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Knowing Indiana’s postseason tournament structure, there is no doubt that our state tournament may be one of the hardest to qualify for in America due to the lack of true consolation rounds or tournament seeding. With that knowledge, do our kids beg to be graded on a curve in comparison to others from different states or do our state qualifying wrestlers and place-winners deserve MORE recognition based on our qualifying procedures? We’ve seen state champions from other states come here and not qualify or not make it to the top of the podium because of the tournament structure. What are some of your thoughts? 

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NJ, PA, IL, and OH are universally considered to have more depth and talent - national rankings prove this. Therefore,  generally speaking more talent/depth regardless of tournament format equals a more difficult tournament. 
 

My initial thought is don’t conflate the ideas of degree of difficulty with margin for error. 
 

I guess if you see a lot more DNP and 6-8 state placers start to dominate national tournaments or IHPO then your point might be stronger. 
 

Indiana is a strong wrestling state and getting better all the time. But the depth still isn’t comparable to some of its neighbors. 

Edited by SunDevils
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12 hours ago, SunDevils said:

NJ, PA, IL, and OH are universally considered to have more depth and talent - national rankings prove this. Therefore,  generally speaking more talent/depth regardless of tournament format equals a more difficult tournament. 
 

My initial thought is don’t conflate the ideas of degree of difficulty with margin for error. 
 

I guess if you see a lot more DNP and 6-8 state placers start to dominate national tournaments or IHPO then your point might be stronger. 
 

Indiana is a strong wrestling state and getting better all the time. But the depth still isn’t comparable to some of its neighbors. 

California.  One class.  They usually have some all timers come up through the college ranks.

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I spend a lot of time in Ohio. Over the last couple decades, I have been to some of the best elementary, middle school, high school and collage events over there. I actually just got back from there yesterday. I have seen our best Indiana kids beat some of the best Ohio kids. I know our top kids are just as good as their top kids. I have spent time in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Illinois too. I see it the same there too. My family also had the privilege of going through college recruiting process and have had the opportunity to pick the minds of some greatest to ever wrestle in college and internationally. Our state tournament and champs are held in high regard for what they go through to become a state champ. With that said… people see that our system as funky and know that the podium does not represent the best 8 kids. And with our travel restrictions, Indiana kids MUST go to good off season stuff and beat other top guys to get their full due. Personally I know my son only won one title, but during the off season he went out every other weekend and beat state champs from all over. This is where he got recognized, got nationally ranked, and earned some really good college offers. 
 

I will take our top guys against any other top guys from any other state. We will not win them all but will win a lot and never be dog walked. However… I will not take our 4th guys against states like Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania. We just don’t have the depth that they do. Our lack of depth has alot to due with having a smaller population. We are not behind! 
 

A kid is likely to get just as much recognition from college coaches for winning a tournament like Brecksville, Grappler Gold, or this years Crown Point tournament. College coaches want to see the best kids wrestle the best kids. At those tournaments you most likely will have to beat a nationally ranked kid to win it. 
 

With all of that said… to answer the question. It is a great accomplishment to win State here. It’s an unique and cool format. I wouldn’t change a single thing. But… it’s not the end all be all for our kids. Our state tournament is what it is. No need for a curve. Champs are champs forever. But…. If you want to show how good you actually are and how you actually stack up???? Go get some! 

Edited by Mattyb
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The middle and bottom are rotting out of the Indiana wrestling scene and the top is shooting to the moon. If you like watching Big Ten Network and hearing a ton of names you recognize, we are doing great. If you want a sustainable wrestling culture in our state, not so much. No one has to say the word, but we don’t have to pretend proper wrestlebacks and seedings are the only things Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania have. 

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1 hour ago, Galagore said:

The middle and bottom are rotting out of the Indiana wrestling scene and the top is shooting to the moon. If you like watching Big Ten Network and hearing a ton of names you recognize, we are doing great. If you want a sustainable wrestling culture in our state, not so much. No one has to say the word, but we don’t have to pretend proper wrestlebacks and seedings are the only things Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania have. 

