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Indiana U. ‘22-‘23


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On 7/28/2022 at 8:50 PM, MattM said:

Don’t see Tsirtsis currently listed on the IU staff. Has he moved on to another DI assistant roll?  Maybe moved back home to help run RWA? Just IU not getting something updated correctly. 

 

 

Also does IU have a clear 133 for next year?  I noticed a few 125 and 133 still listed in the transfer portal with starting experience that could fit the spot. 

First, I am amazed that with Angel as a coach and ,at one time , Tsirtsis as a coach , they didn’t land that top 10 or so light weight over those years. Second, it seems that maybe unproven coaching experience is a deterrent for recruits?

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On 7/30/2022 at 6:57 AM, Disco said:

First, I am amazed that with Angel as a coach and ,at one time , Tsirtsis as a coach , they didn’t land that top 10 or so light weight over those years. Second, it seems that maybe unproven coaching experience is a deterrent for recruits?

Angel had 3 years as an asst at Iowa St. and a year as an asst at IU before getting the head job.  Iowa st was not a good team while Angel was there.  Their lightweights had virtually no success (0 conference champs), Earl Hall was a 2x AA at 125 and 133 during this time.  Not a great track record when he became head coach.  I'm sure the IU administration thought hiring and Indiana HS legend and IU national champ would be great, the results just haven't been there.  IU hasn't landed any of the elite indiana hs recruits (all the Lee's, Parris, Carroll, Mendez) and the state champs they have been getting haven't panned out.  I'm sure he has a long leash, but looks like a potential Goldman 2.0.

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49 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

Angel had 3 years as an asst at Iowa St. and a year as an asst at IU before getting the head job.  Iowa st was not a good team while Angel was there.  Their lightweights had virtually no success (0 conference champs), Earl Hall was a 2x AA at 125 and 133 during this time.  Not a great track record when he became head coach.  I'm sure the IU administration thought hiring and Indiana HS legend and IU national champ would be great, the results just haven't been there.  IU hasn't landed any of the elite indiana hs recruits (all the Lee's, Parris, Carroll, Mendez) and the state champs they have been getting haven't panned out.  I'm sure he has a long leash, but looks like a potential Goldman 2.0.

You have some good talking points here.sounds like He did not have much recruiting experience. While I’m in agreement, that the potential is there for a repeat of the past coaching dumpster fire, I don’t think the AD will let it get to that point. And I will say to the new coaching staffs credit, is the boys they have recruited really get after it. Very enjoyable to watch them wrestle. 180 degree difference from Goldmans last several years squads. 

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32 minutes ago, Disco said:

You have some good talking points here.sounds like He did not have much recruiting experience. While I’m in agreement, that the potential is there for a repeat of the past coaching dumpster fire, I don’t think the AD will let it get to that point. And I will say to the new coaching staffs credit, is the boys they have recruited really get after it. Very enjoyable to watch them wrestle. 180 degree difference from Goldmans last several years squads. 

Yes, they "get after it" but it generally hasn't produced results.  And in the end, that's what matters.

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On 7/13/2022 at 10:36 PM, Disco said:

...we drag on and end up with a Goldman situation...

I get this, but I do not think Goldman ever went more than three years without an All-American, and every now and then there was a Hoosier in the finals.  I remember when IU let go of Coach Mallory because he only made six bowl games in 13 years.  The result was Cam Cameron, a few others, and IU didn't see another bowl game for I think twelve years. 

 

What's my point?  I don't know.  It just seems like the athletic department wants to do worse.  I am a huge Escobedo fan, and I really hope this year is when he turns it around.      

Edited by matts
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13 hours ago, matts said:

I get this, but I do not think Goldman ever went more than three years without an All-American, and every now and then there was a Hoosier in the finals.  I remember when IU let go of Coach Mallory because he only made six bowl games in 13 years.  The result was Cam Cameron, a few others, and IU didn't see another bowl game for I think twelve years. 

 

What's my point?  I don't know.  It just seems like the athletic department wants to do worse.  I am a huge Escobedo fan, and I really hope this year is when he turns it around.      

Very true. And I think that’s the reason Fred Glass , with the blessing of President McRobbie chose to make a change. Duane was not attracting in state elite .and the wrestlers they did have were at half throttle, it seemed  ,and didn’t care. In contrast, Angels guys hit it hard every match and this shows in the bleachers as compared to Goldmans fan base. Not saying Angel is the answer but giving him the reins  is and was better than what we had.  Now how long does the administration give this coach to keep the trajectory in an upwardly movement? I see a leveling off. Thus my reason for starting the thread. It’s not that Angel can’t coach necessarily ,now it seems getting a handle on recruiting and maybe assembling and keeping assistants for consistency ,is the things he needs to improve on. 

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There was zero chance IU was going to get Mendez or any of the Lee's unless they had a real potential to win a title. So if Angel is going to do the very best he can I don't think Sollars is a bad pick up. In fact I see him doing quite well at IU. Major has potential as well. If we see Angel stay I think we will see a 4 win dual season and 2 to 3 AA's. I realize that is a streatch but I think that is the gauntlet set before Angel this year. I truly hope he gets there though.

 

Edit: I totally forgot about Freeman lots of potential there as well, as for the others they are talented as well I'm sure I just don't know that much about them.

I just hope that each wrestler gets to compete at the weight that best suites them.

Edited by Ahawkeye
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On 8/13/2022 at 9:30 PM, Ahawkeye said:

There was zero chance IU was going to get Mendez or any of the Lee's unless they had a real potential to win a title. So if Angel is going to do the very best he can I don't think Sollars is a bad pick up. In fact I see him doing quite well at IU. Major has potential as well. If we see Angel stay I think we will see a 4 win dual season and 2 to 3 AA's. I realize that is a streatch but I think that is the gauntlet set before Angel this year. I truly hope he gets there though.

