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Off Season Opinion Question


aoberlin

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What is everyone's opinion on how much off season it takes to compete in wrestling anymore at the High School level? My belief is that it has changed quite a bit in the last 20 years.

 

Different levels:

Be on the team/Be Varsity - (How many hours a week in the off season, how much time off, any off season competition)

Semi-State Wrestler -  (How many hours a week in the off season, how much time off, any off season competition)

State Placer -  (How many hours a week in the off season, how much time off, any off season competition)

 

For arguments sake lets say they do one week long camp in the summer.

 

We are talking the average wrestler in a program that at least has some wrestlers in his room that can help push them.

 

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Sports in general isn't like it was 20 years ago.  I think with more athletes specializing in one or even two sports, the amount of work needed has increased.  It's not enough to attend a week long summer camp, show up in November, and only have your teammates in the room as your only practice partners.  There are outliers that can do it, but not many.

 

I think that if you want to be a state placer, you need to put in the work year round.  Practicing at least 3x week, attending your HS open room, traveling to compete, practice at an academy/club throughout the week.

 

I don't think the "average" wrestler has that commitment.  They may make their HS varsity team, but I doubt they see any kind of placement.

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I think this is exceptionally true and there was a good conversation about this a few weeks ago. Like most things around here, it started as one topic, but quickly shifted to another and evolved as the thread carried on.  The long story short was that if you're going to compete at the highest levels now you need to have specialized and do a ton of off-season club training and tournaments. This makes it harder than ever to be a multi-sport athlete. 

 

Maybe you like to do cross country in the fall. You'll miss pre-season folkstyle tournaments. Maybe you like to track or baseball in the spring. You'll miss the freestyle season. Next thing you know, you're behind the competition and unranked because you were off doing other things. And heaven forbid you actually be a kid in the summer, have a summer job and maybe spend a few weeks on a lake somewhere.

 

I know several really good wrestlers who are now in their junior and senior years. State placers. Have had good showings in the national tournaments. A bunch of them are starting to ask whether it's all been worth it and whether they want to wrestle in college. Sure it can knock a few grand off the price of tuition, but except for a select few will wrestling ever "pay all the bills" in college, let alone after. 

 

I'm not suggesting that any of this is unique to our sport, by the way. It's the current reality of amateur sports. As coaches and parents we need to find ways to support our young athletes however they choose. We can't live out our own dreams through them. If they're in this for the long term and committed to being the best, we support them. If they're doing it now because it's fun and challenging, we need to support that too.

 

I don't want any kid to miss out on the benefits that wrestling offers in terms of self discipline, self confidence, ability to deal with challenges and loss, just because they weren't interested in putting in the insane amount of work required to reach the upper echelon. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, julia2009 said:

Sports in general isn't like it was 20 years ago.  I think with more athletes specializing in one or even two sports, the amount of work needed has increased.  It's not enough to attend a week long summer camp, show up in November, and only have your teammates in the room as your only practice partners.  There are outliers that can do it, but not many.

 

I think that if you want to be a state placer, you need to put in the work year round.  Practicing at least 3x week, attending your HS open room, traveling to compete, practice at an academy/club throughout the week.

 

I don't think the "average" wrestler has that commitment.  They may make their HS varsity team, but I doubt they see any kind of placement.

First of all I agree. I should have rephrased it to "average" athlete that wants to achieve one of the goals above. Just meaning they aren't some phenom that breaks the normal rules.

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To be the best you must “Do The Rounds”.   Period.  By the way that’s the name of my show premiering this fall on all streaming platforms.  By doing the rounds I mean put in the work.   Staying “in-house” probably only works for the top 1 percent.  Meaning programs.  Everyone else must seek out partners and competitions if you want a “Chestie” (medal).   Those that duck 🦆: will get stuck.  I see it every year.  Only heavyweights and 220’s who are elite football players may skip the preliminaries and still find success.  The rest have to go get money.   In my hood we say tap-in.  And to be frank: if you are from Fort Wayne and didn’t tap-in with me this off-season: good luck to you.

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duck hunt cowboys GIF by College GameDay
Wooooooooooooooooo…… BANG ! BANG ! BANG !  … Pistol been sayin to you’ins varmits for sum decades you’ins train 24/7/365 . The Legend John Smith told Pistol that like in 1986 at the World Team Trials whin Pistol was teach him that Sweep Single . Pistol told The G.O.A.T John Smith he should name that move Pistol Pete Sweep Single . He said he did but you’ins named it after him. It’s Pistol go to move ! Woooooooo….. BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
 

That’s you’ins wrestling food for thought of the Century righ thurr . Pistol sweep single is faster than these 357 connected to Pistols holisters . SPIT ! Say Sumin bout dat . 

