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Team State 2023


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6 hours ago, bigballerb said:

There were three teams ahead of Wawasee in 2a as well, with all of those teams being at least 8 points ahead of them, including the team that beat them for the 3rd/4th last year. Pretty interested to hear what led to them getting the vote. 

grammar*....

im dat guy...but im wif ya...we need some explanathions on as to why or how theeth teams are bein voted in...jus thum logic or riesen why ya'll voted dat way

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My team has been 0-2 in vote ins at the end of the season, 2021 and 2019, though we did get the second vote-in spot last winter when Columbia City withdrew their auto-bid during the season. It is frustrating to be close and not get in. I've been there. 

 

I think part of the difficulty in explaining reasoning comes from it being a committee that votes on the teams. No one person's reasoning supersedes the group decision. Each person votes equally. We all look at last season's results, the information given from the coaches, and the projected line-ups to make our votes. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeTython said:

grammar*....

im dat guy...but im wif ya...we need some explanathions on as to why or how theeth teams are bein voted in...jus thum logic or riesen why ya'll voted dat way

Lmao thanks Mike, good catch.

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13 minutes ago, Jcjcjc said:

My team has been 0-2 in vote ins at the end of the season, 2021 and 2019, though we did get the second vote-in spot last winter when Columbia City withdrew their auto-bid during the season. It is frustrating to be close and not get in. I've been there. 

 

I think part of the difficulty in explaining reasoning(RIESENING) comes from it being a committee that votes on the teams. No one person's reasoning(RIESENING) supersedes the group decision. Each person votes equally. We all look at last season's results, the information given from the coaches, and the projected line-ups to make our votes. 

 

 

 

 

CONSPIRATHY!

Edited by MikeTython
CONSPIRATHY THEERY
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Not much more to say than what Coach Cook did. We are given a projected lineup with the accolades of each wrestler. The coaches also are able to add additional thoughts on their roster. 

 

We look at season results, but those are hard to judge by since every team loses wrestlers. We look at strength of sectional/ regional/ semi-state when weighing returning wrestlers.

 

I think the committee does a pretty good job given the circumstances. My team has been in the final vote and not chosen multiple times. I've had to tell coaching friends they didn't get chosen. It's not something we like to do. 

 

The people on here upset are upset their team wasn't picked. But the committee makes decisions based on the information they have received. 

 

What I'm not going to do is get on here and air out specifics by pitting one team against another.

 

The beauty of what has come out of COVID for Team State is we have now added an in-season vote for one additional team. Those that want to be chosen still, let your results next November/ December be convincing.

Edited by ehscoach
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3 years I have been on here lobbying for Winamac to get (and Earn) an invite to Team State... I spit out many many statistics and comparisons to teams that were going and each year just felt CHEATED by the system....  couldn't understand how others were more deserving than our program based on given information. The hardest part  was comparing teams that don't see each other... ECC Semi-State vs Fort Wayne Semi-State, The always viewed weak Logansport Regional, and now to see that what so many people started working for almost 9 years ago to rebuild a program from 7 total wrestlers in the wrestling room to EARNING enough respect as a program from the selection committee (obviously not amongst all coaches in the northern half of the state) to be invited to TEAM STATE.....  I am so very thankful... I have no words to express the gratitude for this recognition... The part that excites me most is how this will ENERGIZE our kids and our community... These kids that have put in the work even when they had been knocked down time and time again. The FUEL this honor will provide our program can't be matched....  This experience for our kids will not be something that could be replicated anywhere.... 

 

I see and now understand that I was wrong the last 3 years.... focusing on the negative of not being invited was not fair to those that were invited and to all those programs I do publicly apologize....  wished I would have learned that sooner.... 

 

Side note....  To see Rochester, West Central, and Winamac all invited to Team State is so awesome for our little area!!! Great job head coaches and all supporters of each of those programs!!  Best of luck to each!!!

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I think it's interesting that Maconaquah hasn't been offered an opportunity the last years with bid spot. Being the most consistent 2A team to fall short each year of automatic bid. Furthermore, beating teams that competed in state duals that season.

