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Team State 2023


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On 3/30/2022 at 8:56 PM, ehscoach said:

It’s not that it’s not possible. We’ve shown that the last few years we can spread out a little. 
 

The concern from people that I work with is asking for a “tournament director” for each site. Basically spreading ourselves too thin.

 

But that can also be solved by training someone ahead of time.

 

Also getting non-school provided supplies to 4 different locations provides a lot of coordinating. As well as setting up things like internet at 4 spots requires someone to go to multiple places. I know Pat Culp went multiple places last year to setup.

 

We have shown we have a great product and that we don’t need to do that all at one site. The introduction of streaming has really reduced a need for that.

 

Really the answer is I don’t want to spread thin the help that I have that makes this tournament great. But the last few years we have proved we can do more than we think. I just have not met with the people yet that would be involved in this decision.

 

Ratliff

I'd be happy to speak with my AD and see if Rochester can host 1A.  Let me know what you think @ehscoach

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Last evening our Team State committee hosted it's annual vote-in selection to choose ONE OF THE FINAL TWO spots for the IHSWCA Team State Tournament on January 7th 2023. 
 
The committee has to make very difficult decisions on which teams will be selected for this tournament. 
 
As a reminder, in the last two seasons we have chosen to pick ONE MORE team based on in-season results. That vote will be around December 18th. 
 
Teams chosen last evening were: 
4A: Carmel
3A: Terre Haute South
2A: Wawasee
1A: Winamac
 
Thanks, and congratulations to these programs.
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There were three teams ahead of Wawasee in 2a as well, with all of those teams being at least 8 points ahead of them, including the team that beat them for the 3rd/4th last year. Pretty interested to hear what led to them getting the vote. 

Edited by bigballerb
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4 minutes ago, bigballerb said:

There were three teams ahead of Wawasee in 2a as well with all of those teams being at least 8 points ahead of them, including the team that beat them for the 3rd/4th last year. Pretty interested to hear what led to them getting them vote. 

Very interesting, two teams from East Chicago semi state get in with fewer points than Fort Wayne semi state teams in front of them. Makes you wonder if other factors got into play here. I know the numbers I run don’t make much sense for these decisions. 

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

Very interesting, two teams from East Chicago semi state get in with fewer points than Fort Wayne semi state teams in front of them. Makes you wonder if other factors got into play here. I know the numbers I run don’t make much sense for these decisions. 

Right!? Oak Hill comes from a sectional and regional level 4 while Wawasee comes from a level 3. Wawasee does return two more starters with 12 while OH returns 10, but if you run the matches from last year at Team State with no seniors involved Oak Hill wins 39-10. We return zero starters with losing records while Wawasee returns 5. We have an average returning regular season record of 25-6 while Wawasee's is 15-9. Make it make sense.....  Anyway you can help? @ehscoach

Edited by bigballerb
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Below are the voting members of the committee. 

 

IHSAA Team State Selection Committee

Attendance

Sam Riesen (East Noble, Secretary), Greg Ratliff (Edgewood, Past President), Jason Cook (Hobart, Vice President), Jake O’neill (Warren Central, Past President), Dane Fuelling (Indianamat Rankings Coordinator), Eric Myers (Jay County), Alex Johns (Avon)

 

I do not believe that it would be right to put any of what was discussed out on the board. I do however think its important to note that voting was done by a committee of coaches from around the state, it was not one individual who had the final say. It was voted on after open discussion of all teams amongst the group.

 

Secondly there is still an open spot in each class for next season.  If a team is deserving of that last spot they have the opportunity to earn it at the start of next season.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, ENoblewrestling said:

Below are the voting members of the committee. 

 

IHSAA Team State Selection Committee

Attendance

Sam Riesen (East Noble, Secretary), Greg Ratliff (Edgewood, Past President), Jason Cook (Hobart, Vice President), Jake O’neill (Warren Central, Past President), Dane Fuelling (Indianamat Rankings Coordinator), Eric Myers (Jay County), Alex Johns (Avon)

 

I do not believe that it would be right to put any of what was discussed out on the board. I do however think its important to note that voting was done by a committee of coaches from around the state, it was not one individual who had the final say. It was voted on after open discussion of all teams amongst the group.

 

Secondly there is still an open spot in each class for next season.  If a team is deserving of that last spot they have the opportunity to earn it at the start of next season.

 

 

I am curious to why do you think the reasonings behind the vote shouldn't be posted on the board? 

