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Greatest vs. Best


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10 minutes ago, MattM said:

The other hair splitter here is weather to just take the wrestlers for only their HS career (in-season) or count their HS career  off season,  or  also add in all their post HS accolades as part of this argument.  Depending on which matrix a person chooses to use it would completely  reshuffles the list.   


I just like to celebrate guys, one could make a great argument for them all. I grew up watching Tsirtsis, Angel, Mauer, Coughlin, Howe. They, and the others I haven’t named, are the motivation the future ones will use. 
 

There’s never a clear winner & there never will be, which is what makes this topic really fun!

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If we want to bring up a century old name Richard Voliva did pretty good for himself post HS with only earning two state titles.  First Big10 wrestler to become a national champ, also a national runner up and an Olympic silver medalist.  Not sure Indiana has ever had a Olympic gold yet, so he’s the standard bearer there. 

Edited by MattM
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18 hours ago, MattM said:

True, but it’s not like he just fizzles out in college.  Mauer has a major neck injuries that derailed his career and ended any chance at college level success.  I’m not trying to say he would be a national champ, but he never had a legit shot at proving himself at the college level.  But he has a pre-injury national record against some high leave guys to show he could have been a contender.   

Regardless he has little to no accolades after leaving EMD which is why he’s not in the conversation of GOAT. 
 

I do agree though that it’s important to provide a matrix in terms of what time period we are using when discussing this topic. If you just go by the four years each was in HS, Mauer is in the conversation for sure. If you’re looking at HS, College, International…he falls way down on the list. 

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10 hours ago, MattM said:

If we want to bring up a century old name Richard Voliva did pretty good for himself post HS with only earning two state titles.  First Big10 wrestler to become a national champ, also a national runner up and an Olympic silver medalist.  Not sure Indiana has ever had a Olympic gold yet, so he’s the standard bearer there. 


https://www.eiwawrestling.org/HOF/Hall_of_Fame/voliva-dick?view=bio
 

It’s looks he had quite the coaching career too. 

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On 3/5/2022 at 9:19 PM, Gasman said:

 When you look how dominant Howe was his Junior year vs. Angel in his junior year there clearly is a difference in levels. Angel won by decision in his matches while Howe teched or pinned the field. Howe lost in the finals his freshman year against  a 3x champ Humphrey in his senior year by 5 points and was booed for stalling during the match. Howe is the best of all time in Indiana. Stop judging by the number of championships or number of wins and look also at how they won those matches, who they lost to in those

matches and also consider the weights that they won these at. 

I agree how dominate they were against their peers is important. But Tell me this… Jason Tsirtsis didnt get taken down his last 3 years in high school, did howe do that as well? Jason beat the #2 kid in the country at his weight class by 14! How did howe fair against the 2nd best wrestler in the country? Jason beat an NCAA champion during high school… did howe beat anyone at that kind of level? Just genuinely wondering. Theres plenty of guys with 4 state titles, fargo/super 32 titles, being #1 in the country. Thats what separates Jason imo. 

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12 minutes ago, Gasman said:

Jason would be the one guy I would say is on Howes level. Maybe a slight advantage to Howe for better college career and international career. 

Agreed. But if we are talking who reached the highest skill level while in high school I go with Jason. Overall career Ill go with Howe. 

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Speaking on high school level alone let's not forget the Dolly sought Maurer out. Post high school Dolly had a pretty good showing, Dolly could have been a state champ had he not chose to go after Blake. Maurer beat the #1 in the country at Dapper Dan I believe. I'm not saying Maurer was the GOAT by any means but a match between Maurer and Howe would be interesting.

 

I believe we have yet to see what Mr. Mendez brings to the table after high school. I think Mendez will see much success at college, I'm not sure about Olympic or world titles but that's just because I have not looked at Mendez's freestyle matches. It will be a fun journey to watch unfold though! 

 

On another note, Lee could have easily been a 4xer, he just chose to chase the best competition he could find AND he skipped his senior year.

I think Chad Red deserves a nod as well if we are talking about high school careers.

 

 

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