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Is Jesse the best ever?


ontherise219

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I would say yes.  But it is hard to compare eras.  He's had so many more off-season, national tournament opportunities than some of the greats of the past that have enhanced his resume.  There was no Who's #1, Super 32, etc for guys like Lance Ellis, Alex Tsirtsis, Blake Maurer, Escobedo, etc.  They had Fargo and Sr Nationals and if they were lucky, the Dapper Dan to compete in on a national level.  

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I can only speak for what I’ve seen since 2010, but I would say yes, though multiple others from that time alone have a case. Chad Red was an undefeated 4xer and had possibly the largest victory in IN history. Jason Tsirtsis did lose twice as a freshman, but recovered for a title and then didn’t give up an offensive point his final three seasons if I remember correctly. It sounds crazy at the surface to say a 1xer could be the best, but you could also argue Nick Lee was by grade. A freshman loss to a senior Micic can mostly be excused, and nearly giving Red his only loss as a junior recovering from injury is as “good” as a loss can be.

 

That said, catch weight as seniors, I would slightly take Jesse over the bunch. That would be fun little 4-man bracket.

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Jesse is extremely good!!  I wish him the best at ohio state.  Its hard for me to compare wrestlers with there being so many weight classes. I was more active in wrestling in the early 80’s and the one guy that impressed me the most, was David Palmer.  His resume was impressive.   Im thankful that The state of Indiana is producing some fantastic wrestlers.  

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Agreed it’s hard to compare but I think there is an argument some of the 3x champs trump even some of the 4x champs. Howe, Bradley, and Humphrey, Parris, and Seltzer are so good. Also, I feel like Lance Ellis has to get serious consideration. 
 

Indiana should be proud. Seems to be a golden era of top tier talent. Just appreciate it. We are watching some spectacular talent. 

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1 hour ago, regionrat1 said:

Throw Andrew Howe in the mix - one loss to Reece Humphrey. If there was not someone named Jordan Burroughs we would be looking at Olympic medals. 

 

I agree with the rat, just the eye test, the gap between Andrew Howe and everyone else (regardless of weight) his junior and senior year was insane.

 

But Jesse Mendez has a win over Seltzer and Chad Red has a win over Nick Lee (injured or not) still impressive - so Mendez and Red have claim to the best win on their resume. And you can argue that since Howe top tier talent has increased exponentially so on paper Mendez likely had the overall tougher competition. 

Edited by SunDevils
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He's pretty darn good. Hypotheticals don't mean much as Indiana grappling has really progressed since Lance Ellis got his 4. 

 

Let's just say he's in the conversation for best ever. I still like Jason T but it's just an opinion, no concrete evidence is available and it's pure speculation at this point. Let's just enjoy Indiana has had some amazing top tier wrestlers the last 10 to 15 years. Time will tell if Mendez can maintain his excellence.

 

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3 hours ago, AdamsCoBuschhh said:

Drunk EMD guy at the Tin Roof Saturday in between sessions kept bragging Nick Lee by a tech over Mendez.  The guy almost caught hands from a Brownsburg group.

 

That's respect.

I'm a Mater Dei guy and I'm not drunk but... Right now? ... Today?... Nick Lee wins between Mendez and Lee. 

 

But Mendez is DAAAAAAAAANG GOOOOOOOD. 

 

No disrespect, don't want to argue, but I think NCAA champ vs high school 4 xer is a tall hill to climb for the younger wrestler. I could be wrong but I'm taking Lee.

 

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Best ever. We can talk about excluding outside wrestling, but how do you do that? What he has done as a high school wrestler both in the state and out of state is beyond what any other Indiana wrestler has ever done, or could've done. He almost won U23 Nationals as a freakin' 17-year-old!!! I'm not saying he'll be better than Nick Lee is now, but as a high schooler he is unmatched by any other Indiana high schooler... Ever.

 

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He's on the "Mount Rushmore" of Indiana wrestling legends for sure. Hard to compare eras, especially with how big travel wrestling and tournies have gotten in the last ten years alone. He's a top legend all day, though. 

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2 hours ago, KoontzDaddy said:

Best ever. We can talk about excluding outside wrestling, but how do you do that? What he has done as a high school wrestler both in the state and out of state is beyond what any other Indiana wrestler has ever done, or could've done. He almost won U23 Nationals as a freakin' 17-year-old!!! I'm not saying he'll be better than Nick Lee is now, but as a high schooler he is unmatched by any other Indiana high schooler... Ever.

 

Jason Tsirtsis got 4th at olympic trials as a 17 year old, beating NCAA Champion Darrion Caldwell. Also during high school beat the #2 kid in the country at his weight class 22-8. My Crown Point bias is really showing, hard to pick between the two. I like Jason for folkstyle, and Jesse in freestyle at high school. 

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26 minutes ago, igotcaught said:

Jason Tsirtsis got 4th at olympic trials as a 17 year old, beating NCAA Champion Darrion Caldwell. Also during high school beat the #2 kid in the country at his weight class 22-8. My Crown Point bias is really showing, hard to pick between the two. I like Jason for folkstyle, and Jesse in freestyle at high school. 

I know it's been a few years but a couple minor, but important corrections....

Jason was 18 years old when he wrestled in the Last Chance Qualifier for the Olympic Trials and defeated Caldwell. This was NOT the trials, but a tournament that if you placed in the top 2 you qualified for the trials. There is a HUGE difference between the two events.

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12 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

I know it's been a few years but a couple minor, but important corrections....

Jason was 18 years old when he wrestled in the Last Chance Qualifier for the Olympic Trials and defeated Caldwell. This was NOT the trials, but a tournament that if you placed in the top 2 you qualified for the trials. There is a HUGE difference between the two events.

Good call. Still though how many high schoolers in Indiana beat D1 NCAA champions?! Also beating the #2 kid in the country at his weight class by 14 is an insane level of domination.

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Jason Tsirtsis senior year was one of the best I can remember.  He won everything he was in and by wide margins against high school wrestlers.  I remember Tsirtsis bumping up to 160 against Steveson and majoring him during a dual meet.  

 

Over the 4 years both a questionable loss  but both beat a returning state champ as Freshman in the state finals.  Maybe slight edge to Mendez over the 4 years but Tsirtsis senior year was really good.

Edited by smitty11
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15 minutes ago, smitty11 said:

Jason Tsirtsis senior year was one of the best I can remember.  He won everything he was in and by wide margins against high school wrestlers.  I remember Tsirtsis bumping up to 160 against Steveson and majoring him during a dual meet.  

 

Over the 4 years both a questionable loss  but both beat a returning state champ as Freshman in the state finals.  Maybe slight edge to Mendez over the 4 years but Tsirtsis senior year was really good.

I think the question needs to be made more clear. Are we talking freestyle, folkstyle, or overall? Are we asking the best ever overall career start to finish or who reached the highest skill level while still in high school. Many variables in the argument of Indiana’s best ever. 

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20 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I'm a Mater Dei guy and I'm not drunk but... Right now? ... Today?... Nick Lee wins between Mendez and Lee. 

 

But Mendez is DAAAAAAAAANG GOOOOOOOD. 

 

No disrespect, don't want to argue, but I think NCAA champ vs high school 4 xer is a tall hill to climb for the younger wrestler. I could be wrong but I'm taking Lee.

 

 

Oh geez today??  Nick Lee easy.  I think the EMD mob was talking about head to head both still in HS.

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