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blueandgold

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I finally understand why large schools dominate small schools in Indiana, and it’s because of the lack of resources or opportunities as other kids. Last night, at a club practice, there was a family that drove over an hour from Terre Haute to get some work in with some quality kids. To say, everyone has the same opportunity is a bit of a lie. Yes, equality is important, but equity is the thing we should be focusing on. Some kids need MORE than what they have, so as a state we should aim to give more in some way, but I just don’t know how yet. I’m guessing it would depend on coaches and how much they’re willing to expand. For example, Contenders has two different locations in West and South Indy metro areas, maybe a club like that could expand to other cities  depending on demand to help kids get better.

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25 minutes ago, blueandgold said:

I finally understand why large schools dominate small schools in Indiana, and it’s because of the lack of resources or opportunities as other kids. Last night, at a club practice, there was a family that drove over an hour from Terre Haute to get some work in with some quality kids. To say, everyone has the same opportunity is a bit of a lie. Yes, equality is important, but equity is the thing we should be focusing on. Some kids need MORE than what they have, so as a state we should aim to give more in some way, but I just don’t know how yet. I’m guessing it would depend on coaches and how much they’re willing to expand. For example, Contenders has two different locations in West and South Indy metro areas, maybe a club like that could expand to other cities  depending on demand to help kids get better.


I went to a “big school” in an area “known” for wrestling.. Drove an hour away for practice anyways, because the best in the area end up in the same room outside of school wrestling.


Not sure my school size had anything to do with me chasing down the best rooms and coaches in the area.

 

Just my thoughts. 

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26 minutes ago, DrunkJoeNamath said:


I went to a “big school” in an area “known” for wrestling.. Drove an hour away for practice anyways, because the best in the area end up in the same room outside of school wrestling.


Not sure my school size had anything to do with me chasing down the best rooms and coaches in the area.

 

Just my thoughts. 

Not everyone has the same support system. My family did not have the means or time to transport me for hours on weeknights and none of my teammates were doing that. I had to work year round junior and senior year to afford a car. Having these things local to you makes a huge difference.

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26 minutes ago, greco165 said:

Not everyone has the same support system. My family did not have the means or time to transport me for hours on weeknights and none of my teammates were doing that. I had to work year round junior and senior year to afford a car. Having these things local to you makes a huge difference.

Steven Lawrence and I were just talking about this the other day. In wrestling, you need a good support system to be successful.

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Consistency and having an awesome support system is essential. And if you have the luxury to live within 30 min of a high quality training facility I salute you. Take advantage of it! 
over in the union county indiana area there is not alot of off-season training available. You have local rtc but that is not enough. We drive my brother usually and hour to an hour and a half into Ohio to train at prodigy, centerville Ohio and other places. I know the fosters from connersville make a drive to legends of gold. Phillips from centerville and others from that team travel to CIA.

 

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45 minutes ago, greco165 said:

Not everyone has the same support system. My family did not have the means or time to transport me for hours on weeknights and none of my teammates were doing that. I had to work year round junior and senior year to afford a car. Having these things local to you makes a huge difference.


i bought my first car for $1200 after bussing tables for a summer. I’m sure there are dozens/hundreds of guys on this board who have the same exact story.


We piled into that thing for years!
 

if there are several like-minded guys around, they’ll end up where they need to be. We would stop in just about every town along the way to pick guys up. All of us came from different backgrounds, and none of us were wealthy. 
 

Looking back, that was one of the toughest rooms to ever exist in Indiana, yet only a couple guys were from the school we practiced at. Everyone wanted to be there and wrestle the best guys they could during the off-season. It showed when we competed.
 

In high school, when there’s always a guy on the team who has access to a car, “no accessibility” is just an easier way of saying “I wrestle 4 months out of the year. 

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12 minutes ago, blueandgold said:

Big schools = Better funding, support systems, and resources


Small schools = Opposite of all that, so have to travel long distances to get the same chance

This just isn't true across the board at all

 

There are plenty of large schools that do not have these things - just take a closer look.  According to my google maps, Ben Davis HS is 8 miles away from Brownsburg HS.  Yet the recent trajectory of their programs couldn't be much further apart.  All large schools are not equal - the "haves" are those programs where they have consistently built up a group of young wrestlers. The "have nots" are those where wrestling is an in-season sport and is an afterthought until the athletes are in high school.

