J'Den Cox not making weight at Olympic Trials

[Wrestling Scholar]

Biggest surprise of the tournament.   I read J'Den's coach Kevin Jackson (1992 Olympic champ)  got the wrong times for the weigh ins and that created a big problem.  Was this was a mistake on Jackson or if the tournament administrators screwed up.   As J'Den was saying there was some missed communication.    I kind of curious how that went down and if J'den was close to weight and if he had a little more time,  he would have been good.

 

Kind of  a shame as he's been wrestling well and is in his peak.   Not sure if he would have gotten Snyder but those are two juggernauts. This is under appeal.  Does USA Wrestling or whoever oversees the US wrestling team make a decision to have a wrestle off with Snyder?   This is the wrong time not to make weight,  but this leaves somebody with a tough decision. I think Cox normally would have some recourse, but it hurts having Snyder win the  weight class. Snyder,  a returning Olympic Champion is definitely a favorite at Tokyo, leaving Cox no room to argue as an upgrade.   If there was a less ranked wrestler win it,  you could make the argument that USA is better with Cox.   But you cant make that argument with Snyder winning.

 

I feel bad for Kevin Jackson.  Im sure he feels terrible about the situation.

 

 

 

[maligned]

1 hour ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

 I kind of curious how that went down and if J'den was close to weight and if he had a little more time,  he would have been good.

 

 

 

 

 

He thought weigh-ins were 8 to 9 and showed up at 8--which is actually when they ended. He was 0.4 over and had it off in just a few minutes apparently.

[Thor]

What I find very interesting, is that doesn’t KJ have other wrestlers that were there on time? By putting this blame on KJ, it feels like this is just trying to make an excuse for Jden. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

Thats messed up that Cox was so close.   Its sounds like the bell has been rung, and how do you unring the bell.    Lets say hypothetically J'Den could prove he got the wrong times from USA wrestling, could there be some recourse?     I know unlikely, but if his appeal worked,  could they do something like the 2012 Beat the Streets with the Shawn Bunch vs Coleman Scott match.  Maybe it was a 3 way tournament were Reese Humprey barely lost to Scott.      They had it in New York after the Olympic Qualifier because Bunch and Humprey were at an Olympic Qualifier and couldn't wrestle the Trials.

 

They could have a 2 out of 3 with Cox and Snyder and wrestle somewher cool on the streets.    Maybe Snyder only needs one win and Cox has to beat Snyder twice to make it more fair.  It would be a good PR for USA wrestling.  I think it would be cool.   Coincidentally,  Just like Shawn Bunch,  J'Den Cox is an African American wrestler from the Kansas City area.  

 

Also,  on another perspective.   Could have USA wrestling made an exception and gave Cox and extra half hour. I know it could look bad, but sometimes a in the moment compromise would have saved a lot of headaches.

[Y2CJ41]

Per the barcode scanning on his credential he showed up at 7:21am, checked weight at 7:24am and eventually made weight at 8:14am.

 

Even if he thought weigh-ins were later, he should have realized when he showed up that it was the official weigh-ins going on. It isn't hard to figure that out with guys eating and such. That is when he should have had an "oh crap" moment and busted his butt to get on weight.

[wrestlenewbie]

There is zero chance USAW allows any kind of wrestle off. First, there is no way Snyder would agree to a wrestle off without it first going to court. Second, they would never be able to enforce the weigh in rules again without having to constantly litigate it. They will absolutely not allow this precedence because the ongoing consequences would be impossible to manage and they would need a lot of money to pay for a lot of lawyers. They simply do not have Cornell's resources. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Per the barcode scanning on his credential he showed up at 7:21am, checked weight at 7:24am and eventually made weight at 8:14am.

 

Even if he thought weigh-ins were later, he should have realized when he showed up that it was the official weigh-ins going on. It isn't hard to figure that out with guys eating and such. That is when he should have had an "oh crap" moment and busted his butt to get on weight.

Thats pretty substantial evidence.  Always two sides to a story, but at any level, weigh in times are pretty important and most people double check and are aware.  Just doesnt add up.  Its very unlikely he gets some recourse out of this. One of the best things about wrestling is you control your destiny, it doesnt matter what everybody else thinks, you beat the guy, you go forward and it doesnt come down to a vote or decision of a coach.   A wrestle off with Snyder would go against that concept.

 

I suppose you could say were lucky for our qualifying process in wrestling when you compare  it to USA gymnastics.   Where if you make a complaint about getting molested by a Doctor on staff,  then leadership in some backroom decision uses that to stop you from making the team.

[maligned]

8 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Per the barcode scanning on his credential he showed up at 7:21am, checked weight at 7:24am and eventually made weight at 8:14am.

 

Even if he thought weigh-ins were later, he should have realized when he showed up that it was the official weigh-ins going on. It isn't hard to figure that out with guys eating and such. That is when he should have had an "oh crap" moment and busted his butt to get on weight.

Was he arriving at 7:21 knowing he was over, though, and thinking he had till 9 but suddenly had only till 8am and still had 0.4 left at that point? None of it adds up in his favor but context could at least mean he isnt outright lying about the circumstances 

[Wrestling Scholar]

I still think USA wrestling screwed up on this.    There obviously was some form of miscommunication.   I really think the smart thing to do would  have the tournament director make an arbitrary exception and give J'Den a few more minutes to weigh in.   Ive seen lots of times were weve had exceptions to weigh in times because a bus driver showed up late or a kid showed up a little late to a sacnticoned tournament.   I dont think anybody would have complained under the circumstances.   I bet Snyder was even disapointed he didn't get the chance to wrestle Cox.    IMO,  You look at it,  of all the guys on the team and look at it P4P perspective, I think Snyder and Cox are #1 and #2.   And I not sure which one is #1. 

