This Was a Great Idea

[blueandgold]

Indiana 1A/2A Individual State was a great idea. Regardless of how anyone feels about class wrestling, from a fan perspective, this was great. I come from a large program, one of the most storied programs in Indiana history, and I know how sometimes it’s like being in a bubble as we only see other big schools more often than smaller ones. This event opened my eyes to many names, though. Some names were familiar, while some weren’t, and those who didn’t really stand out saw this as a chance to put their names on the map. It also helped that medalists and qualifiers of the IHSAA state tournament participated because it added stakes and provided a great measuring stick for kids to see where they are, and now they know and have a course of action to get better. The only bummer was that it took place during Frosh-Soph State weekend, but it already had a great turnout. I hope next year it’s even bigger!

[McHammer]

I'll second that!!! I thought the folks that put this together did a fantastic job of managing this tournament. Great idea! I'm sure this will grow even more in the coming years. I know it sucks having it the same weekend as Frosh/Soph. State but I don't like the idea of having it to far removed from the actual state tournament either. I feel like the weekend following the State Tourney is the best time. If the folks in Southport can't fix the internet service they may loose numbers to !A/2a State in the future.

[bulldog145]

I second this with the addition of splitting into 2 Regional Sites and bringing the top 8 from both sites to make a 1 day 16 man tournament.  Maybe do it on a Saturday and Sunday or back to back weekends.  

[Tenser310]

Was a Great day of Small School wrestling!!  There were kids that beat kids that got further in IHSAA tournament just because of draws and facing those large schools..  it was a day of ups and downs and a day where Thoughts and Prayers were needed for a wrestler that had a very serious medical issue in his finals match..  I can't elaborate as I don't know that much but was a very very worrisome moment....  hope he is recovering quickly.  

 

To get to come back to our little community of 3,000 people and say that we had 3 placers and the Inaugural 1A/2A State Championships was very VERY cool...  and the kids were already buzzing about it on social media and messaging each other with pics of the plaques....  THATS the kind of buzzing our sport needs in our little community!!!   NO DOUBT this will transition into 1-2 more kids next year and maybe 3-4 more kids year after....  so excited to watch this grow!!  

 

To see the look on our wrestlers faces that got to feel this accomplishment...  you can't replace that feeling.....  Great Stuff!!!

[Coachin]

Have them wrestle at folkstyle state, other than that nahh

[hogleg]

2 hours ago, McHammer said:

 If the folks in Southport can't fix the internet service they may loose numbers to !A/2a State in the future.

 

The internet there was terrible, but it is going to take much more than that to sway anyone from that tournament.  

[Wrestling Scholar]

This was the first year and was a prototype,  or  you call it a pilot.    I think this pilot was pretty awsome and its brand is going to grow.   The whole concept is great,  and Greg Hughes (Lutheran Coach) took an idea put into action.   He put a lot of work and recruiting and wore a lot of hats to make this happen.  Lets also thinks to the job the Coach Welliever and the Southmont staff did to make this happen.

 

Agreeing with Hogleg,  and the reason the idea so good it gives the small school kids a chance to shine.  IMO, the IHSAA tournament is good, and not to get into the class wrestling argument,  but the small school wrestler in Indiana is overlooked and mistreated.   This give the kid a chance at a state title and an obtainable goal to be a state placer.     Yes, this year we didnt have full participation,  because just getting the word out or kids not buying in.   In my opinion,  the kids that won this tournament are State Champions.  So what if it doesnt have the IHSAA stamp on it   Yes they didn't face the whole population of 1A and 2A but these kids were the first to buy in participate.  I think in future years you'll get a higher percentage participation.   And it fills the big whole that the  IHSAA leaves out and gives these small kids some visibility.      Too bad it had to compete with Frosh/Soph state,  but i think the whole concept is something wrestling community will eventually come to embrace. 

[casualwrestlingfan]

I've said this prior but why not turn events like Mishawaka & Mater Dei into 1A/2A individual state & 3A/4A individual state or a part of it. This should be an additional tournament series with the single class during the season & sanctioned by IHSAA and/or IHSWCA.

[hogleg]

What would feelings be if Mater Dei showed up at 1A 2A state?  

