Jump to content

Indiana Hoosiers


Recommended Posts

To be Honest here ,does indiana have a chance to win a big ten dual this year? I think  not . 
If the competition puts their starters in, I can’t believe that it is possible with the lineup Indiana has shown so far this year. Granted, duals are not an indication of how they do in the big dance, but it is part of recruiting, as an indication of room depth for prospects.  While I think this squad is improving, the rest of the conference bottom feeders are improving at a faster pace with improved recruiting. Indiana can’t seem to build that first big class. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marylan……… d ? 

 

Stretch that out a bit because they have shown some spark at some weights and they added a few good wrestlers . I think it’ll be a good dual. 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Disco said:

To be Honest here ,does indiana have a chance to win a big ten dual this year? I think  not . 
If the competition puts their starters in, I can’t believe that it is possible with the lineup Indiana has shown so far this year. Granted, duals are not an indication of how they do in the big dance, but it is part of recruiting, as an indication of room depth for prospects.  While I think this squad is improving, the rest of the conference bottom feeders are improving at a faster pace with improved recruiting. Indiana can’t seem to build that first big class. 

Lets go in-depth WHY others are

 

When you say “improving at a faster pace with improved recruiting” ?  
 

To me it starts with practice facilities, Where does the team practice at ? First thing you look at is big ol’ Assembly Hall . In the basement ? Yea… basically sums it up there. I could be wrong but I think Indiana is the only team that practices in a basement . Look elsewhere it’s State of Art practice facilities. 
 

Kids are drawn to the nice practice rooms, this isn’t 1950’s . Kids now days want the best. Some HS practice facilities are nicer than what Indiana University has . I’m not lying here, to get some of these Top Recruits they gotta invest . Until then it’s a na, I’ll pass. Lil’Johnny looking at another school. #amiright ? 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Spell check
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Disco said:

So practice facilities? Ok lm not privy to others around the conference. But I’ll take your word. 

Gotta sell your program, best way to sell your program is investing in the foundation of it . Kids see the investment, now maybe they want invest themselves into it . Other B1G programs both big & small tier have . I think it’s a big reason “why” ? 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Spell check
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

Gotta sell your program, best way to sell your program is investing in the foundation of it . Kids see the investment, now maybe they want invest themselves into it . Other B1G programs both big & small tier have . I think it’s a big reason “why” ? 

I agree with you about facilities being important.  Just curious, and you obviously don't owe me or anybody else an answer, but IU had the same facilities when your son committed to and went there and they were able to land him when he was a high profile in state recruit.  I'm curious what drew him to IU in the first place if they have lower tier facilities (which I believe they do).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He choose IU because he thought at the time the IU Coaching Staff (Angel, Isaac Jordan & Mike Dixon) would get him to where he needed to be at the next level. Obviously that didn’t work out the 3 years he was there . He needed change. He had to what’s best for him . 



 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Repeat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes ,and so facilities is one of the things that a high schooler looks at. Not the only thing ,obviously ,because your son seemed to overlook this one negative of the Hoosier program. What else does a coach of a state school need to attract the best? Purdue seems to have the same problems IU has. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Facilities 

2. Coaching Staff 

3. RTC 

4. Starts back to recruiting, gotta have training partners that’s going to push them better. 
 

Idea… for IU & Purdue, why not have one RTC instead of splitting kids ?  Join as one, no division. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems like pu has all this. Iu lacks one thing. Still not attractive enough to build the rooms up.  I guess every one that goes to these two institutions, because they are low on the best programs totem poles, think they should be in the starting lineup. Thus the good ones that don’t start or can’t break thru, leave instead of waiting, unlike programs such as PSU, Minn, mich, Iowa. Where guys who would normally start as sophomore or juniors anywhere else, stick around and wrestle 1 or2 years for these top programs. This gets back to having a good room for the starters to get better. Vicious circle that causes the best programs to prosper and the little guys to to continue to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Disco said:

Seems like pu has all this. Iu lacks one thing. Still not attractive enough to build the rooms up.  I guess every one that goes to these two institutions, because they are low on the best programs totem poles, think they should be in the starting lineup. Thus the good ones that don’t start or can’t break thru, leave instead of waiting, unlike programs such as PSU, Minn, mich, Iowa. Where guys who would normally start as sophomore or juniors anywhere else, stick around and wrestle 1 or2 years for these top programs. This gets back to having a good room for the starters to get better. Vicious circle that causes the best programs to prosper and the little guys to to continue to be.

