JORVILLE Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Looking at Brackets and listed are multiple kids who claim state champions or placers and obviously not checked right. Also looking at brackets in Junior Division and can notice mistakes. Example at 152 Junior you have Returning State Champ and two other kids who finished 3rd. Bracket is made and State Champ and 3rd place are on top of bracket while other 3rd is on bottom of bracket. This is throughout every age division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestlingfan937 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 It’s based on ISWA placements only DrunkJoeNamath and Jstephenson1356 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jstephenson1356 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Junior 120 has a quarter bracket that all 4 kids made it to state this year lol. That means someone who made it to state won’t place at iswa state QuinnHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Wrestlingfan937 said: It’s based on ISWA placements only I’m talking about Iswa placements only. Nothing to do with high school. Another example at 160 Junior you have two kids who won ISWA State last year on top of bracket and another kid who lied on bottom but listed as ISWA State Champ on bottom. base 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 52 minutes ago, Jstephenson1356 said: Junior 120 has a quarter bracket that all 4 kids made it to state this year lol. That means someone who made it to state won’t place at iswa state Ya that’s just bad luck but it’s based off ISWA Folkstyle 2021 Results only. And yet they are messing that up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 22 hours ago, JORVILLE said: Looking at Brackets and listed are multiple kids who claim state champions or placers and obviously not checked right. Also looking at brackets in Junior Division and can notice mistakes. Example at 152 Junior you have Returning State Champ and two other kids who finished 3rd. Bracket is made and State Champ and 3rd place are on top of bracket while other 3rd is on bottom of bracket. This is throughout every age division. At Junior 152 the one on the bottom won, and was 3rd at Junior previous year while others were Cadet so that takes criteria. The previous champion(cadet) didnt weigh in or show so a non factor & have no clue why he was even in the bracket. There were 2 other state qualifiers who had no criteria. I'm curious where your complaint is with this weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) Probably should be happy they have any sort of separation criteria and regular brackets. Back in the day it was straight luck of the draw and in verticals brackets where if you lost round 1 you were paired with a winner from round 1 in order to help decrease the field quicker. Under that system, after placing high in 56 man cadet bracket the year prior, my first year of juniors I drew the previous years ISWA junior state champ and followed that up with the IHSAA 3rd place finisher. Needless to say that was a very quick weekend for me. Edited March 13, 2022 by MattM Faithcoach, Dwilly, MUSKEEWRESTLER and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 20 hours ago, Dwilly said: At Junior 152 the one on the bottom won, and was 3rd at Junior previous year while others were Cadet so that takes criteria. The previous champion(cadet) didnt weigh in or show so a non factor & have no clue why he was even in the bracket. There were 2 other state qualifiers who had no criteria. I'm curious where your complaint is with this weight? This weight was just an example. The one previous and only Champion Rinehart never showed for either division after weighing in. So it left both previous 3rd place finisher on opposite sides. Interesting to know that Junior 3rd place finisher gets higher criteria according to you over Cadet Champion. That’s the first I’ve heard of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, JORVILLE said: This weight was just an example. The one previous and only Champion Rinehart never showed for either division after weighing in. So it left both previous 3rd place finisher on opposite sides. Interesting to know that Junior 3rd place finisher gets higher criteria according to you over Cadet Champion. That’s the first I’ve heard of that Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying Junior(3rd) gets it over the Cadet 3rd place finisher who lost to someone with no criteria. Rinehart never weighed in is what you are missing. There is no weight reference. Every other competitor has weight recognized from scale. Rinehart should have never been in the bracket. If you want major discrepancies though you can look at the freetsyle brackets from last year. Particularly Junior 145 and 182. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted March 14, 2022 Author Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Dwilly said: Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying Junior(3rd) gets it over the Cadet 3rd place finisher who lost to someone with no criteria. Rinehart never weighed in is what you are missing. There is no weight reference. Every other competitor has weight recognized from scale. Rinehart should have never been in the bracket. If you want major discrepancies though you can look at the freetsyle brackets from last year. Particularly Junior 145 and 182. Ok but was told today that they don’t see any Criteria any different. A 1 is the same as a 4 . In a Cadet bracket they had two Returning State champs and both put on the same side with the 2 on opposite side. Dwilly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) Separation Criteria is just that. It's designed to "separate" top 4 placers so they don't see each other in the first round. That could look different from bracket to bracket depending how many top 4 placers there are. They have someone on Friday night that goes through