 

Pistol Pete 

How bout Dem Boyz from Oklahoma State 

Woooooooooooooooooooooo !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! 

Edited by 3xStateChamp
John Smith The Greatest Wrestler of All Time !
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Such a loaded question with so many answers. I think we can all agree on one thing and that is if you dont put in the work on the offseason you will have a very tough season no matter what. Not only is mat time essential but conditioning and nutrition cant be ignored at all, 

 

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  • 1st question you mentioned was "be on varsity" --> depends where you go to school. At Brownsburg, there are kids who train all year, participate in off season stuff and may not ever wrestle varsity vs. attending a school that has difficulties filling a line up...

 

  • " be a SS wrestler" : better be hitting the circuit and wrestling all spring/summer and if your school goes through the Mooresville Regional and/or EVSS, it still isn't enough...
  • "state placer" : frickin hard in single class Indiana... bust your ass every week and it still may not 

 

College coaches know... they are well aware of who puts time in and who doesn't and where... 

 

...just my random thoughts on a Sunday afternoon from #thecounty

 

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6 hours ago, indypharmd said:
  • 1st question you mentioned was "be on varsity" --> depends where you go to school. At Brownsburg, there are kids who train all year, participate in off season stuff and may not ever wrestle varsity vs. attending a school that has difficulties filling a line up...

 

Agreed. Be on varsity was equal to just being on the team. Meaning the minimum to even think about being a part of the sport. Understanding different schools will definitely be tougher to get in the line up.

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Much like anything, there is no cookie cutter answer.

 

If a kid is banged up, less competition and even practice is good to get healthy. 

 

Some kids don't need a lot of competition, while others are fine getting better in the practice room.

 

Off-season competition for some can be a weekly thing if they truly love the sport and love competing. I've seen some that would drive every week to a different event whether it's local, regional, or a national level event and others that are better picking and choosing a handful of events.

 

As a coach/parent you need to see the signs that a kid needs time off to be a kid or just time away from the wrestling room. The biggest issue I see is that coaches/parents put so much stock into high school success that they burn them out mentally and physically. This leads to them not competing in college or having a very disappointing collegiate career. 

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As far as Semi-state qualifier, it depends on the sectional and regional you feed into. Not all sectionals and regionals are created equally there for a really good athlete with experience can make it to semi-state with out off season wrestling if they're in the right regional. Now those athletes are mostly multiple sport athletes and probably put in the work in the weight room, but i've seen a lot of semi-state qualifiers that don't wrestle in the off season. I've also seen wrestlers wrestle all year round and not make semi-state because of the regional they're on as well as team. Making varsity it depends on the team some teams you make varsity just for being on the team while others you might have to beat out multiple teammates. I would say its rare to make state without wrestling in the off season. To win state I would say its a must with a few exceptions.

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44 minutes ago, aoberlin said:

Thank you all that gave an answer and I want you to know besides Pistol Pete your answers were lame. They were just a bunch of “well it depends”. I had higher expectations of this group. 

I was waiting for a class wrestling debate!!!

 

"Well... its harder to train at small schools...... blah blah blah......"

 

Actual answer... These kids need to practice or lift 5 to 6 days a week year round (unless sick, injured or on vacation). Its 2 hours of exercise a day. Kids may not want to exercise everyday, but who cares.

 

Hell.. I don't want to work everyday. But, I have never worked a day (to make money) and say "Well.. that sucked... I hate making money and providing for my family." After a day of work, I'm typically happy and feel accomplished.

 

Same with kids.  When my kids say they don't "want" to practice or workout... I say.. "I dont care, your going!" And... after every practice, I ask "how did it go?" 99.9 percent of the time, they say... "good.. Im glad I went." Just like us adults on payday... they feel accomplished. With that said... remind the kids (after each practice) how it feels to get through something tough. Tell them to go to school the next day, look at everyone, and realize that they did something that no other kid in that class was willing or could do.

 

Bottom line... burn out is a manufactured issue. Manufactured by athletes that don't want to have that "I accomplished something" feeling  and parents that allow them to not feel it. Do not dwell on the actual practice. Dwell on the feeling that they get after making through a tough workout or accomplishing a goal (btw.. they have to have a goal sheet). That's what we need to bottle and sell. That is what gets kids to the next level, and ultimately college dollars. 

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5 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

I was waiting for a class wrestling debate!!!

 

"Well... its harder to train at small schools...... blah blah blah......"

 

Actual answer... These kids need to practice or lift 5 to 6 days a week year round (unless sick, injured or on vacation). Its 2 hours of exercise a day. Kids may not want to exercise everyday, but who cares.