Purdue is within that 2nd tier of the B1G, past couple years they have been trending up. They’re getting the Top 15 recruits.
 

Both RTC’s need major work in my opinion. They need a Heavy Hitter International Wrestler or Coach to take a chance on them . Get that support. Another good reason why Indiana lost a good recruit because the downward spiral of RTC programs . 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A funded RTC, I can see the importance with the added perks for wrestlers. Skirting some of the NCAA oversight. Again , another negative for both programs thus far. Purdues assertion is minuscule in comparison to where the top programs are. I can’t diminish the great win over Nebraska but I’m not going to say Purdue is in that tier of programs now.  Like wise with a great historic program like Michigan State, they are still well under the top tier of programs.  I’m not so sure Indiana will ever get to where Purdue is at this point in time. And at the pace Purdue is going, it will take another set of coaches lifetime to get there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got the B1G in 3 tiers right now and for a few years been trending this way with the 14 schools 

 

Tier 1 - Always Good 

1. Penn St. 

2. Iowa 

3. Ohio State 

 

Tier 2 - Good, with a down year every so often 

1. Minnesota 

2. Michigan 

3. Nebraska 

4. Rutgers 

5. Wisconsin 

 

Tier 3 - Every few years they bring it, but usually always outside looking in 

1. Purdue 

2. Northwestern

3. Illinois 

(3.) Michigan St. 

(3). Maryland 

(3). Indiana 

 

The (3’s) in Tier 3 sometimes beat each other, usually get a B1G dual win yearly when the go at it . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Separation from Tier 1 & 2 is widening every year in my opinion. Michigan might crack that Top 3 with the squad they got now and transfer. Minnesota always has a few hammers in the lineup to sometimes sneak in the Top 3 every once awhile . 
 

Tier 2, teams almost always has good teams yearly, will hammer most Non B1G Conference Champions head to head . Those 5 teams flip flop wins head 2 head yearly. 
 

Tier 3, Top 3 will sometimes sneak in that Tier 2 and get a win over Tier 2 team. Then fall back to Tier 3 after a year or 2 being in competitive field . 
 

Bottom 3-4 Tier 3, seems to be always there . Maybe sneak up there Tier 3 Top 3. 
 

Just what I see in the Past 10-15 years . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m going to have to agree here. Seems pretty constant of late. Not much deviation. 
The whole national dual scene is pretty boring if you ask me. Individual matchups can get interesting within a meet but only if they don’t duck each other.  Same teams always win. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed on your rankings Garcia - made me stop and think about what factors go into their success.  I have a few areas that came to mind:

 

1. Recruiting locale - do they recruit nationwide or mostly local (which isn't bad if your "local" is full of studs

2. Recruiting talent - are you bringing in national-level wrestlers or state-caliber guys

3. Development - once wrestlers come to the program, do they show further progression

 

Thinking of a few of these teams, here's how I see a few of them (mostly, although there are exceptions).  Would like to know how you see these as you are more familiar with the college scene, or anyone else's thoughts (Disco, Thor)...

  1. Penn State - National recruiting, High Level, High Progression
  2. Iowa - Mixed recruiting, Mixed level of guys, Mixed progression - to me they develop to "Iowa-style" wrestling
  3. Ohio State - National recruiting, High Level, not sure what I think on progression here - mixed I guess?
  4. Minnesota - Local recruiting, Mixed level, Med/High progression
  5. Michigan - National recruiting, High level wrestlers, Med/High progression
  6. Wisconsin - Local recruiting, Medium level talent, Medium progression

.....

 

Purdue - Mixed recruiting, Medium talent, Med/High progression

Indiana - Local recruiting, Medium talent, Low progression

 

Stacked up against other teams in Big 10 - I like where Purdue has gone with progression of their wrestlers - I think they get the most out of the talent they have.  They have gone more national with their recruiting, but not necessarily bringing in super high level guys.  I do think that Neinhaus may be an exception here - he's got a high ceiling I think.  Kendall Coleman has looked great too but seems to have plateaued this season (just realized while typing that "plateaued" has 4 vowels in a row! 🤯).  I thought Streck or 

 

Indiana is getting a lot of local guys, but like Purdue hasn't landed the highest level in-state wrestlers.  The progression of their wrestlers doesn't seem to be great to me at this point, but I am hoping that Escobedo can turn that around.  Washington has adapted very well to the college wrestling scene and he is the primary bright point on the squad.

