nmsmelby Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I have heard about this past couple of years, saw it was on track this morning. Is this definitely happening? Paycheck141 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Ratliff Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Yes nmsmelby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdunham149 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Where can information on this be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Nice... pushed this for years and was told it would never happen! Glad someone came to their senses! KoontzDaddy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleising Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I have looked and have not found a qualifier for Middle School State. Am i missing it? Just looking for help. Thank in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmsmelby Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 https://www.trackwrestling.com/Login.jsp?TIM=1639091385425&twSessionId=pmkduwfhzt&tournamentIndex=2&state=17 jleising 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdunham149 Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Will there be potentially a flyer or any kind of information like that coming out? Also any clue on how many they will place at the qualifier that will move onto the state tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleising Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Thank you for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 On 12/9/2021 at 11:35 AM, TripleB said: Nice... pushed this for years and was told it would never happen! Glad someone came to their senses! Dustin, You know that I have all the respect in the world for you, and this is a serious question… why is this a good thing? Back in the day.. my oldest son made the finals two years in a row wrestling mostly on half mats in New Castle. One year we left at 10pm and at 11pm the next. The brackets were huge and perhaps a change was needed. The last three years, we wrestled in better facilities with more and full mats. They even added more weight classes. Brackets were waaaay smaller and we now have more mats. My other son won this past year and we were home fairly early. I think that some of our top kids will not want to take an additional week off of their national schedule to do a qualifier. We already had a bunch of our top guys skip out on the national team trip last year. I think we need to get all of those guys on the same page. We should have a top 6 team at heartland year in a year out. I could be wrong… I would like to hear form the parents of the kids on the top middle schoolers list on this topic. Again, nothing but respect for you and the fine members of our coaches association. I have lead and coached many times in Heartland. Heck.. I even started that trip out there. I would like to see a unified team go out there and kill it. Just don’t see this as the answer. Justin Ratliff, Chuckbuck, Tcarter and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Mattyb said: Dustin, You know that I have all the respect in the world for you, and this is a serious question… why is this a good thing? Back in the day.. my oldest son made the finals two years in a row wrestling mostly on half mats in New Castle. One year we left at 10pm and at 11pm the next. The brackets were huge and perhaps a change was needed. The last three years, we wrestled in better facilities with more and full mats. They even added more weight classes. Brackets were waaaay smaller and we now have more mats. My other son won this past year and we were home fairly early. I think that some of our top kids will not want to take an additional week off of their national schedule to do a qualifier. We already had a bunch of our top guys skip out on the national team trip last year. I think we need to get all of those guys on the same page. We should have a top 6 team at heartland year in a year out. I could be wrong… I would like to hear form the parents of the kids on the top middle schoolers list on this topic. Again, nothing but respect for you and the fine members of our coaches association. I have lead and coached many times in Heartland. Heck.. I even started that trip out there. I would like to see a unified team go out there and kill it. Just don’t see this as the answer. I agree with you 100% about not wanting to do a qualifier. I’ve already heard of some top kids not doing this for this reason. I have thought the past two years were perfectly fine and we have been the last match both years we have attended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Curious about why there is a need for a qualifier as well. I imagine it will be $30 plus $10 admission. Great way for someone to raise some cheese, but I am not sure why they need this. At CG, I think most weights were done by 5:00 or 6:00. JORVILLE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmoney125 Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 I'd be ok with a qualifier if there was some kind of auto qualifying criteria for the top tier kids. The top tier kids are probably off doing a bigger tournament and honestly, what you'll probably see, is over time, the middle school state will start to be looked at by those kids as a secondary tourney that they aren't going to essentially give up 2 weeks in their schedule for. Just my opinion though. I could be off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Cmoney125 said: I'd be ok with a qualifier if there was some kind of auto qualifying criteria for the top tier kids. The top tier kids are probably off doing a bigger tournament and honestly, what you'll probably see, is over time, the middle school state will start to be looked at by those kids as a secondary tourney that they aren't going to essentially give up 2 weeks in their schedule for. Just my opinion though. I could be off base. I definitely agree and wish they would implement a rule that returning placers or Top 3 automatically qualify. I think they would want the best kids to attend and not miss because of the two week commitment. This is not just a local tournament it’s about getting the best Indiana kids all there to compete. Tcarter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdunham149 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 I can see some both good and bad that go along with having a qualifying tournament. The bad can be that it would deter some of those top tier kids from wrestling in it because of the back to back weekend commitment of it. I agree that it would be beneficial to have some automatic qualifying criteria for those kids. The good would be that it would give the mid to lower level kids an opportunity to get some more mat time against some tougher competition that they may not see during a regular middle school season with also a shorter drive than having to drive all the way to Center Grove from Northern or Southern Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdickman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) I know that Rev does not want to give up two weekends for MS State. He is a 2x returning champion and should not have to qualify. Edited December 13, 2021 by Sdickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 @Mattyb It's really two things - #1 Time, MS state used to drag passed midnight and there always seemed to be a snow storm. I one year we got home at like 3 or 4 am. #2 encourage more participation, as a parent I didn't waste my time or money last year for my 5th grader to go 0-2 and I wasn't going to this year, but now with a qualifier in place. It makes more sense and we will probably try it out. More kids might take a stab why whittling down MS state to truly guys that belong there. You will also now know what you are getting, 32 man bracket, the host facility can plan accordingly and it's all good. Finally, not to be mean or close minded but we don't hand out state qualifiers at High School, so why do it at MS? I bet Mendez can go find better competition