It's hard to explain to wrestlers if 1 more wrestler would of....... we would of got the automatic bid. "But we missed the cut by .5 pt. again coach" 🤷‍♂️

 

Returning Line-up

1- State Placer, 4- Semi-state Qualifiers w/1 losing ticket round which 1 was an ISWA Folkstyle 3rd place, 4- regional qualifers which 1 was ISWA 2nd in Freesytle, and 2 incoming wrestler short of placing at middle school state in light weights. 

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1 hour ago, battlingbraves said:

I think it's interesting that Maconaquah hasn't been offered an opportunity the last years with bid spot. Being the most consistent 2A team to fall short each year of automatic bid. Furthermore, beating teams that competed in state duals that season.

It's hard to explain to wrestlers if 1 more wrestler would of....... we would of got the automatic bid. "But we missed the cut by .5 pt. again coach" 🤷‍♂️

 

Returning Line-up

1- State Placer, 4- Semi-state Qualifiers w/1 losing ticket round which 1 was an ISWA Folkstyle 3rd place, 4- regional qualifers which 1 was ISWA 2nd in Freesytle, and 2 incoming wrestler short of placing at middle school state in light weights. 

Maconaquah is a really good 2A team. They will show it again next year. They beat New Prairie and other team this year during the season!

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17 hours ago, battlingbraves said:

I think it's interesting that Maconaquah hasn't been offered an opportunity the last years with bid spot. Being the most consistent 2A team to fall short each year of automatic bid. Furthermore, beating teams that competed in state duals that season.

It's hard to explain to wrestlers if 1 more wrestler would of....... we would of got the automatic bid. "But we missed the cut by .5 pt. again coach" 🤷‍♂️

 

Returning Line-up

1- State Placer, 4- Semi-state Qualifiers w/1 losing ticket round which 1 was an ISWA Folkstyle 3rd place, 4- regional qualifers which 1 was ISWA 2nd in Freesytle, and 2 incoming wrestler short of placing at middle school state in light weights. 

I agree! You guys have been really consistent the past couple years. 

Edited by bigballerb
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  • 4 months later...
On 4/4/2022 at 4:45 AM, maligned said:

4A has only 33-35 schools, 3A has roughly 60 and 1A/2A roughly 90 schools each.

 

We proportion it so there are exactly 2/3 the number of schools in 3A overall as there are in each of 1A & 2A. Therefore, there are two thirds the number of Team State teams in 3A as in 1A and 2A.

 

Then 4A is its own animal, with most of the Top 10 overall best teams in the state found there--so we still send 8 despite the number of qualifiers being nearly 25% of the total number of 4A schools.

So big schools are punished for being big schools? And the magic line in the sand is 2,000 students... Whiteland's enrollment is 2,012 students. So that is just on the cusp of the 3A/ 4A but we fall on 4A side of the sword. 

so enrollment for 4A schools that are in the TEAM STATE DUALS

Carmel-5,400

Penn-3,800

Crown Point-2,900

Brownsburg- 2,866

Center Grove- 2,600

 

OPTION TO 4A Teams.

CATHEDRAL-1,074 3A

MATER DEI-500 ish 2A

 

So I am going to touch on a few issues here I have with the team state lay out. 

If we are basing it off enrollment then why don't we put schools in their proper class? The 2 private schools yes are good enough, but that not how it should be divided. Hell there are several teams that are good enough to bump up. And I am sure that some of the smaller schools would like a crack at Cathedral & Mater Dei but never have the chance during a normal season. I think that they should be in their right class. This adds to the smaller classes and takes away from the 4A schools.

 At the very least with allowing two smaller schools into 4A ,then take  2 teams from 4A should drop down to 3A. Or where ever they came from 

Has this actually happen to another team since this format was put into action? MAYBE A PRIVATES school Division? There are a 127 private high schools in the state. Almost 1 in 5 schools is private in the state are private/prep. But it seems to me that we should at the very least put them in the proper Class size that was created.

 

This is Whiteland's  first year as a 4A team...Last year we were, I think 3rd in 3A points before state last year and would have easily qualified  3A. Now, with the best squad in Whiteland in about 20 years we are now on the outskirts over 12 or 13 students. Since private schools can choose where they want to be placed we should be allowed to choose as well, to be 3A since that what we were and they vacated those spots.