every bracket to verify the top four placement in the style being wrestled. There are a lot of people that claim separation criteria who don't have it. Once the brackets are made the program in track separates the wrestlers in the bracket. The ISWA is working with track to have a weighted ranking system for ISWA state events that take several types of tournaments in consideration with one of them being IHSAA State. Now this will be done with a program so it probably won't be perfect either. As MattM stated above, "Probably should be happy they have any sort of separation criteria and regular brackets. Back in the day it was straight luck of the draw and in verticals brackets where if you lost round 1 you were paired with a winner from round 1 in order to help decrease the field quicker." The ISWA is wanting pairing officials so please sign up and make it better. Set up mats, run wifi, take incessant phone calls with people bitching, get yelled at all day by people who have no clue how to run a tournament, get less sleep than anyone in the building, no breaks, and no pay all for the love of the wrestling community. Come get ya some! lol Edited March 14, 2022 by Justin Ratliff 3fishinkids, Rugger44, Dwilly and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 22 hours ago, MattM said: Probably should be happy they have any sort of separation criteria and regular brackets. Back in the day it was straight luck of the draw and in verticals brackets where if you lost round 1 you were paired with a winner from round 1 in order to help decrease the field quicker. Under that system, after placing high in 56 man cadet bracket the year prior, my first year of juniors I drew the previous years ISWA junior state champ and followed that up with the IHSAA 3rd place finisher. Needless to say that was a very quick weekend for me. And this is why vertical pairing was terrible. Because nobody understood it. First round losers DID NOT get paired with first round winners. There's a very structured criteria for pairing who wrestles whom next, and it has nothing to do with previous round results. nonns, gogoplata89 and Gasman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwilly Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 10 hours ago, JORVILLE said: Ok but was told today that they don’t see any Criteria any different. A 1 is the same as a 4 . In a Cadet bracket they had two Returning State champs and both put on the same side with the 2 on opposite side. Fair enough & that would also make sense in this instance. I know it's hard to do that many weight classes, and age diviions for the ISWA. JORVILLE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, GrecoCoach said: And this is why vertical pairing was terrible. Because nobody understood it. First round losers DID NOT get paired with first round winners. There's a very structured criteria for pairing who wrestles whom next, and it has nothing to do with previous round results. #BringBackVerticalPairing As the guy who drew J'den Cox then Kyle Snyder in the first two rounds at Fargo one year. Figuring out who you'd wrestle was always fun to calculate. Then add in the random losses you can take and still make the finals. Vertical pairing was a disaster, but also fun. Jstephenson1356, Gasman and DrunkJoeNamath 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinnHarris Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 7:04 AM, Jstephenson1356 said: Junior 120 has a quarter bracket that all 4 kids made it to state this year lol. That means someone who made it to state won’t place at iswa state 6/14 Kids in this bracket were ticket round or better this year! A state qualifier didn't place top 8. Dwilly and Jstephenson1356 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttler73 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 5:43 AM, Wrestlingfan937 said: It’s based on ISWA placements only Exactly and if it was actually entered in when registered. Justin Ratliff and MUSKEEWRESTLER 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Justin Ratliff said: Separation Criteria is just that. It's designed to "separate" top 4 placers so they don't see each other in the first round. That could look different from bracket to bracket depending how many top 4 placers there are. They have someone on Friday night that goes through every bracket to verify the top four placement in the style being wrestled. There are a lot of people that claim separation criteria who don't have it. Once the brackets are made the program in track separates the wrestlers in the bracket. The ISWA is working with track to have a weighted ranking system for ISWA state events that take several types of tournaments in consideration with one of them being IHSAA State. Now this will be done with a program so it probably won't be perfect either. As MattM stated above, "Probably should be happy they have any sort of separation criteria and regular brackets. Back in the day it was straight luck of the draw and in verticals brackets where if you lost round 1 you were paired with a winner from round 1 in order to help decrease the field quicker." The ISWA is wanting pairing officials so please sign up and make it better. Set up mats, run wifi, take incessant phone calls with people bitching, get yelled at all day by people who have no clue how to run a tournament, get less sleep than anyone in the building, no breaks, and no pay all for the love of the wrestling community. Come get ya some! lol Why aren't they getting paid? Track shows 2,000 registered...times $50 per wrestler...$100,000...plus spectators paying $20 per person...And the people organizing the tournament don't get paid? Dwilly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I don’t know. Officials get paid. Pairing officials don’t though. I guess they do it for the free pork nachos? Rugger44 and Jstephenson1356 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts