Y2CJ41 Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 My comments are in red 9) WRESTLING COACHES PROPOSALS JD Minch, Gary Myers of Hamilton Heights, and Danny Struck of Jeffersonville, all representing the Indiana High School Wrestling Coaches Association (IHSWCA), spoke to the rules proposals listed below for consideration. Proposal 1: Add Girls Wrestling as an IHSAA sanctioned sport.Common sense Proposal 2: Reduce the wait time between competition from 45 minutes to 30 minutes. (the coaches association withdrew this proposal as this will be part of the NFHS rules change process). No need to have 45 minute wait, but needs to be done at NFHS level Proposal 3: Expansion of state tournament from 16 competitors per class to 20 competitors per class. They would need to have the pseudo wrestle-backs like they did about 8 years ago. Also this could make for some interesting matches at state if the #1 comes in cold and the 4/5 winner gets a match underneath them. Proposal 4: Allow tenths of a pound to be removed from a qualified weigh in. Good, we should not demand kids 15-18 years old have to manage their weight to the tenth of a pound. No decision was made on these proposals but will be considered and voted upon at the June 25, 2021 meeting. FCFIGHTER170, AJ and MUSKEEWRESTLER 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornetPride Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 for Proposal 4, is this saying that 113.9=113 for weigh in purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwoodjc89 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I believe it is for weight management tracking purposes only. HornetPride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julio Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Proposal #1 is a Title IX issue. Have to have equal number of boys and girls sports. Wrestling’s corresponding sport is gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 On 5/6/2021 at 10:03 AM, Y2CJ41 said: Proposal 3: Expansion of state tournament from 16 competitors per class to 20 competitors per class. They would need to have the pseudo wrestle-backs like they did about 8 years ago. Also this could make for some interesting matches at state if the #1 comes in cold and the 4/5 winner gets a match underneath them. If a 5th place from SS gets added and the 5s face the 4s in a state finals prelim for the right to see the 1s, those round of 16 matches will be spicier for the 1s for sure. A while back I researched all state finals underclassmen FOLLOWING season performances. The 5th placers at state (who are 3-1 against top competition that day), finish higher on average than the 4th placers (who are 2-2) the next season. In fact, they're more similar to the 3s. The same certainly holds true at semi-state. We would see the SS 5s beat the 4s at state significantly more than half the time and filter out the "lucky draw" 4th place state qualifiers that 1s face sometimes in the Round of 16. QuinnHarris and FCFIGHTER170 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornetPride Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, julio said: Proposal #1 is a Title IX issue. Have to have equal number of boys and girls sports. Wrestling’s corresponding sport is gymnastics. This is very easily solved by adding boys volleyball Edited May 12, 2021 by HornetPride Coach Moore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pug Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Title IX is not as simple as having the same amount of sports. It's about creating equal opportunities. Football throws this number off because of how many kids are on the team. No female sport has the equivalent of football. Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play; QuinnHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) I'm not familiar with IHSAA by-laws and practices for adding sports--don't like two thirds of members have to have a program for it to be a sport? (And isn't girls' participation somewhat lower than that mark still?) Or do they announce the provisional sponsorship of the sport when there's enough momentum and then see if enough programs are added for it to become permanent? Edited May 12, 2021 by maligned QuinnHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Are you saying we didn't have a request to add wrestlebacks to the state tournament series? We should have that every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 4 hours ago, maligned said: I'm not familiar with IHSAA by-laws and practices for adding sports--don't like two thirds of members have to have a program for it to be a sport? (And isn't girls' participation somewhat lower than that mark still?) Or do they announce the provisional sponsorship of the sport when there's enough momentum and then see if enough programs are added for it to become permanent? We had 93 teams represented at the girl's regionals this year. Here are the IHSAA by-laws pertaining to a championship series. 1-2 Recognized Sports The following sports are recognized and regulated: Boys – Baseball, Basketball, Cross Country, Football, Golf, Soccer, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Field, Wrestling; Girls – Basketball, Cross Country, Golf, Gymnastics, Soccer, Softball, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Field, Volleyball; Unified Sports© - Track and Field, Flag Football. 