Some areas may be on the decline while others (which have organizations that form multiple teams that travel) are on the come up. That’s why it is super exciting to see guys like @aoberlin doing what he’s doing where there is a need. The days of the seasonal wrestler coming in and winning a state title are over. This off season, I saw many kids from small schools jumping on teams and putting in work. Those kids refuse to be left behind and “rot” (not my word). Families that choose to live in Gods county with land have to take the good with the bad. They may have long drives, but can still be elite and train with the elite. The middle and bottom are staying the same. The cream is just rising to new levels by sacrificing, putting in time, and putting in money.
 

A seasonal kid that used to give a elite kid a good match is now getting pinned or teched. That’s just the reflection of hard work and sacrifice. Some people will say that is a perfect example of why the seasonal kid will quit or not wrestle. That’s when we as coaches and parents need to put everything in prospective. Let them know that they will get what they put in (same as anything in life). If you just want to be a varsity athlete, have fun with your brothers during season, and go as far as you can… that’s fine. They will still get a ton out of our sport. It’s fun!!!! On the other hand, if a kid wants more… stop holding them back… get with a travel or academy coach that can help then get to the next level and compete with the top kids. No matter how good a coach is, they can only do and provide so much locally. No matter where they live. 
 

Back to the question before a full blown class wrestling debate starts. Our tournament is quirky and is in fact looked at differently from people looking in. I just had to explain it to a handful of college wrestlers two days ago. They just laughed and said “that’s weird”. No matter if we have 1 or 7 champs, our state tournament is cool but it’s not the end all be all. 

Edited by Mattyb
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Very well said @Mattyb.  It’s just the truth. Seasonal wrestling only is pretty much finished. Unless you are freak athlete and probably in a heavier weight class. The wrestlers that we had over the summer in our Hammers club went 33-2 this weekend. That’s directly from months of putting in work in the off-season. With that said you are also right on how wrestling now reflects life even more. Good things come to those that are willing to put in the work and embrace the long grind.  Honestly The Fort is really here to help and the exciting part is the buy in from all the local coaches. That to me is the most important part.

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No doubt everything in the last two posts is accurate. Individual wrestlers are not rotting. Wrestling as a whole is rotting from the middle down. No way am I saying the magic word fixes everything. History shows that when I say the magic word, others point to wrestlebacks and proper seeding beyond sectional as issues as well, so the opposite approach seemed appropriate. My main concern as a wrestling dad, coach, and fan is the overall health of the sport in our state. Having nationally competitive top flight athletes is wonderful, but hopefully people don’t look at that as the only indicator. If neither of my sons and none of my teams ever wins another state title, but the sport grows and we can all enjoy it together into their respective adulthoods, then that’s a trade I will gladly make. 

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Over the past 10 years forfeits at the sectional level have effectively doubled(from 617 in 2011 to 1114 in 2021). We have also had a significant increase in All-Americans at the NCAA level.

 

One of those facts is really good, the other is extremely alarming.

 

Too many times we are looking at the top level and not the middle or bottom. We have effectively lost 42 full wrestling teams over the past 10 years. 

 

5vurt1.jpg

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I guess those 42 teams should have just gotten better and put in more work right? That’s usually the argument made on these boards. 
 

I agree with what Y2 and others have already said it is easy to look at top tier talent and think “things are great” but it then makes it easier to ignore other shortcomings. 

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One of the interesting things this thread hasn't touched on is the fact the last 20 years or so of youth programs have given participation trophies to more than just the 4 & 5 year olds...

 

At some point, kids realize that in wrestling that someone wins and someone loses - no team deflections of personal accountability by parents, etc. Much "kinder" for mom in her Honda Odyssey to croon over Jr's shiny participation trophy in team underwater basketweaving than dealing with the hurt of losing multiple matches in a day...

 

So, as society/pop culture rewards mediocrity and continues to diminish "winning", fewer young ones are going to participate in sports that demonstrably create winners & "losers".

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3 hours ago, SunDevils said:

I guess those 42 teams should have just gotten better and put in more work right? That’s usually the argument made on these boards. 
 

I agree with what Y2 and others have already said it is easy to look at top tier talent and think “things are great” but it then makes it easier to ignore other shortcomings. 