than Sectionals or Regionals or Semi-State, but that's the process. It's about goal setting and prioritization - do you want to shoot for a Middle School State Championship or do you have bigger goals? KoontzDaddy and Mattyb 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORVILLE Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, TripleB said: @Mattyb It's really two things - #1 Time, MS state used to drag passed midnight and there always seemed to be a snow storm. I one year we got home at like 3 or 4 am. #2 encourage more participation, as a parent I didn't waste my time or money last year for my 5th grader to go 0-2 and I wasn't going to this year, but now with a qualifier in place. It makes more sense and we will probably try it out. More kids might take a stab why whittling down MS state to truly guys that belong there. You will also now know what you are getting, 32 man bracket, the host facility can plan accordingly and it's all good. Finally, not to be mean or close minded but we don't hand out state qualifiers at High School, so why do it at MS? I bet Mendez can go find better competition than Sectionals or Regionals or Semi-State, but that's the process. It's about goal setting and prioritization - do you want to shoot for a Middle School State Championship or do you have bigger goals? Seeding out 12 kids at 3 qualifiers kinda waters it down . That makes up to 36 spots. Last year only 2 weight classes had even over that number. If really doing a qualifier 4 locations and take the top 4 and run it like semi state leading up to State and get full 16 man/woman brackets . With 12 spots I can see almost every location getting a spot the following weekend. Tcarter and #TheBrand 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, JORVILLE said: Seeding out 12 kids at 3 qualifiers kinda waters it down . That makes up to 36 spots. Last year only 2 weight classes had even over that number. If really doing a qualifier 4 locations and take the top 4 and run it like semi state leading up to State and get full 16 man/woman brackets . With 12 spots I can see almost every location getting a spot the following weekend. Makes sense, I've been out of the MS loop for awhile. I like the 4 locations and take top 4, I think that might have been what I used to push. Really make MS state something special. Have faceoffs, finals by themselves, etc. Justin Ratliff and JORVILLE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, JORVILLE said: Seeding out 12 kids at 3 qualifiers kinda waters it down . That makes up to 36 spots. Last year only 2 weight classes had even over that number. If really doing a qualifier 4 locations and take the top 4 and run it like semi state leading up to State and get full 16 man/woman brackets . With 12 spots I can see almost every location getting a spot the following weekend. Same issues I’ve had with the Freshman/Sophomore state qualifier. I like the idea of a qualifier to get more interest from the area wrestler and it provides a better seeding process. But it really should be designed to widdle down some of the competition to those that can possibly place at the state level. Ideally I’d say advance 4-6 if they would have four locations. With three location I guess maybe top 6-8 would work though the numbers get a little off with state bracketing from three locations. Any more than that feels more like a money grab than a qualification process since so many will advance to the next round. Keeping the qualification numbers reasonable would also make qualifying for MS state an actual accomplishment for some to shoot for rather than just a payment step in the state process. Edited December 14, 2021 by MattM JORVILLE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven27 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 The other part that is hard is that there are middle school tournaments that are starting and some wrestle on the 22nd. Thats a lot of wrestling in two days. There is very little information out about the qualifier. How many are they taking from each. I read 32 man bracket, I'm not great at math but how do you get 32 out of three qualifiers? I like the idea of a qualifier personally. I think the state should be seeded for sure but I wish it would have been planned a little better. But, anything that is new will need some tweaks the following year. I am glad that people are putting effort into the wrestling in the state of Indiana. I realize that there are several putting in time and effort that are passionate about this sport and want to see it grow. I do think more people will attend a qualifier that maybe would not go to the state. I think it is hard to find the middle ground that helps the best but brings up the bottom. I believe that is the key to growing the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven27 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 IHSWCA The IHSWCA Middle School State Championships is introducing a State Championship Series with a set of qualifiers added to the tournament. This year, the qualifiers will be held on 1/23/22 at three locations. Plymouth High School will host the North Qualifier, the Central Qualifier will be held at Warren Central High School, and Jeffersonville High School will host the South Qualifier. Top 12 wrestlers in each weight class will qualify for the State Championships at Center Grove High School on 1/30/22. Place winners of each qualifier will be separated and seeded accordingly in the Championship tournament bracket. We feel that there are several reasons that this model will benefit our middle school wrestlers in the state, this is our mission: 1. Create an objective method to separate wrestlers in the championship tournament bracket. 2. Promote a more local opportunity for wrestlers in the area of the Qualifiers. 3. Grow the total number of participants in the tournament as a whole. 4. Allow an entry level opportunity for less experienced middle school wrestlers. Our vision of the future: 1. Add more qualifiers in the future. 2. Showcase the championships. 3. Continue to grow the number of middle school wrestlers. 4. Provide some guidance and unity for our middle school wrestling in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 My point has been confirmed within this thread and with multiple conversations with the parents of some of our best kids. They are not willing to take an additional week off from the national scene and make weight here to be able to compete for a state title. I think the fix is fairly easy. If a wrestler placed 4th or higher in the prior year, they should earn a qualifier exemption. I think this slight tweak will help you achieve your number 4 goal …. Unity! We are not United at this time. We need to fix this. Rewarding out top guys for their prior achievements and allowing them an additional weekend to seek out top national competition will help unite (IMO). Tcarter and JORVILLE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Are you starting Indiana Unite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyb Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, TripleB said: Are you starting Indiana Unite? Ive done my time on the road. Busy coaching local middle school and traveling to watch my actual kids on weekends. With that said... I would love to see our top guys come together and kick the crap out of everyone. I do happen to coach a middle school team with a lot of good wrestlers. I have also been lucky enough to coach at many national events with our top guys (for many years). I want them to wrestle at middle school state and represent our state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmoney125 Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 11:50 AM, Sdickman said: I know that Rev does not want to give up two weekends for MS State. He is a 2x returning champion and should not have to qualify Angelo will not be giving up 2 weekends for it either. Sdickman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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