Even orur regional in Moorseville is not even weighted to get kids that depth get points. How many 4 A schools are in our regional?  Avon, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, Pike, Center Grove & Whiteland.  (two teams were nationally ranked last year)That is 6-4A teams in the Mooresville regional there are 16 regionals and that should be about 2.3  4A teams per regional. WE HAVE 6! The Moorseville regional has over 15% of the 4A teams in the state! that means less points available to get because we knock each other around. We also had 21 teams in our regional. how many Others have that. I really dont know most seem to be 20 or less.

Or Maybe it should be an even amount of teams at each class.(12) Committee came up with 4 groups to divide but opted not to or voted not actually follow those through with it and there were exceptions made. There should be another exception made.

 

The big schools are already at a disadvantage giving up spot because of a percentage of big schools to small schools.

If this "GROWS OUR SPORT!" Then make it even and allow the same amount to all classes. This allows more exposure. What would be the problem? More matches? More revenue from spectators at the event? More people talking about wrestling? 

-Why do 2 of their spots go to schools that do not have the enrollment to be there?

-With only 8 4A schools and with 1 spot that is picked in season this seems to be a flawed. really should be 10 or 12 across the board. 

 

 

Also I don't know how to fix this other than a week after State finals have team state but then that does not fall in season and I am sure creates a bunch of other problems...

NOW our only chance to get to team state is to have a flawless start to the season. While half of our guys are still playing football. Whiteland Football ranked #1 @5A looks set to have a deep run with a handful of starters on the the team.

Incidentally 6 out of 7 schools are ranked in top 20 in 6A football

This does not bode well for starting off strong as we need to, so we can impress the powers that be to go.

I realize that my comments won't amount to a hill of beans but I needed to get it out there. I am sure I am in the minority on some of what I wrote but it does not seem right. I sure there is no perfect system, but there should be some tweaks made for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

@buttler73 has some fair points. Create a private school division. Other states do that for their sanctioned tournaments. Private schools are a different beast anyways and definitely have some advantages other schools do not. 

But honestly a lot less advantages now than before, when you look at the open enrollment trends of public schools.  Or maybe rather some public schools are now able to have some of those private school like advantages than they could have in years past. 

Edited by MattM
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7 minutes ago, MattM said:

But honestly a lot less advantages now than before, when you look at the open enrollment trends of public schools.  Or maybe rather some public schools are now able to have some of those private school like advantages than they could have in years past. 

That’s school by school basis. Homestead you have to live in the district for sure. Doesn’t even matter if a relative works there. But yes I would agree things are changing.

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OMG! Just go wrestle! Quit whining if a kid goes to a public or private school. You guys should know by now it doesn't matter what school you go to it matters how much off season work you're doing. 4 momths in a HS room isn't going to make a state champ wrestler or team. Look at the top tier guys and schools they are not just wrestling in season. I cannot believe we have people complaining from a 1200 person School that a little 500 person School is beating them. Tell your kids to get to work you are not going to get there by just wrestling in season. And if they're better than you then so be it if someone is better than us we don't complain that they should be in a different class we are going all the way to the top to find the best competition we can find. What else do you want from a 500 kid school? I thought wrestlers didn't make excuses!

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44 minutes ago, Ahawkeye said:

OMG! Just go wrestle! Quit whining if a kid goes to a public or private school. You guys should know by now it doesn't matter what school you go to it matters how much off season work you're doing. 4 momths in a HS room isn't going to make a state champ wrestler or team. Look at the top tier guys and schools they are not just wrestling in season. I cannot believe we have people complaining from a 1200 person School that a little 500 person School is beating them. Tell your kids to get to work you are not going to get there by just wrestling in season. And if they're better than you then so be it if someone is better than us we don't complain that they should be in a different class we are going all the way to the top to find the best competition we can find. What else do you want from a 500 kid school? I thought wrestlers didn't make excuses!

I agree with you during the individual tournament. This topic is about team state and getting the best teams in for each division. TBH it really doesn’t matter to me. But…. it is worth the discussion.