1-3 Championship Tournament Series A championship tournament series will be provided at such time as Fifty percent (50%) of the total, full Membership Schools are participating in that sport at the same time of the year and it is recommended by the Commissioner. NOTE: Applies only to those sports not listed as recognized and regulated in rule 1-2. 1-4 Annual Sport Qualification Review Sports which no longer qualify under the Twenty-five (25%) standard will be reviewed annually for purposes of determining future tournament and recognition status. QuinnHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCFIGHTER170 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I like these proposals, thanks to everybody involved for contributing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 as for #4 I believe as long as you're not dropping a weight class or below your minimum weight it should count as a qualifying weigh-in. ex if you enter the first weigh-in at 119.9 and your minimum weight is 112.5 you next weigh-in just needs to be over 113 to count.... you'll still have to wait until your original plan lets you get under 113 to go 113 but all your weigh-ins at 120 should count. i think we're doing more harm when trying to make kids gain a pound or 2 when they're naturally losing weight. Unfortunately the current system doesn't account for natural weight fluctuation. If some one is wrestling 182 and their weight goes from 180 to 176 to 179 to 175 they're going to have a hard time getting qualifying weigh-ins even though they aren't trying to drop to the next weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornetPride Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/12/2021 at 11:49 AM, Pug said: Title IX is not as simple as having the same amount of sports. It's about creating equal opportunities. Football throws this number off because of how many kids are on the team. No female sport has the equivalent of football. Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play; This isn't actually how it works at the high school level. Participation numbers don't matter, only that there are equal opportunities, meaning equal sports offered. In college, "opportunities" is interpreted and applied to scholarships, which is why football is a huge problem with their 83 full scholarships with no equivalent female sport. But in high school "Boy's Football Opportunities" is offset by "Girl's Volleyball Opportunities" So if we add girls wrestling, we could add boys volleyball, thus keeping opportunities equitable and Football would then be offset by gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 If we add girls wrestling, wouldn't that be offset by boys wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickfor6 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Galagore said: If we add girls wrestling, wouldn't that be offset by boys wrestling? No we would either need to get rid of a girls sport, or add another boys sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcjcjc Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, brickfor6 said: No we would either need to get rid of a girls sport, or add another boys sport. Looks like they are looking to add a sport (fingers crossed). Gymnastics was unanimously voted to be kept, so it seems this is the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, brickfor6 said: No we would either need to get rid of a girls sport, or add another boys sport. Makes sense Edited May 19, 2021 by Galagore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbulldog152 Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 If they were to add a boys sport would it have to be a winter sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Gymnastics is weird. This year there were 74 schools represented at Sectionals - many schools only had 1 or 2 girls. For example, Fishers entered 1 gymnast, but it isn't listed as a sport on the schools website and doesn't have an official coach or any apparatuses in the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, GrecoCoach said: For example, Fishers entered 1 gymnast, but it isn't listed as a sport on the schools website and doesn't have an official coach or any apparatuses in the building. This occurs occasionally in some individual sports, when a "club kid" doesn't end up having any access to the sport at their school. They get the school to sign off on them participating, get someone to agree to be their coach (sometimes its the parent), and find a location with equipment to practice. Unfortunately even if they recruit a few friends the sport will often come to an end at that school once the original kid(s) graduates which in turn often means the coach they pulled in moves on. Edited May 19, 2021 by MattM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brobst Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I saw in the minutes that essentially all 3 proposals were rejected. (Girls wrestling was told to go through an emerging sport process, the others failed 0-16). curious as to what feedback was given regarding the reasoning behind the rejections. Anyone who knows could respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Time Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I don't know any of the rationale, but the girls wrestling one sounds like an administrative "kick the can down the road" approach. Also enables a soft "no" without having to actually vote "no" which wouldn't look great politically. Not sure what the "emerging sport