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I am glad there is a vote for a spot. If you are going to just go by numbers, then do it. The points system is very good and proven to find the top teams for the tournament, but not necessarily the best top to bottom. Not a knock and just my opinion. It's based on an individual tournament, not dual format where matchups and bumping come into play.  Anecdotally, there have been many cases in the past where a team had more points and was beaten in a dual that season and the following season by team(s) who weren't considered to get in. This vote in spot along with the remaining spot for the best performing in season team, helps address that and any "scoring anomalies".  All 3 combined, points, vote, & in season performance, seems to be a good all around approach given the limitations and situations the dual team tournament faces.  

Edited by RAJR
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3 minutes ago, VisionQuest87 said:

Am I missing something here.  Why have this complicated points system that only a CPA could understand and then vote on the teams?   Why wouldn't the teams with the most points be offered the spot first?   Yes please explain...

The first 6(in 3A and 4A) and 10(in 1A and 2A) are strictly on the points. The vote-in is for teams to petition in a way to get into the field. They submit information such as good backups or guys that were ineligible that will be back along with any incoming freshmen. The vote-in process is a way to encapsulate teams beyond the numbers, which is a good thing.

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39 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The first 6(in 3A and 4A) and 10(in 1A and 2A) are strictly on the points. The vote-in is for teams to petition in a way to get into the field. They submit information such as good backups or guys that were ineligible that will be back along with any incoming freshmen. The vote-in process is a way to encapsulate teams beyond the numbers, which is a good thing.

Completely understand.  Big when you have a back up to a senior that maybe lost to him by 1-2 points in wrestle-offs.  Or you have a stud freshmen coming in.  I think the people that are hurt or asking about the voting process (not me at all, just wrote a comment) need to have more information about these type of things (Backups and in coming freshmen) to feel that the process is working.

Edited by VisionQuest87
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16 minutes ago, VisionQuest87 said:

Completely understand.  Big when you have a back up to a senior that maybe lost to him by 1-2 points in wrestle-offs.  Or you have a stud freshmen coming in.  I think the people that are hurt or asking about the voting process (not me at all, just wrote a comment) need to have more information about these type of things (Backups and in coming freshmen) to feel that the process is working.

Really, that's what we're looking for. I can bust out numbers that don't agree to the decision of the vote for both 1A and 2A, but there are those other factors that come into play. Like if Winamac has 5 middle school state champs coming in, or state qualifiers coming back from injury, why can't someone come out and say it? 

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In regards to 1A, first of all congrats to Winamac. Secondly, I realize I am biased but when you are 18 points ahead on criteria, it would seem there would have to be an overwhelming amount of evidence to bump around. I haven’t heard that Winamac met that level over South Adams. We had no forfeits at the Sectional, return most of our Regional points and have an outstanding group of eight graders. That may sound like Winamac’s argument. Nevertheless, what’s done is done and we will just go do it on the mat

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3 hours ago, ENoblewrestling said:

Below are the voting members of the committee. 

 

IHSAA Team State Selection Committee

Attendance

Sam Riesen (East Noble, Secretary), Greg Ratliff (Edgewood, Past President), Jason Cook (Hobart, Vice President), Jake O’neill (Warren Central, Past President), Dane Fuelling (Indianamat Rankings Coordinator), Eric Myers (Jay County), Alex Johns (Avon)

 

I do not believe that it would be right to put any of what was discussed out on the board. I do however think its important to note that voting was done by a committee of coaches from around the state, it was not one individual who had the final say. It was voted on after open discussion of all teams amongst the group.

 

Secondly there is still an open spot in each class for next season.  If a team is deserving of that last spot they have the opportunity to earn it at the start of next season.

 

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I don't like this train of thought and for the record, I'm a Sam Riesen fan.

 

When you have a committee deciding things about other people's programs, then you have an obligation to be able to explain yourself and to do that exact thing when asked.  Maybe not on the board, but the reasoning should be readily available.  It's the same thing with the sectional realignment.  There is a committee that does the leg work for the IHSAA and then the IHSAA decides.  But, when decisions are being made about 300+ programs, then those people have a duty to explain things.  In the last year, I have heard from over 15+ head coaches that Rochester is moving back to the ECC Semi-State.  That's frustrating to me.  Why would other programs know about my program before I do?  Why is it still difficult to get a straight answer?  It'd be nice to know so I can start working on changing our schedule.  Anyway, now I'm just venting. :)

 

I'm not a big fan of "secrecy" and I feel like these are always two big decisions that are always kept a "secret".  I have the same gripe with the IHSAA.  Why does everything have to be a big secret.  You make the decision, so stand by it and explain it when asked.  Again, when you represent a larger group and you make decisions on what is and is not best for the people and programs in that group, then you have an obligation to explain your reasoning to that group.

 

 

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