 

Hell.. I don't want to work everyday. But, I have never worked a day (to make money) and say "Well.. that sucked... I hate making money and providing for my family." After a day of work, I'm typically happy and feel accomplished.

 

Same with kids.  When my kids say they don't "want" to practice or workout... I say.. "I dont care, your going!" And... after every practice, I ask "how did it go?" 99.9 percent of the time, they say... "good.. Im glad I went." Just like us adults on payday... they feel accomplished. With that said... remind the kids (after each practice) how it feels to get through something tough. Tell them to go to school the next day, look at everyone, and realize that they did something that no other kid in that class was willing or could do.

 

Bottom line... burn out is a manufactured issue. Manufactured by athletes that don't want to have that "I accomplished something" feeling  and parents that allow them to not feel it. Do not dwell on the actual practice. Dwell on the feeling that they get after making through a tough workout or accomplishing a goal (btw.. they have to have a goal sheet). That's what we need to bottle and sell. That is what gets kids to the next level, and ultimately college dollars. 

Well done Mattyb!

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6 minutes ago, ReformedPoster said:

All I know is that if you aren't driving to Ft. Wayne to train with the General...well, good luck.🤪

The General doesn’t train anyone.  I said tap-in.  If you are FROM Fort Wayne.  I’m pretty old and I know everyone so I may be able to point you in the right direction.  But then again what do I know?

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9 hours ago, Mattyb said:

I was waiting for a class wrestling debate!!!

 

"Well... its harder to train at small schools...... blah blah blah......"

 

Actual answer... These kids need to practice or lift 5 to 6 days a week year round (unless sick, injured or on vacation). Its 2 hours of exercise a day. Kids may not want to exercise everyday, but who cares.

 

Hell.. I don't want to work everyday. But, I have never worked a day (to make money) and say "Well.. that sucked... I hate making money and providing for my family." After a day of work, I'm typically happy and feel accomplished.

 

Same with kids.  When my kids say they don't "want" to practice or workout... I say.. "I dont care, your going!" And... after every practice, I ask "how did it go?" 99.9 percent of the time, they say... "good.. Im glad I went." Just like us adults on payday... they feel accomplished. With that said... remind the kids (after each practice) how it feels to get through something tough. Tell them to go to school the next day, look at everyone, and realize that they did something that no other kid in that class was willing or could do.

 

Bottom line... burn out is a manufactured issue. Manufactured by athletes that don't want to have that "I accomplished something" feeling  and parents that allow them to not feel it. Do not dwell on the actual practice. Dwell on the feeling that they get after making through a tough workout or accomplishing a goal (btw.. they have to have a goal sheet). That's what we need to bottle and sell. That is what gets kids to the next level, and ultimately college dollars. 

Woooooooo….. BANG ! BANG ! BANG! 
 

@Mattyb Pistol already told you’ins varmint ass’s that you’ins train 24/7/ Tree hungred sixty 5 days a year. Pistol says stop beatin round da bush with dis heer nonsense of Blah… Blah… to de Blah garbage of 1980’s . Only thing Pistol remembers of dem 1980’s is John Smith stealin Pistol famous moves Pistol Pete Sweep Single . Errrrone knows Pistol teach that Legend John Smith his secret special fastest move EVER ! Wooooooooo…… BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! Getting Pistol work up’d bout to put 16 slugs in dat Fak Wyoming mascot not named Pistol Pete ! 

 

Woooooooo….. BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! 

 

How bout dem Cowboys of Oklahoma State ! 

Don’t tell know ones that Pistol of took down National Champ A.J. Ferrari today. Hell yes, Pistol might of used da butt of Gun to stun that varmint . I’ins Pistol got da job done ! Da hole room 2………………………………………………………………….. ! Pistol walkin round dat campus like a Champ today ! 
 

WOOOOOOOOO…… BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! Spit …… say sumin bout dat ! 
 

Pistol Pete Game Day Orange GIF by Oklahoma State University

Edited by 3xStateChamp
Pistol took down National Champ A.J. Ferrari …. 2’s…….
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23 hours ago, Mattyb said:

I was waiting for a class wrestling debate!!!

 

"Well... its harder to train at small schools...... blah blah blah......"

 

Actual answer... These kids need to practice or lift 5 to 6 days a week year round (unless sick, injured or on vacation). Its 2 hours of exercise a day. Kids may not want to exercise everyday, but who cares.

 

Hell.. I don't want to work everyday. But, I have never worked a day (to make money) and say "Well.. that sucked... I hate making money and providing for my family." After a day of work, I'm typically happy and feel accomplished.