 

Out of 224 athletes qualifying for the state tournament - instead of looking at large/small school disparity, let's see how many "programs" are churning out state qualifiers.  Now, maybe these are mostly large schools - but the point I'm trying to make is that people lump in all large schools together and all small schools - yet even within each group there are the programs excelling and there are many that are treading water.

 

First, let's set the bar high - teams with 6 or more qualifiers!  Then I'll add in those with 5 qualifiers, then 4, and finally teams with 3 qualifiers...

 

6+ Qualifiers

  • 6 teams
  • 46 wrestlers (20.5% of state qualifiers!)

Now add in teams with 5 to those numbers

  • 10 teams total (added 4 here)
  • 66 wrestlers (29.5% of qualifiers on teams with at least 5 qualifiers!)

Drop down another level, but still teams that are bringing 4 to state

  • 17 teams total
  • 94 wrestlers (42% of state qualifiers)

Finally - still is a great season to get 3 of your wrestlers all the way through to state, right??

  • 29 teams total (12 added here)
  • 130 wrestlers (58% of state qualifiers)
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19 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

Yeah someone should try to do something about this. SMH

I think I understand that you're shaking your head because there haven't been academy-type opportunities in NE Indiana

 

But what is your opinion on the Ben Davis / Brownsburg situation.  Both large enrollment.  Same vicinity with "access" to academies.  Very different participation and outcomes

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1 minute ago, base said:

I think I understand that you're shaking your head because there haven't been academy-type opportunities in NE Indiana

 

But what is your opinion on the Ben Davis / Brownsburg situation.  Both large enrollment.  Same vicinity with "access" to academies.  Very different participation and outcomes

The head shake wasn't for your comment. It was for the initial comment about someone should start something in other cities. I have a great group of volunteer coaches that are really trying to do exactly that. I know that I am not the only one. 

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Serious The Apprentice GIF by BBC 
 

Academies go where the demand is that’s point blank . Like any everyday business they gotta have $ coming in. The demand is wrestlers. They need full time wrestlers . They need wrestlers that train everyday . Don’t have full time wrestlers then that means there’s is no $ coming in to keep their doors open. 
 

Anybody can start a Academy. It can be in your basement, garage or if you got the funds in a building . First thing you gotta have is wrestlers . 
 

Think the Bassets Brothers have their own Academy in their family Basement . Lil’place but they produce the hammers yearly outta there in PA. 

Edited by TeamGarcia
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38 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

Serious The Apprentice GIF by BBC 
 

Academies go where the demand is that’s point blank . Like any everyday business they gotta have $ coming in. The demand is wrestlers. They need full time wrestlers . They need wrestlers that train everyday . Don’t have full time wrestlers then that means there’s is no $ coming in to keep their doors open. 
 

Anybody can start a Academy. It can be in your basement, garage or if you got the funds in a building . First thing you gotta have is wrestlers . 
 

Think the Bassets Brothers have their own Academy in their family Basement . Lil’place but they produce the hammers yearly outta there in PA. 

We have done it a little backwards. We are really trying to create those full time wrestlers. Which is why we are bringing big inspiring names like Kenny Monday to wrestlers locally. That and I just really like to meet the greats of our sports. I will say the whole thing has been very interesting. 

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Place 1A 2A 3A 4A
1st 1 1 2 10
2nd 0 3 4 7
3rd 0 1 1 12
4th 0 4 4 6
5th 3 4 2 5
6th 2 4 4 4
7th 2 5 1 6
8th 2 5 3 4
Placers 10 27 21 54
Qualifiers 19 22 30 41
Total 29 49 51 95

 

Approximate number of schools

1A- 96
2A- 91
3A- 61
4A- 36
 

The stats don't lie, small schools even with almost triple the number of sectional entries have far less success at the state finals.

 

The hard question...or maybe easy one is, why?

 

4A teams had 10 champions or the same number of placers as the bottom 96 schools in the state.

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Pretty easy.  Other than a few kids who wrestle all year around at our local (small) schools, most of the other kids already have a bat and glove on (or doing that boring Track and Field "sport").  How many Crown Point or Brownsburg wrestlers compete in 3 sports yearly?  Maybe a lot?  I honestly don't know.  Our wrestlers often don't get in the room until late November because of football.

 

This is why, IMO, the 1A and 2A schools might have a few "hammers" on the team (all year wrestlers or just extremely athletic), but overall lack the upper tier quality that a 4A school can produce.

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56 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

We have done it a little backwards. We are really trying to create those full time wrestlers. Which is why we are bringing big inspiring names like Kenny Monday to wrestlers locally. That and I just really like to meet the greats of our sports. I will say the whole thing has been very interesting. 