I will bite.
 

Participation in most contact sports is down. It is Part of the world that we are living in.

 

I think we are all doing our best to promote and grow the sport. I can’t think of one person that is trying to bring the sport down. Nobody I know that is involved with coaching our sport is doing it for the money. We just gotta keep doing what we are doing. Helping kids set goals and helping them get there. 

 

Heck.. the last program I was at forfeited HWT the whole year. The school was top 12 in enrollment in the state. Just couldn’t get a big man. They still took runners up in the team competition at individual state. 

 

With all of this said…. we already started a frosh / Soph state. If you really think classing will help…  it’s simple. Start a class state. Run it the same time as Frosh / soph state. If that is really what you think will save our sport, then let’s do it. Does the medal have to say IHSAA? The dual state champ award does not say IHSAA. Is that less important? If so… why?

 

if being named a state champ is the only way that we coaches and parents can keep numbers up and keep kids wrestling and we aren’t able to give them any other goals to keep them going… then let’s make a class championship. 
 

Btw… not looking to get involved in a debate. I don’t have any cool stats or data. You guys will just fire off stuff and I will have no good response. With that said… I concede to losing the class wrestling debate. Just want to fire off an idea to help. 

Edited by Mattyb
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2 hours ago, indypharmd said:

One of the interesting things this thread hasn't touched on is the fact the last 20 years or so of youth programs have given participation trophies to more than just the 4 & 5 year olds...

 

At some point, kids realize that in wrestling that someone wins and someone loses - no team deflections of personal accountability by parents, etc. Much "kinder" for mom in her Honda Odyssey to croon over Jr's shiny participation trophy in team underwater basketweaving than dealing with the hurt of losing multiple matches in a day...

 

So, as society/pop culture rewards mediocrity and continues to diminish "winning", fewer young ones are going to participate in sports that demonstrably create winners & "losers".

The first thing I tell wrestlers and parents that they need to do is truly accept that you will lose, probably for a quite a while a ton. After that reality is accepted then we can get to work on actually making you or your child a wrestler.

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2 hours ago, Mattyb said:

I will bite.
 

Participation in most contact sports is down. It is Part of the world that we are living in.

 

I think we are all doing our best to promote and grow the sport. I can’t think of one person that is trying to bring the sport down. Nobody I know that is involved with coaching our sport is doing it for the money. We just gotta keep doing what we are doing. Helping kids set goals and helping them get there. 

 

Without participation numbers there is no wrestling. We are forfeiting 600 spots more than 10 years ago, that is flat out alarming. That means 600 kids can walk into a wrestling room and be a starter without being challenged. 

 

The city schools in South Bend, Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, and Evansville are on life support right now. 

 

The more kids we have on the mat the better we are. We need better participation or this sport will continue to be more and more of a niche sport. People like you only care about what is in front of you and your kids, you could care less if Brownsburg or Avon field 3 kids each after 2025. You are exactly what that meme I posted is about.

 

We are struggling in this state and you are here saying we are having the best years ever, yet we have the lowest participation ever. You're right, it's much easier to win a state title when you don't have 14% of the wrestlers participating in the state series. 

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6 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Without participation numbers there is no wrestling. We are forfeiting 600 spots more than 10 years ago, that is flat out alarming. That means 600 kids can walk into a wrestling room and be a starter without being challenged. 

 

The city schools in South Bend, Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, and Evansville are on life support right now. 

 

The more kids we have on the mat the better we are. We need better participation or this sport will continue to be more and more of a niche sport. People like you only care about what is in front of you and your kids, you could care less if Brownsburg or Avon field 3 kids each after 2025. You are exactly what that meme I posted is about.

 

We are struggling in this state and you are here saying we are having the best years ever, yet we have the lowest participation ever. You're right, it's much easier to win a state title when you don't have 14% of the wrestlers participating in the state series. 