 

The point is we should build and promote our sport.   J'den Cox arguaby is the hottest and maybe best wrestler in the USA,   we need this guy on the mat as he's an exciting wrestler and we wrestling really needs promotion and celebrate guys like this.  Lets build this sport and try to get more TV time and viewership.   We dont need to toss aside and embarass a great athlete that has dedicated his life to this sport.   Wrestling almost got thrown out of the olympics, we need to be careful that might right decisions and get good PR for our guys.   Sometimes you need to use judgement instead of just following the rules to the letter.   The ironic thing is its an advantage to weigh in earlier so he could more time to recoup.  Did J'Den Cox gain an advantage by doing this.   Thats why this is a silly ruling.

 

I think its time for Cox to go pro  and do some MMA.    He'd be exciting and hopefully make some money for all his had work.    If he can get past getting punched in the face,  I say forget the amateur stuff and go Pro.

 

[bbell]

I thought this was a very thorough breakdown of the situation from Chael Sonnen's perspective. Stinks all the way around for the love of the sport but plenty of opportunity to learn and grow!

 

 

[Thor]

All I have to say, is Russia would never allow this. Say what you want about them, but they get their best guys on the team, rules be damned. 

[Ahawkeye]

I think Thor feels strongly about his statement.

[Ch1StyleZ84]

[Thor]

21 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I think Thor feels strongly about his statement.

Idk what’s going on I’m broken. Every time I opened this tab it posted again. 

[Wrestling Scholar]

So how does Russia select their team?  

  This whole weight class setup was interesting in it self.  I suppose its some criteria,  but why did Snyder get the better seed over Cox and get placed straight to the finals?   I guess it was the prior Olympic Championship carries more weight than Cox winning the last World Championship and placing 3rd in previous Olympics.   Cox has done more lately than Snyder, I suppose there's Criteria that favors Snyder.
 

 

 

 

[MattM]

1 hour ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

So how does Russia select their team?  

  This whole weight class setup was interesting in it self.  I suppose its some criteria,  but why did Snyder get the better seed over Cox and get placed straight to the finals?   I guess it was the prior Olympic Championship carries more weight than Cox winning the last World Championship and placing 3rd in previous Olympics.   Cox has done more lately than Snyder, I suppose there's Criteria that favors Snyder.
 

 

 

 

The Russian Federation has final approval of their team.  While they heavily weigh the results of National Tournament they also look at the last year worth of competition and how the other wrestlers stack up against their prior years World Team member.  It’s give them a little wiggle room to occasionally pull an audible if they feel their is a better option out their than who showed up to win Nationals.

 

 

As for the U.S. World team trials neither Snyder or Cox were technically seeded.  Criteria that moves you to a higher part of the tournament system is based on placement at the prior years World Championship (since last years Covid issues voided last years it went by the by 2019 results).  Snyder medaling at that weight in the prior World Championship got a bye to the best of 3 finals.  Then all other wrestlers had to participate in the challenge tournament to face him.  The next criteria was wrestlers who placed at the prior years Worlds but moved a weight class.  Since Cox placed at Worlds but moved from an none existent weight class (worlds has 10 while Olympics only 6) he got placed in challenge tournament semis.  After that they seeded all the other wrestlers in the weight class.  

Edited April 9, 2021 by MattM

[SIACfan]

This is very disheartening. Cox has to be absolutely devastated. But...

 

Cox is 26 years old. He is not a HS or college student. Not sure I have a lot of sympathy for him not knowing the correct weighin time for something as important as the OTT's. I'm sure there was some miscommunication, but in today's world how/why would anyone let knowing the correct information come simply by word of mouth? Especially something as important as this. Did any other wrestler not know the correct weighin time?

 

But I do have one question - why is the official weighin time for the OTT's only 30 minutes? Seems pretty short for something this important.

 

For the record, I for one am very glad that the USA does not determine their team the way Russia does. How could any American say they think the government or governing body should be able to take something away from the individual who earned it & simply hand it to someone else? Just because subjectively they believe it is best.

 

 

 

[IU89]

13 hours ago, SIACfan said:

This is very disheartening. Cox has to be absolutely devastated. But...

 

Cox is 26 years old. He is not a HS or college student. Not sure I have a lot of sympathy for him not knowing the correct weighin time for something as important as the OTT's. I'm sure there was some miscommunication, but in today's world how/why would anyone let knowing the correct information come simply by word of mouth? Especially something as important as this. Did any other wrestler not know the correct weighin time?

 

But I do have one question - why is the official weighin time for the OTT's only 30 minutes? Seems pretty short for something this important.

 

For the record, I for one am very glad that the USA does not determine their team the way Russia does. How could any American say they think the government or governing body should be able to take something away from the individual who earned it & simply hand it to someone else? Just because subjectively they believe it is best.

 

 

 

Weighins were an hour long. 7:00-8:00am

[SIACfan]

8 hours ago, IU89 said:

Weighins were an hour long. 7:00-8:00am

 

That makes more sense. I was just going by what the guy in the video above said.