[blueandgold]

30 minutes ago, hogleg said:

What would feelings be if Mater Dei showed up at 1A 2A state?  

I think it would be a good thing. They’re a 1A school who competes in 4A Team State and a great measuring stick for kids who don’t get their hand at them during the IHSAA season.

 

[Siburcrist]

Coming from coaching a 6A school from a multi- class state to a 1A school here in Indiana, I’ve seen the major differences from a coaching perspective as well as seeing the athletes’ perspective firsthand. There are pros and cons to having a multi class state series. And there are pros and cons to having a single class state series. Participating in the 1A/2A state tournament brought back some memories from the past. A lot of small school athletes lose motivation past sectionals. Keeping small schools and small school athletes motivated throughout the whole series can only be a positive. The top kids in each weight in the 1A/2A tournament were very good. You add more kids the next few years and this tournament will be on fire for the teams, coaches, athletes, and families. There was a buzz about it for sure. Get the scheduling and qualifying tweaked…everything is golden. It was a great experience. After all, kids can only do frosh/soph for two years. 

[AJ]

15 hours ago, hogleg said:

 

The internet there was terrible, but it is going to take much more than that to sway anyone from that tournament.  

It could not be any worse than the internet at Southport...

[ReformedPoster]

15 hours ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

This was the first year and was a prototype,  or  you call it a pilot.    I think this pilot was pretty awsome and its brand is going to grow.   The whole concept is great,  and Greg Hughes (Lutheran Coach) took an idea put into action.   He put a lot of work and recruiting and wore a lot of hats to make this happen.  Lets also thinks to the job the Coach Welliever and the Southmont staff did to make this happen.

 

Agreeing with Hogleg,  and the reason the idea so good it gives the small school kids a chance to shine.  IMO, the IHSAA tournament is good, and not to get into the class wrestling argument,  but the small school wrestler in Indiana is overlooked and mistreated.   This give the kid a chance at a state title and an obtainable goal to be a state placer.     Yes, this year we didnt have full participation,  because just getting the word out or kids not buying in.   In my opinion,  the kids that won this tournament are State Champions.  So what if it doesnt have the IHSAA stamp on it   Yes they didn't face the whole population of 1A and 2A but these kids were the first to buy in participate.  I think in future years you'll get a higher percentage participation.   And it fills the big whole that the  IHSAA leaves out and gives these small kids some visibility.      Too bad it had to compete with Frosh/Soph state,  but i think the whole concept is something wrestling community will eventually come to embrace. 

I can agree that small school kids can be overlooked.  But I totally disagree that they are mistreated.  Curious to hear your rationale on this one.

[Hornet Coach]

Some of the ideas that I have heard thrown around to improve the event.

1.  Have it on a different weekend than freshman / sophomore state

2.  The obvious internet / wifi problems

3.  Making this a 2 day event so as it grows, it will not be such a long day on Sunday

 

There were many people that worked very hard to make this happen.  Thank you to the table workers (usually a thankless job) for working hard all day.  It was a very good event, especially for the first year.  

[hogleg]

3 hours ago, AJ said:

It could not be any worse than the internet at Southport...

 

Southport is what I was referring to.  I love the tournament, hate the internet service.  We will still be back next year though

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by hogleg

[Faithcoach]

I absolutely loved this event as did my wrestlers! There are always things to improve on from basically any tournament but I think this was a HOMERUN! I am excited to see how much this grows in the years to come. 

[Steven Sandefer]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:46 PM, casualwrestlingfan said:

I've said this prior but why not turn events like Mishawaka & Mater Dei into 1A/2A individual state & 3A/4A individual state or a part of it. This should be an additional tournament series with the single class during the season & sanctioned by IHSAA and/or IHSWCA.

Unfortunately I feel like this idea would take away from what we have worked hard to build. Just not a fan of class wrestling... single class is part of our prestige nationally. We also don't have the depth other classed states do. I just find it hard to call yourself a true "State Champion" if there were 2 or 4 other kids at your weight that won it too...

 

I could see having a 3 tier level by enrollment (almost as levels like the NCAA).