Joe,

 

I never said I was against class wrestling. I even suggested a way to have a class wrestling championship if the IHSAA doesn’t change. Just because I live in a heavily populated area and have been hired to coach at two area middle schools in that area makes me someone that doesn’t care and a meme? I work nonstop to get kids out and to stay in our room. We have really good wrestlers in our room. With that said, during the majority of my practices I work with our newest guys to catch them up so that they can develop and contribute. I’ve been around some of the best kids in Indiana for the last two decades. I’ve been a team leader and coached at countless national events. I even served my time on the ISWA board working to create events and trips for our younger wrestlers. But.. I choose to be a middle school assistant coach because that’s where our program needs the most help. That’s how we develop depth and keep numbers up. If a kid misses practice i ask everyone where they are and will text them (regardless of skill level). I would like to think that I would do the same if I lived in any community, but my job and Mrs. Mattyb say that they want me on the Westside of Indy.
 

At least I’m suggesting a solution and not just spewing out numbers and saying the sky is falling. I even shared the fact that one of the top teams in the state could not fill a line up. That suggest a problem. 
 

As far as the current state of Indiana wrestling… I am a glass half full person. That is typically the way I try to look at everything in life. Is a change needed? Maybe. At least I’m trying to suggest something.
 

Many people believe that class wrestling will help fix the participation issues. Welp… it’s not happening anytime soon. What else you got? We don’t need stats and numbers. We need solutions. 

 

Maybe we should change the format at the IHPO. It is currently the best off season tournament here in Indiana. With that said.. It appeals to the best of the best (the girl in the red dress). Maybe you can start a varsity division for the next tier of kids (the girl in the blue dress).
 

Btw.. according to one very prominent poster, city schools in Fort Wayne are better then ever. 

Lastly… I lost the class wrestling debate. Again, I have no data or facts. You win. No need to attack MattyB and call him the problem (that just hurts). And… our state tournament is just weird. 

 

Edited by Mattyb
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On 11/28/2021 at 7:39 AM, Mattyb said:

I spend a lot of time in Ohio. Over the last couple decades, I have been to some of the best elementary, middle school, high school and collage events over there. I actually just got back from there yesterday. I have seen our best Indiana kids beat some of the best Ohio kids. I know our top kids are just as good as their top kids. I have spent time in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Illinois too. I see it the same there too. My family also had the privilege of going through college recruiting process and have had the opportunity to pick the minds of some greatest to ever wrestle in college and internationally. Our state tournament and champs are held in high regard for what they go through to become a state champ. With that said… people see that our system as funky and know that the podium does not represent the best 8 kids. And with our travel restrictions, Indiana kids MUST go to good off season stuff and beat other top guys to get their full due. Personally I know my son only won one title, but during the off season he went out every other weekend and beat state champs from all over. This is where he got recognized, got nationally ranked, and earned some really good college offers. 
 

I will take our top guys against any other top guys from any other state. We will not win them all but will win a lot and never be dog walked. However… I will not take our 4th guys against states like Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania. We just don’t have the depth that they do. Our lack of depth has alot to due with having a smaller population. We are not behind! 
 

A kid is likely to get just as much recognition from college coaches for winning a tournament like Brecksville, Grappler Gold, or this years Crown Point tournament. College coaches want to see the best kids wrestle the best kids. At those tournaments you most likely will have to beat a nationally ranked kid to win it. 
 

With all of that said… to answer the question. It is a great accomplishment to win State here. It’s an unique and cool format. I wouldn’t change a single thing. But… it’s not the end all be all for our kids. Our state tournament is what it is. No need for a curve. Champs are champs forever. But…. If you want to show how good you actually are and how you actually stack up???? Go get some! 

Well said!!!  I couldn't agree more!!  Let's be proud of what we have, but understand you need to wrestle the national competition.

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It's just hard to read/hear how great the status of Indiana wrestling is when at the SB Clay invitational this year, all of the coaches were excited that there would be 5-8 matches each round. And let me tell you, those coaches were all about growing the sport and getting matches. Everyone was willing to bump, move, and do whatever else they needed to to forego maximum dual meet success in favor of getting wrestlers mat time.

 

You are right, class wrestling is no more a magic bullet than wrestlebacks. Like I said, when you're sitting where some of us are, it's just hard to hear/read about the fantastic state of Indiana high school wrestling, that's all. Believe me, we're pulling as much of the chain as we can. And we appreciate how much of the chain is being pulled by the top end. We just want to make sure that if the sky is falling, no one misses it because their head is in the sand.