 

Edit: I totally forgot about Freeman lots of potential there as well, as for the others they are talented as well I'm sure I just don't know that much about them.

I just hope that each wrestler gets to compete at the weight that best suites them.

I don't see 2-3 AA's in their line up this coming season.

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On 8/13/2022 at 10:30 PM, Ahawkeye said:

and 2 to 3 AA's. I realize that is a streatch but I think that is the gauntlet set before Angel this year.

I do to, think that is a stretch. If this becomes a reality then he really has a shot at attracting an elite to the program. Hawkeye is a little wishful as I am. But the ball is in Angels hands.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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On 7/11/2022 at 7:59 AM, Disco said:

While I know Rome wasn’t built in a day, the Indiana program seems to have gotten stagnant. I know the cupboard was bare when he started ,Angel got a few good recruits ,Rooks brothers , South and some immediate impact transfers ,but in the mean time has wiffed on top talent year after year. And I wish I could start this year talking about the rejuvenated lineup and how the Hoosiers will be in the mix for a mid conference finish, but I can’t. Other than all the guys on the squad are getting after it, unlike the last several years of the Goldman era, I don’t see any progress to move up in talent. I’m really beginning to question Fred Glass’s hire. At the time just a change of coaches, from Dwayne’s group was a coup. But now it getting scary , that the program maybe falling back into the old catch 22, after the initial excitement of getting the change of a new coach. Am I reading this right or is this year going to be different? I’m not as close to the program as some on this forum ,but I’m not feeling it. I propose a coaching change, this time ,reach out nationally ,with outside the Indiana athletic program, for help in the vetting for a good fit. 

 

The way I see it, if you care about IU’s wrestling program, your energy would be better spent improving wrestling’s social environment in Indiana at the high school level instead of trying to get rid of Angel.  
 

At IU and at Indiana in general, wrestling is just not cool.  Basketball is cool.  Football is cool.  Not wrestling, that is not cool.  I would know, I wrestled there 05-09.  I was on the team with Angel under the Goldman-Mena dynasty.  We were mid level big ten team with mostly Indiana HS wrestlers. Look us up we did a lot of winning. Angel is actually very smart, very charismatic, and very good at wrestling.  I was very jealous of him and his success with basically everything in life, but the hard truth is he’s better than me in everything because he worked harder.  There is no one better for the program.  The head coach needs to be a legend, IU has one in Angel.
 

Disco, You and I love wrestling.  We know it’s the greatest sport of all time.  But mom and dad came to watch us wrestle at IU home meets.  At Ohio, the common man and woman come out to watch wrestling, because wrestling is cool there.  We must change this in Indiana.  change it by getting out of our old ways.  Girls wrestling is a good step, but is only a start.  We must make the state tournament/season ending experience more enjoyable for everyone too, we can’t honestly believe the way it has been for so long is the best way still.  Class/division the state championship up however you want, but let’s just change it already.  
read my awesome proposal linked below that I posted last year that was universally trolled by everyone even though it’s actually pretty great idea but you all just don’t know me enough to take me seriously and that’s fine.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

One thing Indiana has had going for them is that even if the talent on the mat isn't as good as say a Penn State or an Iowa, they wrestle tough. 

 

Look at how their duals the last few seasons have gone, for example.  Even in their losses many duals are 40 or under total points scored, including a 24-15 loss to Penn State two seasons ago.

 

Now look at this season up ahead: Penn State, Ohio State, and Maryland are the only duals that are unwinnable.  Every other one, including Michigan, is winnable and every one of those squads will have to fight for their dubs.

 

The only weight I am unsure of, due to plain ignorance, is 133.  I would assume they would redshirt both Frazier and Thornton, but wrestlestat has Frazier starting as a true frosh.  Since they aren't exactly in a 'win-now' scenario I would think that bumping Spangler up would be the better option.

 

I also think that South needs to be at 165.  Maybe he carries his weight differently or has heavy bones, but I think his style and build are better suited for 165lbs.  Luckily 165 is absolutely jacked this year, so he will likely place higher in the B1G at 174 than he would 165.

 

All of this said, 133 and 165 seem to be the only holes for Indiana.  Everyone else is going to make people earn their points.  All it takes is for everyone to improve a little bit from last year and many of those tough, competitive losses turn to victories.

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20 minutes ago, bigballerb said:

Heard that DJ Washington will be moving down to 174.

Does this mean South us headed down to 165 as well?

 

If so then their lineup is instantly better.

 

South may not AA, but he is more suited for 165 than 174.

 

As for Washington?  He becomes an immediate low AA contender.  At 184 he was going to fight tooth and nail for a R16 or R12 finish in a peak performance scenario.

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12 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Does this mean South us headed down to 165 as well?

 

If so then their lineup is instantly better.

 

South may not AA, but he is more suited for 165 than 174.

 

As for Washington?  He becomes an immediate low AA contender.  At 184 he was going to fight tooth and nail for a R16 or R12 finish in a peak performance scenario.

Heard Washington and South will be wrestling off for it while Robert Major and Clayton Fielden will be going for 165.

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1 hour ago, bigballerb said:

Heard Washington and South will be wrestling off for it while Robert Major and Clayton Fielden will be going for 165.

Interesting in that their 'official' roster page lists Washington at 184 and South at 165 still, then.

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On 10/24/2022 at 9:26 AM, nhs67 said:

Interesting in that their 'official' roster page lists Washington at 184 and South at 165 still, then.

One thing you will discover about the the Hoosier program is that they don’t have a person on the inside offering any information. I would go a long way in getting more people to follow up on the team.  Even if it’s this. 

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