but are you doing what your doing for the school or your self goals?  These are all things that kids are realizing now.

Good on the wrestler and all, but if a small school continually has good kids leave for a bigger program, then are we just ok with small programs dying out?

[GenHeavyHandz]

1 minute ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Mishawaka is the 56th biggest school in the state. For wrestling the average school size is 967 students, Mishawaka has 1400 which is way more than medium.

I just wanted someone to argue with me. Thanks. Slow week. Perspective: I graduated with 469 people. We had 1800 students. I think Snider still does. They are medium to me. But hey make'em as big as you like when we beat them at state I'll be be able to say we beat a school 2/3 our size.

[Galagore]

10 minutes ago, Millertime81 said:

This is true, but the wrestler has to ask themselves what is important to them.  This is also why you see kids moving school districts to chase their dreams and have more practice partners and better people to wrestle with.  I personally think this teaches kids a good lesson in life on what it takes to get to where you want to be in life.  Just going through life and following what you think is a "have to" may only get you so much.  Reach out and get those goals and strive for what you want.  It takes doing more or stepping out of your comfort zone sometimes to make you realize this.  Yes other sports may suffer from this, but are you doing what your doing for the school or your self goals?  These are all things that kids are realizing now.

 

It is also important to be part of a community and contribute to the greater good. Again, it isn't a matter of other sports not being very good. If even a half dozen kids don't go out for a given sport, that sport could very easily cease to exist.