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4 hours ago, Mattyb said:

Joe,

 

I never said I was against class wrestling. I even suggested a way to have a class wrestling championship if the IHSAA doesn’t change. Just because I live in a heavily populated area and have been hired to coach at two area middle schools in that area makes me someone that doesn’t care and a meme? I work nonstop to get kids out and to stay in our room. We have really good wrestlers in our room. With that said, during the majority of my practices I work with our newest guys to catch them up so that they can develop and contribute. I’ve been around some of the best kids in Indiana for the last two decades. I’ve been a team leader and coached at countless national events. I even served my time on the ISWA board working to create events and trips for our younger wrestlers. But.. I choose to be a middle school assistant coach because that’s where our program needs the most help. That’s how we develop depth and keep numbers up. If a kid misses practice i ask everyone where they are and will text them (regardless of skill level). I would like to think that I would do the same if I lived in any community, but my job and Mrs. Mattyb say that they want me on the Westside of Indy.
 

At least I’m suggesting a solution and not just spewing out numbers and saying the sky is falling. I even shared the fact that one of the top teams in the state could not fill a line up. That suggest a problem. 
 

As far as the current state of Indiana wrestling… I am a glass half full person. That is typically the way I try to look at everything in life. Is a change needed? Maybe. At least I’m trying to suggest something.
 

Many people believe that class wrestling will help fix the participation issues. Welp… it’s not happening anytime soon. What else you got? We don’t need stats and numbers. We need solutions. 

 

Maybe we should change the format at the IHPO. It is currently the best off season tournament here in Indiana. With that said.. It appeals to the best of the best (the girl in the red dress). Maybe you can start a varsity division for the next tier of kids (the girl in the blue dress).
 

Btw.. according to one very prominent poster, city schools in Fort Wayne are better then ever. 

Lastly… I lost the class wrestling debate. Again, I have no data or facts. You win. No need to attack MattyB and call him the problem (that just hurts). And… our state tournament is just weird. 

 

I never once mentioned class wrestling in my post. As stated the schools within our bigger cities are struggling mightily right now. Those are not ones that would at all benefit from class wrestling. At this point class wrestling is like trying to stop a fire hydrant with a bandaid. The sky isn't falling yet, but we are at a critical time within the sport in this state. Teams are averaging close to 4 forfeits each. That means it is not uncommon and almost the norm to see dual meets with only 7 contested matches. That scares me, especially when only 10 years ago it was at 2 forfeits per team. 

 

This is something that needs to be addressed at a higher level. Education of coaches, working with getting more teachers as coaches, working with coaches on promotion, etc. The biggest issue within the sport is retention of athletes. We are great at getting kids to come out, but are horrible at keeping them around. There needs to be a concerted effort from the coaches association to work with coaches on sustaining their programs and retaining athletes from year to year.

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13 hours ago, Mattyb said:

I will bite.
 

Participation in most contact sports is down. It is Part of the world that we are living in.

 

I think we are all doing our best to promote and grow the sport. I can’t think of one person that is trying to bring the sport down. Nobody I know that is involved with coaching our sport is doing it for the money. We just gotta keep doing what we are doing. Helping kids set goals and helping them get there. 

 

Heck.. the last program I was at forfeited HWT the whole year. The school was top 12 in enrollment in the state. Just couldn’t get a big man. They still took runners up in the team competition at individual state. 

 

With all of this said…. we already started a frosh / Soph state. If you really think classing will help…  it’s simple. Start a class state. Run it the same time as Frosh / soph state. If that is really what you think will save our sport, then let’s do it. Does the medal have to say IHSAA? The dual state champ award does not say IHSAA. Is that less important? If so… why?

 

if being named a state champ is the only way that we coaches and parents can keep numbers up and keep kids wrestling and we aren’t able to give them any other goals to keep them going… then let’s make a class championship. 
 

Btw… not looking to get involved in a debate. I don’t have any cool stats or data. You guys will just fire off stuff and I will have no good response. With that said… I concede to losing the class wrestling debate. Just want to fire off an idea to help. 