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I'll tell you what go make a division for whatever criteria you want. Put whatever schools want to be in this division, be it a huge school that is in the middle of nowhere or the small school that can't find the right competition or whatever criteria you want to make whatever school you want a state champ. Put all of them together and see who comes out on top and call them a state champ. But I can guarantee you if you pull Cathedral or MD out and put them in a private school division they will not be satisfied calling themselves a state champ unless they wrestle the top schools in the state. And I would bet that Crown Point Brownsburg or Center Grove isn't going to call themselves a state champ unless they wrestle Cathedral or MD. If you want to make it as Fair as you can for those that can't quite get there go make a division for them and leave us alone.

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4 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I'll tell you what go make a division for whatever criteria you want. Put whatever schools want to be in this division, be it a huge school that is in the middle of nowhere or the small school that can't find the right competition or whatever criteria you want to make whatever school you want a state champ. Put all of them together and see who comes out on top and call them a state champ. But I can guarantee you if you pull Cathedral or MD out and put them in a private school division they will not be satisfied calling themselves a state champ unless they wrestle the top schools in the state. And I would bet that Crown Point Brownsburg or Center Grove isn't going to call themselves a state champ unless they wrestle Cathedral or MD. If you want to make it as Fair as you can for those that can't quite get there go make a division for them and leave us alone.

I would be honestly interested in a poll of every person that cares about wrestling, that isn’t associated with the schools you just named, if they really care about naming one of those schools a team state champ. Most people want the school their associated with and their home grown wrestlers to do well. Yeah I like a great dual with great wrestling but I also can watch that all off-season at any of the big dual tournaments that stack the teams with studs. To each their own. 

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Everyone basically making my argument for me. It's time the IHSAA allows this to be an all in tournament like football, basketball, and etc AND it doesn't count towards the regular season dual tournament points for scheduling. Should have 2T meaning 2 state sactioned tournaments. The first being the single class individual tournament and the other the classed team dual tournament. I can see making a rule that a team has to have 8 weights filled to be able to compete.

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14 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

OMG! Just go wrestle! Quit whining if a kid goes to a public or private school. You guys should know by now it doesn't matter what school you go to it matters how much off season work you're doing. 4 momths in a HS room isn't going to make a state champ wrestler or team. Look at the top tier guys and schools they are not just wrestling in season. I cannot believe we have people complaining from a 1200 person School that a little 500 person School is beating them. Tell your kids to get to work you are not going to get there by just wrestling in season. And if they're better than you then so be it if someone is better than us we don't complain that they should be in a different class we are going all the way to the top to find the best competition we can find. What else do you want from a 500 kid school? I thought wrestlers didn't make excuses!

So, a school with 500 will have the same practice partners that a school with 1200 does ?  …Assuming there’s no recruiting , you have a great coaching staff , and great facilities?
 

You can wrestle a ton out of season and then get to season and have no partners , not the best coaching, and a poor facility for four months …four months is a long time for a 14-18 year old kid.  


And, let’s say a top notch coach took over a parochial school and kids were attracted to that …wouldn’t they have an advantage?

 

 

I’m a small school dude and LOVE our single class system for individual state, but you’re whacked out of your mind with what you’re trying to come off as on here 

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14 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I'll tell you what go make a division for whatever criteria you want. Put whatever schools want to be in this division, be it a huge school that is in the middle of nowhere or the small school that can't find the right competition or whatever criteria you want to make whatever school you want a state champ. Put all of them together and see who comes out on top and call them a state champ. But I can guarantee you if you pull Cathedral or MD out and put them in a private school division they will not be satisfied calling themselves a state champ unless they wrestle the top schools in the state. And I would bet that Crown Point Brownsburg or Center Grove isn't going to call themselves a state champ unless they wrestle Cathedral or MD. If you want to make it as Fair as you can for those that can't quite get there go make a division for them and leave us alone.

Leave us alone ?  What weight class do you wrestle and for which one of those schools?  (Seeing you’ve been a member since 08’ I’d bet you aren’t wrestling..maybe you’re a coach ?)

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14 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I'll tell you what go make a division for whatever criteria you want. Put whatever schools want to be in this division, be it a huge school that is in the middle of nowhere or the small school that can't find the right competition or whatever criteria you want to make whatever school you want a state champ. Put all of them together and see who comes out on top and call them a state champ. But I can guarantee you if you pull Cathedral or MD out and put them in a private school division they will not be satisfied calling themselves a state champ unless they wrestle the top schools in the state. And I would bet that Crown Point Brownsburg or Center Grove isn't going to call themselves a state champ unless they wrestle Cathedral or MD. If you want to make it as Fair as you can for those that can't quite get there go make a division for them and leave us alone.