Your doing it right Andy. Anything for the kids and community. We’re smiling at you from #TheCounty . It takes time , eventually that time will pay off . It’s Coming ! 
 

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2 hours ago, aoberlin said:

The head shake wasn't for your comment. It was for the initial comment about someone should start something in other cities. I have a great group of volunteer coaches that are really trying to do exactly that. I know that I am not the only one. 

Wasn’t meant to be a slight at you. I didn’t mean for my comment to upset you either. I didn’t know. I apologize.

Edited by blueandgold
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2 hours ago, DrunkJoeNamath said:

 

In high school, when there’s always a guy on the team who has access to a car, “no accessibility” is just an easier way of saying “I wrestle 4 months out of the year. 


I think this statement is painting with a broad brush. Accessibility can be extremely difficult and expensive for small school wrestlers to be able to keep up with big school wrestling programs. It’s not impossible but $140 month academy fees, driving 30-60 miles to have a quality wrestling partner isn’t something that bigger school kids have to do as frequently. Having a local mat room of stud partners would be nice. As of now, I know my kid won’t have a quality partner next season, his junior year. We’ll spend the summer rolling at least 2 times a week somewhere but it probably won’t be local. It ain’t as easy as some would think and it doesn’t always mean the commitment of the athlete is lacking. It’s just hard. 

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5 minutes ago, blueandgold said:

Wasn’t meant to be a slight at you. I didn’t mean for my comment to upset you either. I didn’t know. I apologize.

I’m not thin skinned, I’m actually a little chubby. You are totally fine.  Just saying there are a ton of people in the trenches doing things for zero or negative gain trying to make a difference because they love the sport and what it does for kids. We are totally cool. 

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1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:
Place 1A 2A 3A 4A
1st 1 1 2 10
2nd 0 3 4 7
3rd 0 1 1 12
4th 0 4 4 6
5th 3 4 2 5
6th 2 4 4 4
7th 2 5 1 6
8th 2 5 3 4
Placers 10 27 21 54
Qualifiers 19 22 30 41
Total 29 49 51 95

 

Approximate number of schools

1A- 96
2A- 91
3A- 61
4A- 36
 

The stats don't lie, small schools even with almost triple the number of sectional entries have far less success at the state finals.

 

The hard question...or maybe easy one is, why?

 

4A teams had 10 champions or the same number of placers as the bottom 96 schools in the state.

We get it. Similar stats and numbers get posted on this site time and time again. Clearly the IHSAA is not going to change. So… the question is what can we do?? Oh wait… @aoberlin is trying something! This is why we are all rooting for him and supporting his efforts.

 

Support Andy and guys like him. Support RTCs or RWAs in smaller communities. No doubt that I choose to live in a heavily populated area, but I truly care about all of Indiana wrestling. Hopefully we can evolve and get more and more opportunities in smaller communities. 
 

Btw… my middle school team wrestled Cascade last night. They gave us all that we wanted. Those guys are not a flash in the pan. 1A…. You’ve been put on notice. My guys have started something special out there. It’s going to continue to grow. 
 

#LessStatsMoreDoing

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Kids at small schools can train all summer long at various places. The issue is when season starts most go backwards. With limited or no solid practice partners it's hard to keep up. That's one of two things. Look at the list of coaches at these schools. Look at the move ins at these large schools and more dominant teams. I been at this for along time. It would be awesome to coach under the lights. But to spend 30 plus years coaching my butt off is a slap in the face and my former wrestlers. 

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11 minutes ago, CFleshman said:

Kids at small schools can train all summer long at various places. The issue is when season starts most go backwards. With limited or no solid practice partners it's hard to keep up. That's one of two things. Look at the list of coaches at these schools. Look at the move ins at these large schools and more dominant teams. I been at this for along time. It would be awesome to coach under the lights. But to spend 30 plus years coaching my butt off is a slap in the face and my former wrestlers. 

This is huge.  The powerhouses stay powerhouses because they “breed” great wrestlers.   Those great wrestlers get to wrestle each other every night at practice.  The non powerhouse programs may only have 1 or 2 good/great wrestlers and the chances of them being near the same weight are slim.  Therefore they don’t get good competition each night at practice.   The best stay the best until you have a complete culture change.   Also almost all sports (except football usually) are encouraging kids to play that one sport year round.    Football coaches normally encourage kids to be multi sport.  Wrestling is no different.  It is becoming the baseball/soccer/basketball year round sport.  

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