I am not interested in a class wrestling debate nor did I mention it.  Whether or not I believe classing would help or not is irrelevant. There are other issues that seem more fixable than revamping a entire system at this point and time. 

 

For example, 1) travel restrictions - allow our athletes to compete at major national tournaments; 2) coaching - unless everyone wants to pretend all coaches are created equal; 3) open districts - if a senior at Brownsburg or Perry can't make varsity why not let them go to another smaller school unprohibited which would help the other team; 4) cost - off season tournaments and club wrestling can get expensive some families can simply not afford it - develop a scholarship program to help subsidize the cost; 5) scholarship opportunities - I work in higher education at major institutions and the scholarship dollars for wrestling are not there compared to the obvious - football and basketball.

 

Educating athletes on value of GPA, how to apply for merit based scholarships, how to choose a relevant major, and optimizing exposure is vital. However, it is just assumed the best way to increase exposure is national tournaments. 

 

I agree athletic participation is down, especially in contact sports. And wrestling above all else is the most difficult on an athlete mentally and physically. But there are solutions that don't involve the "c word". 

Edited by SunDevils
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1 minute ago, SunDevils said:

I am not interested in a class wrestling debate nor did I mention it.  Whether or not I believe classing would help or not is irrelevant. There are other issues that seem more fixable than revamping a entire system at this point and time. 

 

For example, 1) travel restrictions - allow our athletes to compete at major national tournaments; 2) coaching - unless everyone wants to pretend all coaches are created equal; 3) open districts - if a senior at Brownsburg or Perry can't make varsity why not let them go to another smaller school unprohibited which would help the other team; 4) cost - off season tournaments and club wrestling can get expensive some families can simply not afford it - develop a scholarship program to help subsidize the cost; 5) scholarship opportunities - I work in higher education at major institutions and the scholarship dollars for wrestling are not there compared to the obvious - football and basketball. Educating athletes on value GPA, how to apply for merit based scholarships, how to choose a relevant major, and optimizing exposure is vital but few truly no how to do it outside of national tournaments. 

 

I agree athletic participation is down, especially in contact sports. And wrestling above all else is the most difficult on an athlete mentally and physically. 

All great points that are being brought up time and time again on this board. But… just like the stats and data that keeps being repeated year in and year out… What’s a plan or suggestion to fix it??? 20 people can tell me that my roof is leaking. But… until I get off my ass and fix it or hire an expert, I’m going to get dripped on. Your points and ideas are great. What are you and everyone else going to do to implement it??? I’m in… just tell me what I need to do to help. I’m doing what i can in my community. Not a single practice goes by that we don’t mention grades. If we don’t come up with viable suggestions or solutions, it’s all just chat. 

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2 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

All great points that are being brought up time and time again on this board. But… just like the stats and data that keeps being repeated year in and year out… What’s a plan or suggestion to fix it??? 20 people can tell me that my roof is leaking. But… until I get off my ass and fix it or hire an expert, I’m going to get dripped on. Your points and ideas are great. What are you and everyone else going to do to implement it??? I’m in… just tell me what I need to do to help. I’m doing what i can in my community. Not a single practice goes by that we don’t mention grades. If we don’t come up with viable suggestions or solutions, it’s all just chat. 

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless the IHSAA like the NCAA is forced to relinquish some of its power then nothing will change. Since that would solve two of the major issues - travel and transfer. 