Also—-you’re basically saying my job as a coach for the “four months “ I have them doesn’t really matter 

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3 hours ago, nkraus said:

Also—-you’re basically saying my job as a coach for the “four months “ I have them doesn’t really matter 

I don't think you know exactly where I'm coming from. I'm referring to only MD when I talk about a 500 kid school competing with a 1200 kid school. A team that willingly goes to the top class to wrestle. If someone is saying we should have a private school class because their school is 2 or even 10x the size of MD and they can't beat MD I say "What more do you want MD to do?" As far as your situation goes you should do right for you and your team (you are probably already doing that). In general I would not expect a 500 kid school to jump up and wrestle Ben Davis or Penn or WC at team state. I say don't mess with the system that is in place unless IHSAA wants to take it and do a class team state as long as a school can willingly move up. However I don't see IHSAA taking it, they already had team state at one time and then stopped doing it for a number of reasons, that subject is probably best for another thread.

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5 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I don't think you know exactly where I'm coming from. I'm referring to only MD when I talk about a 500 kid school competing with a 1200 kid school. A team that willingly goes to the top class to wrestle. If someone is saying we should have a private school class because their school is 2 or even 10x the size of MD and they can't beat MD I say "What more do you want MD to do?" As far as your situation goes you should do right for you and your team (you are probably already doing that). In general I would not expect a 500 kid school to jump up and wrestle Ben Davis or Penn or WC at team state. I say don't mess with the system that is in place unless IHSAA wants to take it and do a class team state as long as a school can willingly move up. However I don't see IHSAA taking it, they already had team state at one time and then stopped doing it for a number of reasons, that subject is probably best for another thread.

MD has a powerhouse system and one of the best wrestling cultures probably in the Nation.  Yes there are years the little 500 person private school can bump up and win team state against big huge public schools. They can also go and win state as a team in the individual series. So that shows they are the supreme champions of Indiana wrestling that year. Awesome, good for you and everyone associated with that program. I honestly bet it feels great to be on top like that and every single wrestler, coach, and parent at MD puts in more effort than the rest of the state. You have your bubble you live in, I get it, and I don’t blame you.

I am not bagging on Cathedral or MD. They are both great programs and it would be great to be a part of something like that. What I am saying is there could be a discussion about separating private schools  for team state to allow even more teams opportunities that probably will not also ever be able to put a team together that can make a run at the individual team state title.

I know MD is already in some real powerhouse dual tournaments and there are always known powerhouse teams that they can make sure they get the opportunity to wrestle during the season. Also realize I’m not trying to get my team to team state. We aren’t there yet no matter how hard we try.  I am just interesting in talking wrestling now that season is starting next week.

 

 

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1 hour ago, aoberlin said:

MD has a powerhouse system and one of the best wrestling cultures probably in the Nation.  Yes there are years the little 500 person private school can bump up and win team state against big huge public schools. They can also go and win state as a team in the individual series. So that shows they are the supreme champions of Indiana wrestling that year. Awesome good for you and everyone associated with that program. I honestly bet it feels great to be on top like that and every single wrestler, coach, and parent at MD puts in more effort than the rest of the state. You have your bubble you live in, I get it, and I don’t blame you.

I am not bagging on Cathedral or MD. They are both great programs and it would be great to be a part of something like that. What I am saying is there could be a discussion about separating private schools  for team state to allow even more teams opportunities that probably will not also ever be able to put a team together that can make a run at the individual team state title.

I know MD is already in some real powerhouse dual tournaments and there are always known powerhouse teams that they can make sure they get the opportunity to wrestle during the season. Also realize I’m not trying to get my team to team state. We aren’t there yet no matter how hard we try.  I am just interesting in talking wrestling now that season is starting next week.

 

 

I understand what you are saying but I disagree with any talk of putting MD, Cathedral, or any other private school in their own class just because someone thinks they can't beat them because they are a private school. Wrestling is the fairest sport there is there are only two contestants and they both weigh the same amount. If you want to create an open class for the team title I would be okay with that but do not alienate the private schools just because the public schools don't want to wrestle them.

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