Open division (D1), a D2, and D3. All large D1 schools must enter the D1 - open division. D2 and D3 have the option to either enter the open division or remain in their current divisions only. D1 will kind of be seen like crown of the classes as we see in college wrestling. It's kind of the like the old school NCAA's where D2 and D3 champs could enter D1s. OR hold a D2 & D3 state on the same weekend, then all the champions advance to the open D1s the next week where only 1 will be crowned?

Idk, there just needs to serve a purpose other than to make people feel better about themselves imo...

[Y2CJ41]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:46 PM, casualwrestlingfan said:

I've said this prior but why not turn events like Mishawaka & Mater Dei into 1A/2A individual state & 3A/4A individual state or a part of it. This should be an additional tournament series with the single class during the season & sanctioned by IHSAA and/or IHSWCA.

The problem with that is there is no way you can make a two-day event work with this. There are around 100 1A and another 100 2A schools. That would be a 128 man bracket for each weight class at least. There is no feasible way to run an event of that magnitude with the NFHS/IHSAA rules unless it was at least 3 days long.

[casualwrestlingfan]

16 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The problem with that is there is no way you can make a two-day event work with this. There are around 100 1A and another 100 2A schools. That would be a 128 man bracket for each weight class at least. There is no feasible way to run an event of that magnitude with the NFHS/IHSAA rules unless it was at least 3 days long.

Why I have been wanting a change to the NFHS/IHSAA rules on the point system for competitions.

[Y2CJ41]

32 minutes ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

Why I have been wanting a change to the NFHS/IHSAA rules on the point system for competitions.

What good would that do? 

[XCard]

3 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

What good would that do? 

I am guessing he meant a change to the number of matches in one day? 

[casualwrestlingfan]

3 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

What good would that do? 

I'm meaning that it would be classified as the "Tournament Series" and not against the 18 points or whatever it is now for duals & tournaments. The team state dual tournament ran like football, basketball, baseball, and etc along with a classed individual tournament, and a single class individual tournament should all be exempt from the points rule. I believe a classed individual tournament added would benefit 2A/1A schools participation. It would be a good warm up for 3A/4A schools for our single class tournament. 

[Y2CJ41]

4 minutes ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

I'm meaning that it would be classified as the "Tournament Series" and not against the 18 points or whatever it is now for duals & tournaments. The team state dual tournament ran like football, basketball, baseball, and etc along with a classed individual tournament, and a single class individual tournament should all be exempt from the points rule. I believe a classed individual tournament added would benefit 2A/1A schools participation. It would be a good warm up for 3A/4A schools for our single class tournament. 

Having a classed state tournament then the single class event will never work. It has been tried ad nauseum in other states and always fails. No one wants to be crowned a "state champion" then the next week be told, "not really." It failed in our sacred basketball tournament, it has failed in states like Iowa and Florida recently. It just doesn't work.

 

The individual state tournament currently is not bound by the points rule. The team state duals is bound by it since it is not an IHSAA recognized state championship. When the team state dual tournament was recognized it was not bound by the points rule.

[casualwrestlingfan]

55 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Having a classed state tournament then the single class event will never work. It has been tried ad nauseum in other states and always fails. No one wants to be crowned a "state champion" then the next week be told, "not really." It failed in our sacred basketball tournament, it has failed in states like Iowa and Florida recently. It just doesn't work.

 

The individual state tournament currently is not bound by the points rule. The team state duals is bound by it since it is not an IHSAA recognized state championship. When the team state dual tournament was recognized it was not bound by the points rule.

I guess my mindset is different than most. I don't see being a 1A or etc champ any different than a Mishawaka champ or such. It's prestigious but not the ultimate goal. It would be a goal & something celebrated at the 1A & most 2A programs outside of Bellmont & others in their caliber. Just like the classed team state duals have become for AC, PH, and etc. It was hard to make it to the single class team state duals with Bellmont & Yorktown. 

Not being bound by points rule & recognized by the IHSAA regardless if they or the IHSWCA run it. However I'd limit it to just IHSWCA outside of the IHSAA in the not being bound category. 

[Galagore]

The reason our team state championships are a big deal is because that is the only team dual championship going. If we had each of the class champions wrestle each other to determine the "true" team champion, we would probably see a similar pattern follow in wrestling as did in basketball.