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Let's not forget we have a pandemic going on and this is the biggest contact sport there is so that can affect numbers for sure. Personally I thought I would make the nicest facility I could and open the doors and wrestlers would just flood in. (Not the first or last time I will be wrong) That hasn't been the case no matter what our social media shows. It has been an absolute grind since we opened in July. I have broken down more than once asking "what did I do"? I have been the only person in the place just hoping someone would show up for an open facility or a meet the coach.  We located The Fort in a central location that is near I69 that would technically be in North Side's school district. For anyone that is from the area knows the "08" and the personalities that come with it. My best friend and my wife are both "08"ers. To me it is about charisma, relationships, and changing the culture of the sport. Let's be honest society is not going the direction of wrestling as far as what is being taught as acceptable. We want to focus on the word "fun" all the time in all sports. I have told my coaching staff to quit using the word "fun" with wrestling. I can't count how many times I have had kids quit wrestling because it is no longer "fun".  If you want fun go "play" golf. This sport is an absolute grind and a heart breaker. But..... it is the most rewarding and life building sport there is. That is what needs to be presented from the start. Those are the conversations we have to have with parents and wrestlers. Truly get to why we personally love the sport and why they should also. That was my goal for Meet the Coach. Then..... make it cool. Kids want to do things that are cool and they can be proud of. Also don't forget that moms are the ones that do the scheduling and will dictate if their child is going into a safe environment. So cater to the moms and make everything you do professional, transparent, drama free, clean, and as safe as possible. Then on top of that be consistent with your communication and schedules. Don't stray from those because they matter. Everyone has a schedule and we need to respect that. I had multiple times I didn't cancel something even though I knew no one would be there because consistency matters. In the end though, from a facility stand point, time and funds are the tough ones.  Having a place outside a school system with showers and adequate mat space is flat out expensive and  a huge risk. Hence why club sports aren't free. With that said I have been giving away a ton of stuff while trying to get this thing off the ground, although one thing I learned a long time ago, if you give something for free the value on it is totally lost to kids and parents.  You have to find that goldy locks price.  I honestly don't know if this venture I am doing will work but man I love this sport and what it has done for me. I also love seeing what it does for individuals we just need to make sure they know it is honestly about the journey and not the destination otherwise they can leave the sport salty and heartbroken.  If they understand that at a young age they will be light years away from where I was.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

Let's not forget we have a pandemic going on and this biggest contact sport there is so that can affect numbers for sure. Personally I thought I would make the nicest facility I could and open the doors and wrestlers would just flood in. (Not the first or last time I will be wrong) That hasn't been the case no matter what our social media shows. It has been an absolute grind since we opened in July. I have broken down more than once asking "what did I do"? I have been the only person in the place just hoping someone would show up for an open facility or a meet the coach.  We located The Fort in a central location that is near I69 that would technically be in North Side's school district. For anyone that is from the area knows the "08" and the personalities that come with it. My best friend and my wife are both "08"ers. To me it is about charisma, relationships, and changing the culture of the sport. Let's be honest society is not going the direction of wrestling as far as what is being taught as acceptable. We want to focus on the word "fun" all the time in all sports. I have told my coaching staff to quit using the word "fun" with wrestling. I can't count how many times I have had kids quit wrestling because it is no longer "fun".  If you want fun go "play" golf. This sport is an absolute grind and a heart breaker. But..... it is the most rewarding and life building sport there is. That is what needs to be presented from the start. Those are the conversations we have to have with parents and wrestlers. Truly get to why we personally love the sport and why they should also. That was my goal for Meet the Coach. Then..... make it cool. Kids want to do things that are cool and they can be proud of. Also don't forget that moms are the ones that do the scheduling and will dictate if their child is going into a safe environment. So cater to the moms and make everything you do professional, transparent, drama free, clean, and as safe as possible. Then on top of that be consistent with your communication and schedules. Don't stray from those because they matter. Everyone has a schedule and we need to respect that. I had multiple times I didn't cancel something even though I knew no one would be there because consistency matters. In the end though, from a facility stand point, time and funds are the tough ones.  Having a place outside a school system with showers and adequate mat space is flat out expensive and  a huge risk. Hence why club sports aren't free. With that said I have giving away a ton of stuff while trying to get this thing off the ground. With that said the one thing I learned a long time ago, if you give something for free the value on it is totally lost to kids and parents.  You have to find that goldy locks price.  I honestly don't know if this venture I am doing will work but man I love this sport and what it has done for me. I also love seeing what it does for individuals we just need to make sure they know it is honestly about the journey and not the destination otherwise they can leave the sport salty and heartbroken.  If they understand that at a young age they will be light years away from where I was.

 

 

Coach you're doing awesome things up there. It has been cool to see the pictures and advancements you guys have made. Sign me up for a meet the coach right after high school season if you'll have me. - Brody Hardcastle

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