 

For our state colleges, the tipping point will be getting maybe two of the highest in-state guys to go there, and to have success.  I had hopes that Allred, Seltzer, Parris or Carroll would choose one of them.  Mendez and Lee seemed to be a foregone conclusion to go out of state

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

... Michigan might crack that Top 3 with the squad they got now and transfer...
 

 

 

I actually agree with your breakdown from a big picture point of view, but think that Michigan is clearly in Tier 1 this year.

 

Big Dual with OSU tomorrow night & PSU on 1/21/22 will certainly tell-the-tale that's for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SIACfan said:

 

I actually agree with your breakdown from a big picture point of view, but think that Michigan is clearly in Tier 1 this year.

 

Big Dual with OSU tomorrow night & PSU on 1/21/22 will certainly tell-the-tale that's for sure.

Yes, Michigan is this year but next year will they, year after that ?
Only those Top 3 (Iowa, Penn St., Ohios St.) at Tier 1 stays that good every year it seems to me . Michigan comes and goes, Minnesota. Then they go back . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, base said:

Agreed on your rankings Garcia - made me stop and think about what factors go into their success.  I have a few areas that came to mind:

 

1. Recruiting locale - do they recruit nationwide or mostly local (which isn't bad if your "local" is full of studs

2. Recruiting talent - are you bringing in national-level wrestlers or state-caliber guys

3. Development - once wrestlers come to the program, do they show further progression

 

Thinking of a few of these teams, here's how I see a few of them (mostly, although there are exceptions).  Would like to know how you see these as you are more familiar with the college scene, or anyone else's thoughts (Disco, Thor)...

  1. Penn State - National recruiting, High Level, High Progression
  2. Iowa - Mixed recruiting, Mixed level of guys, Mixed progression - to me they develop to "Iowa-style" wrestling
  3. Ohio State - National recruiting, High Level, not sure what I think on progression here - mixed I guess?
  4. Minnesota - Local recruiting, Mixed level, Med/High progression
  5. Michigan - National recruiting, High level wrestlers, Med/High progression
  6. Wisconsin - Local recruiting, Medium level talent, Medium progression

.....

 

Purdue - Mixed recruiting, Medium talent, Med/High progression

Indiana - Local recruiting, Medium talent, Low progression

 

Stacked up against other teams in Big 10 - I like where Purdue has gone with progression of their wrestlers - I think they get the most out of the talent they have.  They have gone more national with their recruiting, but not necessarily bringing in super high level guys.  I do think that Neinhaus may be an exception here - he's got a high ceiling I think.  Kendall Coleman has looked great too but seems to have plateaued this season (just realized while typing that "plateaued" has 4 vowels in a row! 🤯).  I thought Streck or 

 

Indiana is getting a lot of local guys, but like Purdue hasn't landed the highest level in-state wrestlers.  The progression of their wrestlers doesn't seem to be great to me at this point, but I am hoping that Escobedo can turn that around.  Washington has adapted very well to the college wrestling scene and he is the primary bright point on the squad.

 

For our state colleges, the tipping point will be getting maybe two of the highest in-state guys to go there, and to have success.  I had hopes that Allred, Seltzer, Parris or Carroll would choose one of them.  Mendez and Lee seemed to be a foregone conclusion to go out of state

 

When you say Iowa is mixed recruiting, I’ll say National Recruiting, High Progression. Half their team is or recruited in from SEM or Pennsylvania wrestlers . Yes they get their Iowa home grown wrestlers, but every State gets that . At 125 Ayalah … spell check is that Iowa home grown wrestler. 
Those top 3 teams stay Top 3 because they are recruiting the Nations best wrestlers #1’s at their HS weights . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, base said:

Agreed on your rankings Garcia - made me stop and think about what factors go into their success.  I have a few areas that came to mind:

 

1. Recruiting locale - do they recruit nationwide or mostly local (which isn't bad if your "local" is full of studs

2. Recruiting talent - are you bringing in national-level wrestlers or state-caliber guys

3. Development - once wrestlers come to the program, do they show further progression

 

Thinking of a few of these teams, here's how I see a few of them (mostly, although there are exceptions).  Would like to know how you see these as you are more familiar with the college scene, or anyone else's thoughts (Disco, Thor)...

  1. Penn State - National recruiting, High Level, High Progression
  2. Iowa - Mixed recruiting, Mixed level of guys, Mixed progression - to me they develop to "Iowa-style" wrestling
  3. Ohio State - National recruiting, High Level, not sure what I think on progression here - mixed I guess?
  4. Minnesota - Local recruiting, Mixed level, Med/High progression
  5. Michigan - National recruiting, High level wrestlers, Med/High progression
  6. Wisconsin - Local recruiting, Medium level talent, Medium progression

.....