 

Same with kids.  When my kids say they don't "want" to practice or workout... I say.. "I dont care, your going!" And... after every practice, I ask "how did it go?" 99.9 percent of the time, they say... "good.. Im glad I went." Just like us adults on payday... they feel accomplished. With that said... remind the kids (after each practice) how it feels to get through something tough. Tell them to go to school the next day, look at everyone, and realize that they did something that no other kid in that class was willing or could do.

 

Bottom line... burn out is a manufactured issue. Manufactured by athletes that don't want to have that "I accomplished something" feeling  and parents that allow them to not feel it. Do not dwell on the actual practice. Dwell on the feeling that they get after making through a tough workout or accomplishing a goal (btw.. they have to have a goal sheet). That's what we need to bottle and sell. That is what gets kids to the next level, and ultimately college dollars. 

Burn out being manufactured doesn't seem like the right terminology to me. Bobby Douglas said in an interview that Cael was burnt-out before winning his Olympic gold medal. From the what Cael has done he does not seem like the type to manufacture that type of mindset. Same goes for David Taylor who has mentioned when he was in high school he struggled to find motivation because of how burnt-out he was from the sport. Two of the most well known wrestlers in the sport have experienced the feeling of burn out. I'd like to think they didn't manufacture it but what do I know.  Just my two cents.

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6 hours ago, MOTOWNCOACH said:

Burn out being manufactured doesn't seem like the right terminology to me. Bobby Douglas said in an interview that Cael was burnt-out before winning his Olympic gold medal. From the what Cael has done he does not seem like the type to manufacture that type of mindset. Same goes for David Taylor who has mentioned when he was in high school he struggled to find motivation because of how burnt-out he was from the sport. Two of the most well known wrestlers in the sport have experienced the feeling of burn out. I'd like to think they didn't manufacture it but what do I know.  Just my two cents.

Maybe they needed a change or a vacation.    With that said… they kept wrestling and it turned out pretty good for them both. What ever they did to get through their bad feelings worked. Do you know what got them right mentally and prevented them from going off the deep end or quitting? I think we would all be interested in that. 
 

Btw… the topic is high school wrestling. Comparing high school kids to some of the greatest that train more and harder then most anyone on the planet is like comparing apples and oranges. We are discussing high school aged kids working out 5 to 6 days a week for a couple hours. 
 

I stand behind my post and assessment of burn out.

 

With that said… there are some crazies out there that have there kids going over 25 hours a week. Those kids may hate the workouts or be damaged goods. I wouldn’t call that burnout…. I would call that just plain stupid. 
 

But… as kids get older they need to think about this…. The NCAA allows programs to practice 20 hours a week. Any good program uses all 20 hours. If a kid wants to wrestle in the NCAA, they better prepare for that workload. 

Edited by Mattyb
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@Mattyb I thought I mentioned that DT was in high school when he mentioned his feeling of being burnt out if not that’s on me. I’m pretty sure DT said his big thing was his weight cut but that’s sort of a simple fix. As for what got them back on track I can get you an answer at a later date. My overall point is that burn out can happen to anyone no matter what level they’re on but like I said earlier what do I know 🤷🏽‍♂️

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8 hours ago, MOTOWNCOACH said:

@Mattyb I thought I mentioned that DT was in high school when he mentioned his feeling of being burnt out if not that’s on me. I’m pretty sure DT said his big thing was his weight cut but that’s sort of a simple fix. As for what got them back on track I can get you an answer at a later date. My overall point is that burn out can happen to anyone no matter what level they’re on but like I said earlier what do I know 🤷🏽‍♂️

I have the answer as to why Cael felt burn out and it was because of the pressure to be perfect and it being more like a job than a sport, but what got him going again was competing in the trials to represent the United States. You can watch his gold medal match from 2004 on youtube. 

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3 hours ago, MOTOWNCOACH said:

I have the answer as to why Cael felt burn out and it was because of the pressure to be perfect and it being more like a job than a sport, but what got him going again was competing in the trials to represent the United States. You can watch his gold medal match from 2004 on youtube. 

Great points that you bring up. These are perfect examples of issues as we as coaches and / or parents should pay attention to and make adjustments accordingly. I’m thinking communication is the key. I believe that we all do a better job of that. Definitely going to ask my guys to come to me with any of these feelings. Hopefully… if these or similar issues arise, we can adjust before it gets too bad. I really appreciate your insight. 
 

I used to coach a faith based youth football team. One a week we had a 30 min fellowship where we talked about faith and feelings. I know in most schools we would have the leave the faith part out… but… I think a fellowship talk for a team would be an awesome tool to prevent some of the adverse feelings that you have brought up. Make sure that everyone knows that they are not the only ones having these negative feelings and help guys work through adversity. 
 

Maybe Andy can do something like this at The Fort. I’m sure the kids would love it. 

Edited by Mattyb
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