process" actually entails either as there isn't any documentation on the website. If anyone knows what that process involves, that'd be great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, Matt Time said: I don't know any of the rationale, but the girls wrestling one sounds like an administrative "kick the can down the road" approach. Also enables a soft "no" without having to actually vote "no" which wouldn't look great politically. Not sure what the "emerging sport process" actually entails either as there isn't any documentation on the website. If anyone knows what that process involves, that'd be great too. The emerging sport process was put into place last May, here is what it entails from the minutes https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/about ihsaa/minutes/2019-20/050420.Board.pdf?ver=2020-05-04-202916-320 1-3 Emerging Sports a. Emerging Sports In order for a sport to become an IHSAA Recognized Sport, a member school must become the sport’s mentor and must follow the Emerging Sports Process. b. Emerging Sports Process. Any member School may apply, no later than March 1, to the Directors for a sport to be recognized as an Emerging Sport, and provided such recognition is not an anathema to the purposes or goals of the IHSAA, the sport shall be approved by the Directors at its next annual meeting as an Emerging Sport. c. Recognition and Requirements. Upon recognition of a sport as an Emerging Sport, the sport will be listed as an Emerging Sport in the IHSAA General Eligibility Rules and any School sponsoring a program in such sport shall register its head coach with the IHSAA. The IHSAA will offer limited administrative services to Schools sponsoring a program in the Emerging Sport, such as free rule books, free rules meetings in the sport and free participation in the Catastrophic Medical program for the students participating in the Emerging Sport. Participation in the sport and all Contests in the sport are subject to all the IHSAA rules and policies, including the General Eligibility Rules. d. Current Emerging Sports. The following sports are currently Emerging Sports: None. One thing I have noticed through all of this is that Indiana has likely the strictest policy for adding a sport. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, however I know that we have some of the highest girl's participation that doesn't include Texas, California, Washington, etc. From talking with some people "in the know" the rumor that the IHSAA needs to add a boys sport is just that, a rumor. No where has it been communicated that a boys sport would be needed in order to sanction girls wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Coach Brobst said: I saw in the minutes that essentially all 3 proposals were rejected. (Girls wrestling was told to go through an emerging sport process, the others failed 0-16). curious as to what feedback was given regarding the reasoning behind the rejections. Anyone who knows could respond. Easy, they saw “wrestling” in the proposal and went insta-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 20 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said: The emerging sport process was put into place last May, here is what it entails from the minutes https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/about ihsaa/minutes/2019-20/050420.Board.pdf?ver=2020-05-04-202916-320 1-3 Emerging Sports a. Emerging Sports In order for a sport to become an IHSAA Recognized Sport, a member school must become the sport’s mentor and must follow the Emerging Sports Process. b. Emerging Sports Process. Any member School may apply, no later than March 1, to the Directors for a sport to be recognized as an Emerging Sport, and provided such recognition is not an anathema to the purposes or goals of the IHSAA, the sport shall be approved by the Directors at its next annual meeting as an Emerging Sport. c. Recognition and Requirements. Upon recognition of a sport as an Emerging Sport, the sport will be listed as an Emerging Sport in the IHSAA General Eligibility Rules and any School sponsoring a program in such sport shall register its head coach with the IHSAA. The IHSAA will offer limited administrative services to Schools sponsoring a program in the Emerging Sport, such as free rule books, free rules meetings in the sport and free participation in the Catastrophic Medical program for the students participating in the Emerging Sport. Participation in the sport and all Contests in the sport are subject to all the IHSAA rules and policies, including the General Eligibility Rules. d. Current Emerging Sports. The following sports are currently Emerging Sports: None. Looks like they took a page from the NCAA's emerging sport program. Girl's wrestling will most likely be the testing ground for the process which coincides with the NCAA right now. It also looks like a feasibility study to see if the sport will survive, which shouldn't be an issue with all the work that has already been done and it's growing popularity, especially in Indiana. I'd imagine they saw multiple potential sports on the horizon and wanted a more stringent way to regulate the addition as opposed to looking bad as previously mentioned by simply voting no. No one wants to be the bad guy and this is a way to put it on the stakeholders of each sport if it doesn't pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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