 

Purdue - Mixed recruiting, Medium talent, Med/High progression

Indiana - Local recruiting, Medium talent, Low progression

 

Stacked up against other teams in Big 10 - I like where Purdue has gone with progression of their wrestlers - I think they get the most out of the talent they have.  They have gone more national with their recruiting, but not necessarily bringing in super high level guys.  I do think that Neinhaus may be an exception here - he's got a high ceiling I think.  Kendall Coleman has looked great too but seems to have plateaued this season (just realized while typing that "plateaued" has 4 vowels in a row! 🤯).  I thought Streck or 

 

Indiana is getting a lot of local guys, but like Purdue hasn't landed the highest level in-state wrestlers.  The progression of their wrestlers doesn't seem to be great to me at this point, but I am hoping that Escobedo can turn that around.  Washington has adapted very well to the college wrestling scene and he is the primary bright point on the squad.

 

For our state colleges, the tipping point will be getting maybe two of the highest in-state guys to go there, and to have success.  I had hopes that Allred, Seltzer, Parris or Carroll would choose one of them.  Mendez and Lee seemed to be a foregone conclusion to go out of state

 

I think after that your Michigan, Minnesota, get a few National recruits, local recruits, mixed progression to where they can compete at a high level but stay in Tier 2 B1G level . Michigan is definitely on the rise, their HS is producing HAMMERS for these college to feast on . You see it in the National Rankings almost every weight is a Michigan HS wrestler. If they can keep the talent in Michigan Colleges they be a force in the B1G conference 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, TeamGarcia said:

I think after that your Michigan, Minnesota, get a few National recruits, local recruits, mixed progression to where they can compete at a high level but stay in Tier 2 B1G level . Michigan is definitely on the rise, their HS is producing HAMMERS for these college to feast on . You see it in the National Rankings almost every weight is a Michigan HS wrestler. If they can keep the talent in Michigan Colleges they be a force in the B1G conference 

But…. Then again Iowa St. is already feasting on Michigan HS recruits. 
 

Those B1G Tier 2 & 3 teams will stay at that level for many, many years or decades . Mention up there in a post Those Top 3 teams are widening that gap between them every single year . 
 

Why ….?
 

1. State of the Art Facilities 

2. Coaches 

3. Top 5 RTC in the Country 

4. High National Recruits coming in 

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY THEY ARE WINNING NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS or have Multiple National Champs 

6. Winning 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SIACfan said:

 

I actually agree with your breakdown from a big picture point of view, but think that Michigan is clearly in Tier 1 this year.

 

Big Dual with OSU tomorrow night & PSU on 1/21/22 will certainly tell-the-tale that's for sure.

And these matches will only tell the tale if all the starters show. Not likely. The Ohio st. Coach is especially good at 🦆ing wrestlers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Disco said:

I think Nebraska is up there with National recruiting.

Yup, with holes in their lineup to “develop” wrestlers. Top 3 have zero time to develop wrestlers . They expect their National Recruits Wrestlers to fill the void ASAP. Most step right in and fill in nicely . 

Edited by TeamGarcia
Spell check
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TeamGarcia said:

But…. Then again Iowa St. is already feasting on Michigan HS recruits. 
 

Those B1G Tier 2 & 3 teams will stay at that level for many, many years or decades . Mention up there in a post Those Top 3 teams are widening that gap between them every single year . 
 

Why ….?
 

1. State of the Art Facilities 

2. Coaches 

3. Top 5 RTC in the Country 

4. High National Recruits coming in 

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY THEY ARE WINNING NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS or have Multiple National Champs 

6. Winning 

 

I would put coaching #1, it isn't a coincidence that PSU became so dominate after Sanderson arrived. Or why OK State (with Smith) has remained a powerhouse despite not being in the B1G conference. I'm not saying facilities don't matter, but IMO that would be lower of the list of reasons why the top programs stay on top. I would put recruiting & RTC programs ahead of facilities as well. But I suppose facilities & RTC programs probably go hand in hand.

 

Another big factor, IMO, of why the top teams are distancing themselves from the next level of teams is social media. Kids these days have an endless supply of exposure to anything & everything. 30 (even 20) years ago you had much more regional allegiance. Kids grew up dreaming of participating for their in state school more. It is the same that is happening in college football. The big boys get all the top recruits from all across the country. 20-30 years ago there was much more parity because more of the top kids stayed regional.

 

All of this is simply my opinion obviously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.